“Do Not Buy A House!” - DO THIS to Build REAL Wealth Instead with Ramit Sethi

Yeah. It's shocking. Yes, it's shocking. And it happens almost every single week. So if I were to just come on here and say 50% of people don't know their household income, most people watching and listening like, that's crazy, how can that be? And then you hear couples week in, week out. When I ask them, I look at their numbers, the ones they assembled for me, and I'll say, did you know that that's how much you made?

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And one or both of them will go, no, they don't know. And the understanding why people don't know their income is actually the heart of understanding how people relate to money. Most of us treat money like we're driving in the fog, and we can only see 50ft ahead of us. And if somebody came along and said, what's five miles down the road?

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You go, I don't know, I'm just trying to make it. And that's how we treat money. We only look at what is happening that month. That's it. That's how narrow our field of vision is. If you are to put it very plainly, if you are living your financial life, gripping your steering wheel, and only thinking, yeah, only a month ahead, you cannot achieve living a rich life.

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In order to live a rich life, you got to zoom out and have a vision, have a big picture, and you can't do that if you don't know your income. Yes. And so do you think part of the reason, like I remember when I was starting out and just getting into my career and, and trying to figure out who I was and pull it all together, and I was deep in debt.

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And I started reading, personal finance books literally changed my life. But the only reason I'm sitting here with you today is you might even have my version of my. Yeah, because I started educating myself. What have you person like? What stops them from picking up the book or from reading it or from engaging with their money, like whether it's individually or as a couple?

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So many things that when you hear it, they finally make perfect sense. One of them is money is complicated. And if we're ever starting off something, whether it be a fitness journey, a relationship journey, any kind of big thing, the terms can be overwhelming. And you look at other people and you go like they know all this stuff that I don't, and where am I even supposed to start?

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But with money, it's ten times worse because there's all these confusing words. And in America, we most of us hate math. I don't even particularly like math myself. So we we sort of wrap money in this mystical language that only some high priest can understand. And the priests usually are older men who don't really look like us. And so we go, I'm not a money person, I'm not good at math.

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And then the final part is we, you know, like, if you haven't gone to a dentist in ten years, how are you going to feel about going the first time, like, you kind of know that you should have been doing it and you feel like you're going to be judged. And that's another thing we hate in America, above all, being judged.

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So guess what? Life still goes on. If you don't read a personal finance book, you're still going to have a roof, probably still going to have internet. So we go to whatever. I'll deal with it later.

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The problem is, time is not on your side,

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and if you actually get aggressive, get proactive. You can use time to your advantage.

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That's why I do what I do. And you're so busy. So this might be a similar answer, but are there any common excuses besides, like, I'm not good at math. Or even if it's, let's say, talking to your mom like excuses that people can tell themselves that we just want to call out, the biggest one in a partnership is, he's the money person.

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He can be shy, but it's usually he's the money person. And there's so many reasons for that. By the way, I have to say, a part of writing this book and doing my podcast, I'm not afraid to, talk about gender issues. And it's unusual for a guy to be talking about gender issues with money, but they are real gender issues, cultural issues.

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That's why we go out of our way to talk to folks who are from all different, diverse backgrounds. What we find is, boys and girls are raised differently with money. But in general, in America, we don't really talk to kids about money. What happens is, as we grow up in any relationship, somebody becomes the dishwasher person.

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I'm going to empty the dishwasher, I'm going to water the plants. I'm going to, get the car. That's normal. I don't mind that everyone's maybe a little bit better at something. The problem is we do it with money, too, and it just kind of falls into place. Oh, and you want me to tell you how it actually plays out?

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When I ask couples, what is your financial role in this relationship? This drives me insane.

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So the the, the men will say, well, she handles the day to day and I make the big decisions. I got. I go, okay, and then I ask another. I said, really? That's so interesting. Wow. I'm so I never heard that one before.

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I go, hey, what is day to day decisions mean? I look at her and she says, you know, I make sure that the bills get paid on time and make sure that the accounts are are set up. Right. And, you know, I said I said, that's playing small, if truthfully, a robot can do that better than you and better than me.

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There is no reason to be spending your time and attention paying bills. My bills are paid automatically, as should everyone's chapter five of my first book. It's all automated. If you if you think that, managing the money day to day is paying the bills, you are playing small. And that's one thing I won't put up with, which is you don't need to play small.

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You actually need to play big with your money. Playing big would be things like, hey, let's sit down for a regular monthly money meeting or what are our four key numbers? Okay. Oh, that number on our savings is, 7%. You know, I think at the end of the year, we should increase it to 8%. Our investments are 8%.

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I think we should increase it to 9%. Those two decisions right there made you hundreds of thousands of dollars, right? They're deciding on all. What kind of russet potatoes can we afford?

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Nobody gives a

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Stop wasting your time on that.

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It's playing small for me. This is what it is. So.

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It's there. So I'm already. I'm already starting to overheat right now. I know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, but it's the. It's okay. Do you think I wear short sleeves and, you know. Okay, so let's say that someone's watching this right now. And first of all, they're loving the energy because it's real time that, if someone's in debt, they have no savings.

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They feel like a failure. Again, whether they're single or in partnership, what is their first step? We know they need to buy or. Yeah, if they're in debt. Yeah. Okay. This is common. I mean, there's all kinds of debt. People are when I talk to them, they're in debt for student loans. They certainly have a mortgage, which is debt.

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Sometimes they have credit card debt. What's interesting is they might have $5,000 of debt, or they might have $250,000 of debt. And they usually feel equally hopeless. That's kind of interesting. Yes, it is like somebody will be talking about these like these, doom and gloom phrases. I'm never going to get out of this. It's never going to.

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Every day I wake up, I look in the mirror and I. I hate the debt that I got myself in. I got how much debt you have? They go $4,800. I look at their. And I'm like, we can knock this out in three months. What? But that's quite interesting, which is because we don't understand money. When most people look at debt, they see a big number and they see a moral judgment.

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Right. And, we have a very strong puritanical strain that runs through America. I am bad if I spend money and we even hear our friends say,

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I've been bad. I was bad last weekend, I like bad. Yeah, I did a good one. I need to be good next month. I need to be good. What the

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is that?

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If if somebody. They always say this to me and, like. Like I remember an interview I went on and she had a very, beautiful coat. And we were talking about, what does she love spend money on? And she said, I love clothes and bags. She had a beautiful bag too. And I said, well, I noticed that bag before we started.

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It's really beautiful. And she kind of got like, embarrassed and I said, can I kind of like, call it the elephant in the room? It seems like you're embarrassed of that bag. Personally, I think it's really beautiful. And she said, well, it's kind of I said, What was that word? It started with the f frivolous.

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You never hear a guy describe his F for 50 that he drives on flat concrete to his insurance company job as frivolous, but somehow, what's frivolous in America? Weddings, bags, clothes, nail all feminine items we never call. Golf clubs, golf clubs or a man cave. You never heard it described like that. Okay. And my point to her was I asked her two things.

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Do you love it? She said, yeah. I said, can you afford it? She said, yeah. I said, then what's the problem? If you love it and you can afford it, fantastic.

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If you're in debt, first thing you know is you're not a morally bad person.

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In fact, you can live a rich life even while you're in debt. But the next thing you do is you have to make a plan. You have to confront your debt. That means you have to open up the envelopes or the emails. You have to figure out how much do you owe. That's what your balance. What's your interest rate?

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Many don't know. And then most importantly, what is your debt payoff date? So you can search, remit, calculator and go and plug in your debt. And it will actually tell you exactly when your debt will be paid off. And what's amazing is if you start to play with that calculator, put an extra hundred dollars in for a mortgage.

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An extra hundred or 200 bucks could shave off years from your debt. Yes, this is not intuitive. So the key thing with debt is you're not a bad person and you can actually make a plan and start paying that debt off. Thank you for saying that because I've heard it so many times from our audience. It's all different ways depending on your established entrepreneurs, the shame around money and the fact is, think like, you know, this was crazy.

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Jersey girl wrote a book called Everything is Big and

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true. Yeah. Meaning, you know, your financial life is certainly bigger. And with someone as detailed and encouraging and no bullshit

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like, you know, giving up the step by steps, it is like so thank you. So

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you talk about the difference being like $3 questions and $30,000 questions, because I feel like I'm starting to tap into a little bit before where it's like, okay, managing the day to day, can we afford the russet potatoes?

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Yeah. Give us some other examples of $3 questions versus $30,000 questions and why it's important, especially if your partner to know what $3 questions that are very common are. I can't believe you spent that much at target. I can't believe you bought more energy drinks at the gas station. Why did you buy that type of candy or those toys?

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The kids already have enough very common. While there is truth to those questions, I just want to be really honest. You could go your entire life arguing about energy drinks and you'll get nowhere. And when I talk to couples, it is so striking. They they have visceral anger and judgment at their partner, and they've been having the same argument for 15, 20 years.

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And, and and then I'll ask them because, you know, I, you know, in order to do my podcast, you need to like a little drama. So I go, I go, so how did I go? How did the conversation start? And I just sit back like this and then it's just, you know, 25 minutes later, I'm like. And then she said, what?

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And then you can see all this on camera, but but what's amazing, at a certain point I've gotten my fill and I go, is this working for either of you? And they go, no. And I go, do you like it? No, I go, so why do you keep doing it? And then they go, I don't know, but I never stop there because that's an easy answer.

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That's just what they say. They're actually on automatic. They don't even know what they're saying. And I go, you must like it because you've been doing it for ten years. You must get something out of it. What is it? And this is where honest answers come out. People will say they think about it. They're quite perceptive. They go, you know what?

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For a moment it lets me feel right. Wow. It it lets me tell them that they were wrong. And in a relationship. I mean, that's painful to hear, but it's also true. Look, in a relationship, sometimes you're like, you annoy me. Yes. And. And then you say it, which. Okay, not everyone's perfect. Fine. But the thing is, with money, you say it once, ten times, 100 times, a thousand times, and soon the only way you talk about money is negative and judgmentally.

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So if we were to invert those things, and instead of worrying about $3 questions, which you could go your whole life, it'll get you nowhere. Oh, coffee. I'm going to agonize over $5 at the coffee shop. And what are you going to do? Where does the money go? How is it actually growing your wealth? Or did you actually just get down into the weeds?

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Because it's easy to talk about? It doesn't require any knowledge like Roth IRA 401 K. It's in front of you. It's ever present, and it makes you feel righteous. $3 questions. Let's now talk about $30,000 questions. $30,000 questions, the one that actually matter. And there's only like 5 or 10 of them. Get those ones right. You can buy all the coffee you want.

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$30,000 questions are what's my savings and investment rate. That's a number. That's a percentage. If you don't know that you're losing hundreds of thousands of dollars. What's my asset allocation? Most people watching has never even heard that phrase. But we sure heard, you're bad because you buy coffee. Waste of time. Asset allocation also worth hundreds of thousands.

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When will my debt be paid off? The exact month and year you need to know that number for your mortgage, car loan, student loan, credit card debt, all of it.

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What is our rich life? Single or in a relationship? You need to know that. What's the vision? And that vision could be. I want to, pick up the kids from school every afternoon.

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It could be. I want to take a six week vacation every year. Whatever. But knowing that is powerful. These are $30,000 questions. And if you just get the 5 or 10 big questions right, never have to worry about how much a turnip costs. I love this, and you know what I love? I love that you give people scripts.

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You've always done this in your work, and I think it is so genius because most of us get tripped up when we get excited. Hearing you talk is like, oh my God, I could do this. Yes yes yes yes yes. But how how do I start to enter these conversations? And I love that you tease this out in the book.

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You know, it's like, oh, should we have you shouldn't. And I love that. You're like, no. So I wanted you to if you can. Break down. Why the nuance of calling out the money conversation is so important. And then I wrote down some examples from your book of good questions for the first meeting. So love this.

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The way we talk about money is quite revealing. We, you know, if you're dating or in a serious relationship, people will be telling their friends like, we need to dig like this. We need to have the money conversation. And I'm like, you know, I'm listening at the table next to them. I don't say this, but in my head, the money comes as if it's one conversation, and then that's it.

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That's all we talk. Like, would you ever say we need to have the kids conversation? No. Or we need to have the elderly parent conversation? No. It's a series of conversations. And in fact, if we're talking about kids or money or anything because you deep down intuitively understand that you're going to have a lot of them, you you probably better find a way to have fun doing it.

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So the way we approach it when we go, oh, like you already failed before you ever said a word. Whereas if we say, hey, Marie, you know what? I'm so excited that we get a chance to talk about what our rich life looks like, and then we get to use our money to actually live it. So I just want to tell you, it makes me feel excited, makes me feel a little nervous.

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But I love knowing that we get to do this together. Yeah. Completely different right then, moral obligation. That sucks. No. When a lot of people see money, they see a spreadsheet and they see some confusing terms and they they see bad. I was bad. When I see money, I see a family trip to Disneyland. I see going out in New York and, springing for an extra round for your friends and taking trips and being safe.

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So we choose how we want to interpret money. Yes. So let's talk about some of these good questions, because I thought this book was, for the first meeting, let's say that you have never talked about money before. And so I'll just read some of these for you about what would it look like if we both felt good about how often would we talk about it?

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What would we do more of less? And this I thought, was so wonderful. What's one thing I can do to help you feel more comfortable talking about money? Thank you, thank you. You know, some answers to those questions would be like, imagine one partner, the probably the one who bought money for couples. They ask and they're and then their partner goes, you know, I never thought about that.

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Gosh, it would really help if when you bring up money, it's not 10 p.m. while we're going to sleep, because it makes me really anxious. And I just honestly, I just don't want to talk about it, then that's honest. And because you have opened the door by saying, what can I do to support you, your partner, you actually given them the space to be honest.

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And when they give you that, receive it well. Oh thank you. I never thought about that, but I can totally see that. Let's find a time to do it in the morning. That's better for us. Yes. Connection that. So notice that those questions are not like, what's the debt payoff? And, like, why did you choose this particular investment strategy?

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No, that's way too detailed. That's in the weeds. This is like, how can I support you? And and also here's a couple ways you can support me. We start there. We build that bond. And then way down the road we get into the numbers. Yes. So just to recap everyone, it's not the money conversations. There's going to be many.

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Yeah very regular and there's very helpful scripts. I know I've been I feel like about them I don't mean to like it's a billion.

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about people in their freedom and money. And I read a lot. And when I come across the circle, I do thank you. So let's say one partner in this, partner is a spender.

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What do you think? He sighs. And again, we got some scripts. Are there any first steps to help them stop fighting so they can get on the same? Yeah. So of course there's scripts and conversations, but actually a lot of it is structural. Now, if I were to ask you or if I would ask anybody, okay, you're in a serious relationship, maybe you're, coupled or married.

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You think you should live in the same place? What would you say, Marie? Live in the same house? Yeah. Most of the time. Not all the time. How about in your case? In my case, they're together probably 80% of the time. Yeah. So you live in the same apartment, right? And because you've been together for so long years.

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Are you serious? Whoa. Hold on. That's congratulations to each other when this happened. But, yeah, that's okay. So if I asked you, should you and Josh be in the same apartment? What would you say? Yes. Yeah. Of course. Like, it's a natural thing. And yet, with money, most of us do not align ourselves in the same structural way.

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Like if my wife and I lived in two different apartments, I guess we could do it. But it just makes things a lot more complicated. So we live in the same place and we have our money in the same place. If you have a spender and a saver, guess what? That's okay. You could still make it work, but one of the things you do is, in chapter nine, I show you how to set your accounts up.

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And the simplest way is a really simple way. You keep your money comes together in a joint checking account, and you pay your joint bills, etc. you have joint savings. And one key thing is that you have some money flow to your guilt free spending area. That would be things like going out to dinner together, taking a trip together.

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But you also have some money sent to your individual guilt free spending accounts. So let's say we have a spender who likes to, spend money on self-care or clothes or travel, whatever they have. Now, let's just say 500 bucks a month. Now, the other person might have 500 bucks a month, too, and they prefer to save a little bit of it.

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They save 400 of that every month. That's totally up to them. This money is individual. It's guilt free, no questions asked.

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So if your partner wants to spend it on X and you don't agree, shut your mouth.

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It's not your money, it's their money. If they want to save it and accumulate it, God bless. It's up to you.

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In fact, you actually should not even have access to their accounts. You should know it. You should know about. There's no secrets, but these are important, especially for historical reasons. For each partner to have their own individual money in their own individual account. That's how you can resolve that. I, you know, answer this. And it's interesting. And I remember it like, fire me up your sky where there is like peaceful streets.

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And rolling peaceful never went and never won or it's just like I knew this but she knew it was like her next step to growth. And she's like my husband. But I don't have access to any money. And I remember at that particular year, like months when my head was totally this was nuts. And, I love that.

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And I want to share this too, because I think that's why this book is so important, is because it's such an important part of a harmonious relationship, like Josh and I. So he was married previously. We're we're still not, like, technically married, but I'm sure because we've been together so long in New York, I mean, like, a lot, but, you know, we had many conversations early on because it was very important.

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I could see and feel that peace to him is super expensive and super painful emotionally and every which way. And when we got together, I was like, I don't want you for money, dude. You totally. That's not where I come from. And so we have a divorce and just to share, like, there's so many different ways. Yeah. You know, we, we share joint expenses, but other than that, we have completely separate accounts.

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But we talk about money, and we're always looking at, like, where do we want to make adjustments? And this is the thing I'm super grateful for is that we have similar money values. Yes. Like we enjoy spending on the same things. We think, you know, the stuff that matters to us is aligned and the stuff that we're like, that's not bullshit,

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you know what I mean?

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Like, we don't care about, and it's really it's really, really, really worked for us, especially because he's an actor. He's in such a different industry, running my own business. And I just think that this can be such a source of name. But for us, it's, you know, money is such a source of freedom. Wow. That that last part especially is really the culmination of it.

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It's not a source of pain. Division, a wedge between us, but actually a source of joy, connection, possibility. And that's so great for you to say so that everybody can hear it. For so many of us, money has only been a source of stress since we were kids. We heard mom and dad saying, you know, we can't afford it, or money doesn't grow on trees.

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We don't talk about money in this family and we just grow up believing it. But to actually hear examples where the money's actually fun? Yeah, yeah, I had to learn a bunch, but it's amazing. And it allows us to travel to do this, to feel safe, to, go out and splurge on a certain meal, or we can get there even if we see money differently.

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And Josh and I, even though we, we share values on it. I'm also, it's fun because I know he has you know, we all have such unique stories in terms of our upbringing. Yeah, most of us are the same thing. We grew up in an artist kind of household where it was like starving artist. Oh yeah, a sense of pride where if you made great money.

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Yes. Like and but you're like the opposite. Wow. A lot of fun with that. And it's, it's cool because I'll, you know, I'm always pushing up that. Okay. Let's talk about your accounts that talk about, like, we came out to I love that just to share that, that it's like so possible. Yeah. And all the tools that you're giving people can help them get to that place where it is.

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So, you know, my wife and I had.

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Very different money philosophies as well. Like we. So we grew up pretty similarly. Both of our moms were teachers and we both grew up middle class in suburban California. We met here in New York. And as we started to get more serious, she there was a point where she asked me about like, hey, she said to me, hey, I have shared my financial situation, but you haven't shared yours.

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And that doesn't feel fair. That was a big mess up on my part. Like I violated my own freakin rules. And so I was like, oh, man. So we we talked about money, and I shared numbers like I had never shared with anybody before. And, and we started having these conversations, but they were informed by such a different life experience.

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At the time that I met her, I was running my business. I will teach you to be rich. I've been running it for like 10 or 15 years. I thought about money every single day. You know, that's what I do for a living. And she was working at a corporate job and her relationship with money was different than mine.

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And so we started talking about it, but it it became more complex as we started to, have serious conversations about getting married. We discussed a prenup, then we got married and blended our finances. And it had, I will say, part of the reason for for writing the book was it was pretty difficult, and I knew it was difficult for me.

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It's really difficult for other people because just first of all, just loving each other does not translate into work financially harmonious. Even having money does not translate into, oh, it's all good. No, I talked to a lot of people who have a lot of money, and they argue over money because they see it differently. They don't value the same things.

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What usually one person is the money person and the other feels disempowered. Why do I have to ask them for money? I don't want to ask for permission. And so really working through all of those issues and more, seeing a therapist, talking to other couples, folks on the podcast, that all translated into giving people these specific strategies word for word scripts.

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But I'll just say, like having gone through it and I appreciate your stories as well. Money is on all of our minds, especially behind closed doors, and nobody's shining a light on it. And that's my favorite thing in the world to shine a light on those secret topics. Yeah. And it's been it changes over time, you know, like I'm on stage right now with like my my parents are getting much older and they even though they don't have to they did not set things up.

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You know what I mean. Yeah. Having to just clean up. It's like it's so important to keep revisiting these conversations because you were talking about it before, kind of move on. It's like, where are we starting with business versus when you start with your neighbor, your value? Yeah. How am I really want to spend my time right now?

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You start seeing the clock ticking down in a way that you didn't really have awareness of before. And to be able to not only be really introspective and thoughtful and intentional for yourself to keep the person that you love the most in the world on the same page as things shift and change. Yeah. It's important. Yeah. Let's talk about something that you've always done so much.

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Is this notion, this concept of invisible spreads and they're often what shape they are. They do shape our money. Psychology. What are some examples of invisible spreads and what's next that we take to start with like an invisible script, is a belief that we hold so deeply that we don't even realize we have it. It's invisible to us.

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Two of the most common invisible scripts in America are, you should go to college and you should buy a house. Now, they might be true for some people, for others not. But when I raise the question, hey,

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do you need to buy a house? What if you didn't? People look at me like, I see the sky is green.

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And the truth is, you don't need to buy a house. And that's one of the pieces of my work. Is for the major purchases in your life. You really better run the numbers. In my case, living in New York and LA, I've run the numbers. It makes no financial sense to buy. My wife and I rent by choice.

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And when people hear that, they're like, what the what? And really what it is in America, we we deep down believe that renting is for poor people. And owning is what you do when you have money. So when they hear somebody who has money, who chooses to rent, they are befuddled, perplexed. What? I mean, if you don't believe me, just call up your suburban parents to this text and say, hey, mom.

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Hey, dad. Have you ever thought of taking the bus? Next time you want to go to the restaurant, just see their reaction. Trust me, it will not be a normal, reaction. Like, oh, I actually prefer my own single car. No, they're going to be like, the bus. Because in America, we don't want to do what we think poor people do.

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I

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love the bus. It's great. But the point is, these invisible scripts are so deep to us that we don't even realize it. And what if you were freed from the idea that you have to buy a house? I'm not saying it's the right or wrong decision. You should run the numbers and decide yourself. But what if you realize, oh my God, all this guilt and shame I feel for not owning a house?

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All this money. I've been, like, thinking we need to put it into a house. And then I ask you three questions. Why? Equity? Why? Well, I don't want to pay my landlords rent. Why? You don't say that when you go to the sushi owner's restaurant. I want to pay my sushi on the restaurants list. What?

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What if you actually interrogated these beliefs and started to say, is this right for me? Do I or do my children need to go to college? Maybe. Maybe not. Let's explore. Do I need to work this many hours? Because. Or when I'm sitting at home watching Netflix, why do I feel guilty all the time? Do I need to constantly be working?

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That's an invisible script we often have. What about for you? What are some invisible scripts? I love this, I love this so much because I feel like a big part of my life has been trying to ask myself this question, and what it's so cool is, I feel like some of my counselors who tell me really exciting.

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So one of the invisible scripts, and I'm so grateful that my so, you know, that whole song like Shakira, like the hits don't like, yeah, You Like my Body. Yeah. So one of the invisible scripts, I think specifically. And I want to ask a little bit about, women to get there. Was that. Oh, you're supposed to have kids.

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One of the biggest in America. Yes, that it was not my cat. Yeah. Having, like, you know, I have a 30 year old stepson. You know, I got him when he was in high. Love myself or something. But I've always known I was not like. So that is one. Yeah. I think the other one was around him.

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Josh? Excuse me. Yeah. Two years. Right. But I was like, I don't know if that script was always going to be there or if it might shift or change, but I'm so open. But in my life, just out of observation, anything that I truly wanted that's felt aligned for me, for who this individual being is, I find myself magnetically moving towards it or going like sometimes stumbling and scraping.

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Yeah, I get it because it feels like that's for me. And the one that I will tell you that is has been kind of more recently, something that's super up. This is released to money. It was probably less than ten years ago. Now I got some financial news that to my mind, did you know was that I've been working.

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Yeah. And I will tell you, the script is so deep about work. Right? Must work. I'm adding value if I work. Yeah. Just all of these different things. Yeah. Like have been absorbed from culture. And it's just recently that I'm even beginning to feel comfortable with generating within. Yes, any of this resonates, but it's just like, well, just watching my own programing starting to, to to melt.

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Well, I have to say, I mean, what a fascinating topic. First of all, you have always to me seem like you are very at ease with your decisions, and your decisions are not like, I'm going to have red jellybeans versus blue. You made big, big decisions in your life that are quite counter intuitive for most people. And you didn't slip into it like I know because we've known each other a long time.

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You were very methodical, thoughtful and, careful about them. And that sense of ease is, is is what I love to see. It's like somebody who made their decision, whatever that decision was, they want to have eight kids or no kids. Cool. How do you think about it? Oh, it's right for you. You really wanted it. Amazing. And you can just feel it.

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You can sense it. So I totally appreciate that. Yeah. And I just, I but I love this notion that there's so invisible, there's so deep and just having the courage of these. And now people will kind of rail. Oh yeah. Podcasts for social or whatever. Like what are you talking about? Totally. Can we not just be courageous enough to just investigate, just get curious.

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Well, what would that phrase like for me? And then I want to hear everything. Yeah. It was like I remember when they're like, okay, we don't have to work. That does not compute. Like, yeah. And it's taken me a few years to thought of that. And in recent times I've really been able and this feels like a growth edge, being able to strip away my sense of like, duty.

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And I do this, and I take care and I serve and I carry from, like, what's truly pleasurable

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I think you're saying something very profound, which is sometimes, in order to understand our own invisible scripts, we have to go somewhere else. And it could be physically.

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It could be spiritually sometimes. That's why people go to church or temple or Gurudwara and just go away from our normal routines in order to realize, oh, I'm still a good person if I'm not working all the time or whatever else for me, I think about invisible scripts that are gendered, that are cultural, culturally. It's, you need to like all education is good.

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You need to go to elite education, okay? And that can be a good script. Invisible scripts can be good and bad. I, I took that one. It worked for me. I love education, I did it, you need to get a nice stable job. No. Thank you. It wasn't for me. I once got advice from somebody. If you, work at Procter and Gamble for 30 years, you can retire with over $1 million in your retirement account.

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I was like, that's it. That was literally I was my first year. I was so young. What a cocky answer. But also kind of revealing. And then, you know, when I grew up, we didn't use the word protein in my family. Like, literally, we didn't use that word. You know, you go out to restaurants, you're like, what protein do you want?

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I'm like, We didn't talk about fitness. It wasn't part of our cultural upbringing. And that was really hard because it took me until my, like mid 20s to decide I want to change my fitness. And that actually was so. It was so hard because I had to unwind so many beliefs. I'm just this skinny Indian guy and on and all these beliefs that are so deep.

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I'm not just the same as many people say. I'm not good at math. That's why I have so much compassion, because I did it myself. I think, from a male perspective, I have the same invisible script in Almost Every Man in America does, which is, I'm a I'm the provider toxic, toxic

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belief. Because, first of all, nowadays there's a lot of women earning more than men.

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So I talk to men and women on my podcast, and sometimes she's earning more than he is. And I, I ask him, I say, in this relationship, what is your role? He goes on the provider. I go, well, obviously that's not true because she's making more than you. So if you're not the provider, who are you? And he looks stumped.

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This happens repeatedly. And I think that's a cultural failing where we tell men your job is to work and provide, which is okay, but what else? What else do men do? This is why you typically see men in their 40s. They start talking about things like a man cave. It's actually quite a signal to me, and a dangerous one, which is the more that men get older, when I, they they retreat, they become insular, they lose their friendships.

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Like, you don't hear guys going on guys trips for. No, it doesn't happen, right? Unless it's a bachelor party. It doesn't happen. And sometimes when I ask them, what do you like to spend money on? I'll ask the guy. He goes, well, whatever my wife likes, happy wife, happy life. We've heard that. I hate that phrase.

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I go, I didn't ask about your wife. I'll ask her in a second, but I'm asking you. He goes, you know, whatever for the family. Make sure that everybody's happy. I said, not the family. You many men have lost themselves by the time they're in their 40s. And I could see it happening to myself, too. I could see how difficult it is to maintain friendships.

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How difficult is to make new friends, to even spend time together. And then I end up ten years from now on a

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La-Z-Boy recliner in a man cave. No

‍

way. So I'm fighting against that invisible script, and I. I urge every man to fight against that invisible script you can provide. But you are more than just a provider.

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It's like expanding beyond. Yes, it's blossoming outside. Yes. Kind of narrow lanes that you think that, curious. Okay. What's one money script or life script? And I know you just circled around one. Maybe that you had to break through, whether it was at the beginning of your journey or, I think more interestingly, like in the last one.

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Oh, wow, what a question. I have a theme for my 40s, and it changed. It changed everything. Let me tell you how it came about. So, I was doing my Netflix show and the show was coming out, and I wanted to have a PR firm rep me, and I didn't want the PR firms that I've worked with in the past.

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I wanted a Hollywood PR firm because I wanted to expand. And there are certain things they know that others don't. So I made my list and I identified the best firms, and I wrote them an email, each of them, and it was a good email. I have a show coming out on a major streaming network, etc., etc. etc. and I just waited.

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And I wait like one hour. Usually they're fast, I wait one day, I wait two three days. Nobody. They won't contact me back. They basically don't take over the, wall inquiries, even from somebody who is very credible. And I realize I was playing a different game, and I went to these agents who had tried to represent me, and I, I wasn't interested in having agents.

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I since I've been in my 20s, I've bootstrapped everything. I did it myself. I notoriously do not like middlemen. And so the agency had tried to rep me. I said, no thanks. I went back to this agency humbled, and I said, look, I know that you don't rep me, but I need a favor. I've reached out to these five firms.

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None of them will reply. Can you help me get connected? And she writes back. She goes, give me 24 hours. 24 hours later, I get emails from pretty much all of them. The CEOs. Hey, we'd love to hop on a call with you. And at that moment I realize I am playing a different game. I'm not playing the same game, even at the level where I've had a New York Times bestseller, I've had all these business success, but I'm in a different level, and at that level you need to humble yourself and you need to get help.

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So the theme of my 40s is to be collaborative, and that sounds kind of like, oh, just a word. No, actually I was not that collaborative. For the last 20 years. I wrote my book, I Built My Business. It's bootstrapped. I own 100% of it. Great. I did well, I'm happy. But in order to get to the next level, I need the help of people to learn things I don't know.

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And to even just get in the right doors. So. So I actually went back to that agency, signed with them because I was like, wow, I get I get what you do and I'm willing to give up a little piece of the pie in order to learn from you. That has been a huge restructuring of my brain in my 40s.

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This is so wild. I can't even cycle this part more. But like that has been a script that has been admiring itself. Me too. Yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, I was out of business. I remember even, like years ago, friends of me that are much older business advice and they're like, well, I can just give me. And I'm like, no.

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Yeah, it's like a point of pride. But then it's like at a certain point, I love that. Thank you for sharing that, because it is it's huge. And by the way, I'm saying say because I know your email writing skills, you write some damn good. Thank you. I love that you're like,

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just crickets. I need some help.

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Yeah.

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let's talk now. We talked about Netflix. I'm going to go here next. So when I was watching How to Get Rich, I was so happy. I know I texted you. I was just, like, sitting. I binge the whole thank you sitting, watching with my, my popcorn. I'm just I just like, go.

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And I have to say, because I know you so well, I was also really fast with how, like, you're such a compassionate person and you're like, we're both very fiery and I love that you are like a no bullshit

‍

person.

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I would like to, as I probably pulled out some life skills I don't think I've ever seen. You have. Thank you. With people, because it's so vulnerable to the outcome that these folks are showing up and they're inviting you in to arguably the most intimate part of their life. That's not sexual in nature. Yeah, I be so embarrassing.

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Did you do any work for yourself to, like, tamp down your like, no, like me was like a badass. Yeah, I did, I did, and you, you recognize it? Of course. Of course. You you're so attuned to this. So I knew, months before when it became clear this is going to happen. Then I really shifted into gear first of all, during the negotiations, this was happening during Covid and they were taking they were like, really stretching on for a long time.

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But I was like, take all the time you want because I need to fix my website and I'm going to get I'm going to get an even better shape. So like, no rush, no rush. So when it finally became clear, okay, this train is taking off, that's when I shifted into high gear. So there were there are few areas that I really wanted to dial in.

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And my philosophy was, I like to rest, I like to recuperate. I watch a lot of TV. I just sit there. I never feel guilty. But the way that I interpret that is I'm recuperating and preparing so that when the world calls me, I'm ready and I want it to be ready when it's recorded, that's it. That's it's there forever.

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So better look sound, feel good. So one thing I did, my wife is a personal stylist. We went out and got, you know, she fully styled me. And part of it was quite complex because she, she had to do a lot of work. She had to identify what cities am I going to be in? Guess what?

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I'm going to dress differently in New York than an hour outside of Philadelphia. I'm going to dress differently because I run hot. Look at this body hair. We got to make up for it. Yeah. And. And then also, I did not want to come across as some freaking, ill fitting, suit wearing financial advisor. That's not me. So there's that.

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The, So she helped me with style fitness. I set a goal, worked with a trainer, got pretty dialed in for that. And then, then then the big one that I wanted to work on as well was people skills. And so I, I've worked with a lot of people, but you have to know when to humble yourself and realize you're playing at a bigger level.

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We both know this. So I went to a media training firm. I've worked with them before like ten, 15 years prior. And I said, I have a show. These are the specific things I want to know. Can you give me somebody in TV? They found me a former, TV producer. I went in, he had his laptop, he started giving me this presentation, and I said, hey, I don't mean to interrupt, but I have 13 questions that I want answered.

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I've seen this. I know this stuff, I need this. You should have seen the look on his face. He closes his computer and he smiles. Because a teacher loves to see a student who comes ready to learn, and that it's not just about finding the best instructor or the best course. It's about you. Look in the mirror and ask, am I the best student?

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I came prepared, I was ready, so one question I had was what happens if somebody cries? What the hell am I supposed to do? I'm not. It's not intuitive for me. I know you're like this psycho, but it's like, it's one thing if your friend cries, but it's another thing if somebody cries. And there's three cameras recording in 4K.

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And what if I don't know them? And what if it's a woman and her husband is there? There's a lot of you and there's a freaking dog. There's a it's a lot of issues. I go, I'm not trying to figure this out on the fly. I want to prepare and train ahead of time. So there's some really interesting things I learned.

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And I'll take. One of the tips I got was, went remote. When you go to meet people in their home, when they open the door, they're wearing the best clothes they own. Their house is the cleanest it's ever been. And when you're walking through their home, just take a second and appreciate it. Right. Ask them. Oh, that's that's a really cool piece of art.

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Or wow, that's like, how do you make your coffee? Now we all know this. We know that when we go to somebody's house, maybe you take them a little gift or you ask, we know that. But when you have a whole camera crew, audio gear producers in the garage, you forget. You start to think, I'm just here to do my thing on no thing that I took away that the older we get, the more I remember is just people connect with humans.

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They connect with people. So somebody who comes in shakes the little kids hand, walks around, wow, beautiful backyard and asks real questions. They're actually going to open up way more. You did it. So like I that's why I was cheering because again, your money invites your strategies. All of that has always been next level. Thank you. I saw and it's not even performance is actually not even the right word.

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Your being and the presence show I was like like that I want to throw up. Thank you. That means a lot from you. It does. It was, it was. And again, you've always been amazing but it was super, super next level. And I just also the lesson you all like we're missing doing what he's been doing for so long.

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So many courses, so many shows, so many YouTube videos, so many social media videos. And this notion of humbling ourselves. What? Don't. Yeah. Where am I not practice? Yeah. Where where do I need more skills and just read it over. Okay. And this was my my question for you. Like did you pursue it. Was your was it your idea where you like.

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No. They came to you okay. So I'll tell you how Netflix came about. It was Covid and I got an email that that said, subject line was something like interest in Netflix. And it said, hi, you know, I work at Netflix and, do you have any representation? And have you considered, you know, doing something? We'd love to talk.

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So first of all, this was like a true holy

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moment. Like I look at the screen and you, you can kind of like, see, the blood is only going to your eyes. Everything else goes dark. And then my next thing was I was like, what's representation like? What does that even mean? I don't know, this. I'm I'm like an internet guy.

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So I remember I took the email to my wife and my natural tendency is just in general saying no, like in general, for certain things I'm just like, nah. So I'm kind of like, oh, I forgot. I didn't believe the email. I was like, this is like some ambulance chaser producer in Hollywood. No, I looked at I double click the from and it was@netflix.com.

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That's when I was like, Holy

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Because the only Netflix emails I get are what's coming out new on Friday. So I took it to my wife and I was I was kind of like, this is so crazy. But like, you know, I probably wouldn't do that. That was my first instinct. My invisible script was almost I'm an internet guy.

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I'm not a TV guy. So crazy to think about that. And her instinct was so different. She goes, oh, would you do it? I think you're ready. And now, looking back, what a moment where she saw more in me than even I saw in myself. And just that question is like it unlocks something in my brain. And I started thinking.

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And it just the thoughts come fast. I go, wow, I've been doing this at the time. I've been doing my business for something like 18 years. Like I've said, I have my philosophies on money and they have been battle tested. Literally millions of people have looked at it, critiqued me, said all this crazy

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online, all these trolls.

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I go, come on, keep it coming. What do you got? Let's make my arguments better. And I. And then I know the internet. I've done courses, books. What's next? What's and how do I bring this rich life concept to more and more people? And so that was how it began. I got on a call with them and, they were they were very nice that everyone in Hollywood is so nice.

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And of course, they blow you up. Oh, you're a visionary. This and that. And, they, I was like, how did you guys even hear about me? And they were like, oh, we have this person in the office. And he he's like, giving your book to everyone. And the guy, I guess was pretty senior. And I was like, let me stop you right there.

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Whatever the deal we were going to do is the price just went up quadruple. And they laughed. But I was like, I'm not laughing. So anyway, that's how we started the deal process. And then it. Yeah. You did such an impressive. Yeah. Thank you. It's really if you haven't seen it on Netflix, go watch it. It's fantastic. What's more about like the online business aspect?

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Because we both been doing this for a very long time. Like anything recent from you, how to actually run your business, like batching content, team size. I know for me, in an hour where my soul is wanting to go is I like of Things being really mean. Like I've done the version of, you know, 40 people in full time and all that and that was amazing and wonderful and I'm just not interested.

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Yeah. So I'm just curious. Anything that's working for you right now, like your stuff always is so high quality. Oh, thanks. Thank you. Thank you. Out of the smoke up your ass, you know? Yeah. So anything that you want. Yeah. I think, two, two things are really interesting right now. The fastest growing part of our business is YouTube.

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And, you know, friends had told me, like, you got to get on YouTube, basically, like I said, my instinct is kind of to say no at first. And I don't really like being first mover, but I listen. So they years ago they were like, you got to get a podcast, you got a good podcast. You told me that for years because we have similar friends.

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And I was like, I don't have an idea. And I waited patiently for about eight years and then launched the podcast and then when it launched, I was like, this is it. Like, I know this is good, and it was good, and it took off. YouTube friends kept telling me YouTube, YouTube, and I just wasn't ready.

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And then finally I saw what was going on. I really sat down and looked at other folks. And, you know, I discovered stuff that I didn't know, like people are watching it on their TVs at home. I'm like, what? And then like, people are watching it on their phones. Again, I'm like a aging millennial. So I was like,

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What? How do you do that? And they're swiping. I go, what the

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So I was behind the times. I, sat down and I decided, okay, this is this is the future. This is where it's going. How do I give myself an unfair advantage? Because I don't know, YouTube. YouTube, I realize, is its own world, has its own language and technology system constantly changing.

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Yes. So, found, a small team, outsourced some of it. Some of it is in-house. At this point, we do two videos a week. Tuesday is the podcast. The video podcast. Thursday is the YouTube specific. Such an interesting thing. There's so many interesting things we learn from it. So our podcast tends to be 70% women. The Thursday episodes are 70% men.

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Yes, shocking. Which I kind of love. It's so different. My my entire business used to be very male oriented, and I love that we have really tapped. And money is not just for men or women, it's for all of us, but in different ways. And I love being able to blend those two, be fluid, talk about these topics.

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So I think that's good. Areas that I have not mastered yet. TikTok. I'm like very much learning. I try it, then I kind of like back off. I leave it for two months. But it's it's coming for sure. It's coming. I know that it's on my radar. I'm just, you know, when you start trying something new and you're just dabbling and it kind of goes one step forward, two steps back, that's me.

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But you also know when you're like, okay, I'm in, I'm going to learn Spanish. Something clicks and you're like, this is I'm going all in. I'm not there yet, but I think you can feel it when you are. Yeah, 100%. How are you? Like one of the things we're having a lot that I'm having a lot of fun with and that just feels like, oh my gosh, we're at the precipice of a whole new world in terms of AI.

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Yeah.

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Sometimes I go down. Such amazing. I was only for Jesus. Yeah, in terms of agents and all that filled out. Has like on our team. It's interesting to for me to witness like who is afraid of it. Yeah. Like who was like super curious, you know, and just playing around with the different there's obviously it's been embedded in so much of our technology for years now.

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But in terms of the speed of development of things like agents and the capabilities, it's just like it's astonishing. A couple of things so that I'll share that have worked really well for us. I asked ChatGPT to find every example of when somebody cried on my podcast because I was curious. It found him. I said, give me the time stamp and give me a one sentence description of what was happening and rank them in order of descending intensity.

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I know, of course, I'm like a psycho with my prompting, but, it was shocking. And truthfully, it would have taken an editor like dozens of hours to find that if found this in three minutes. So that was astonishing. And what that allows us to do is now when I'm making a point, I can quickly cut to 2 or 3 prior examples and there's nothing better than seeing it.

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So I'll go, 50% of people do not know their household income. Take a look. Boom boom boom. Found that in two minutes. So that's one. We can we're starting to be able to, you know, create our own little private space and upload our stuff. So now you when you if we're using an example, we know it's been vetted because I wrote it.

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Yes. That's really important. Reputation is everything. I don't want somebody going out there in some email, and getting an email that says, you know, you can make 40% returns. It's ridiculous. I would never say that. So that's, that's important. I want to share an example. One of my friends did this. He created his private GPT, and he works with, a mentor of mine, Jay Abraham, and he took all of Jay's work and uploaded it.

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And now he asks his Jay Abraham GPT like he'll say, here's a transcript of my last sales call. Tell me the two things that went well. But tell me five things I can do to improve it. And in Jay's words, it will come out so I can imagine them, you know, uploading or referencing a mentor of theirs, maybe Marie Forleo.

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And she didn't say that. Really. She's the time. You know, I ask you sometimes in chapter I'm like, yeah, that's awesome. Like exactly. I was like, dude, if I can provide. And I've also been playing with it so much, wanting to create some things that where I'm getting such incredible responses. Yeah. Oh yes. You are my one on one client.

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Here are the kind of things I would want to know about you anyway. Wait, how do you. Okay, so what's what is the most, deranged example of GPT that you use? I'll give you one while you're thinking of it, because, you know, I got to get. So, I get a lot of these trolls who write me.

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And as you remember, I engage with every single one of them. I love it. It's like I'll never. I'll never stop answering them. So, you know, one of the things I say is, buying is not always the best decision. Buying a house, sometimes renting is better. This infuriates people because they think that they always accuse me of being a secret landlord.

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I'm like, you

‍

think that I'm going around to your house with a plunger so I can make $125 net per month. You really think remits that? He wants to own two property? No, I'm not a landlord. I own no property. So anyway, they I go, you understand that, in every in 100% of the top 50 metro cities in America, it is currently cheaper to rent than to own.

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Again, they think I'm lying. I'm like, look at a chart. They don't know how to look at a chart. So then I said, the only way to really drive this in again, why am I doing this? I have no idea. But I said the only way to really drive it in is to show them an exact address, where if you look at the rental price and the to own price, it is vastly different.

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For example, cities like Manhattan, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, it exhibits this. It will be like a multimillion dollar house, and you can rent it for like 5KA month. So I had ChatGPT. I said, find me this, these addresses within this area with this specific criteria. And it found it. I was like,

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I love you. I know it's if my new best friend.

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Totally. Now if you're not as psycho as that, you're probably not going to use it for that. But gosh, I'm I'm seeing people use it for, like, relationship questions. Really powerful. How do I how do I stay connected to my friends? Oh, I'm going out and I don't want to drink. What are some other things I can do with my friends on a weekend?

‍

So many cool examples. I was bored one night and like, Joshua was away. He's looking at some of their city, and I was, about to go to my best friend Chris's house, and we could, like, just fantasize was this is what it is? And I was like, well, especially her and I were like, okay, we just going to hang out your house?

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Connecticut. And we want to, like, crack this vegan tomato vest because my best friend is a vegan. I'm not a vegan. But when I'm with her, I'm like, dude, we're good. Yeah, all the way around. And like, I'm talking to my ChatGPT and I'm just having a ball. I'm in my house doing stupid

‍

like listening to 90s playlists.

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So you know what I mean? Like getting packing up my socks on the best day. And I was like, let me see if I can have a chat helping crack a recipe. Oh, so I had taken a picture of this, like farm stand tomato vegan fest that we had had at my place in SAG Harbor. I uploaded it, I said, can you help me reverse engineer this recipe?

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Whoa. Tomorrow not only was my chat asking me like was like, well, what are you doing right now? And like, it

‍

get work. But it was funny. It asked you that why is yours friendlier than mine? So friendly? Ask me. Like, how did you. Did you tell it like you're nice? Because I was like, don't talk to me unless I ask.

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Like, don't even respond to me. Ever. Just get to the point. Oh, this explains so much. Okay. It was like I was having a conversation telling about the play with me. I was like, what world am I in? And then it. But I asked, it sort of help me reverse engineer a potential recipe. Yeah, just based off of the ingredient list.

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It nailed it. Really. And I made the recipe the next day. It wasn't perfect. Got it. Like I would say like 90% close. Wow. And and I went and re-uploaded the proof that we made it. It was I was that's really cool. It used it like from a troll business sense. But I've used it in person. No I love that.

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Yeah. And just and it's the fact that I was making jokes. I think I was actually asking it something around here we're having this conversation. Just remember to go about like, I've just been kind of unwinding some of my visible scraps around work, and it made some joke about me disappearing into the Italian countryside and told me it was like, let's be real, that would be iconic.

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And I was like, whoa. It's funny as.

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That's pretty cool. Yeah. So okay, so so now you've gotten your little hit. Everybody off. How are they are playing differently? Yeah. Another question. What's one business or personal decision you made in the last year that dramatically leveled up your life, and that you wish more people to know about it? I think I have finally embraced, delegation.

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Really? Yes. We've seen you is such an amazing delegator. So maybe you've hit a new level? I think so. Well, you know, I have I'm in a CEO council with a few other CEOs and many of them run B2B businesses. They're not personalities, etc. and the, the it's funny, one of them said, I'm so jealous of a couple of you guys, including me, because you guys really love your businesses.

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Like it's who you are. It's your baby. And then a lot of the a lot of those folks were like, well, we're jealous of you because you have just like, a super calm, systematized business. It's just business. And so the grass is always greener. But it got me thinking. And my business was, you know, it always goes in waves.

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I've had my business this year will be 21 years and over time it grows, shrinks, you reconfigure it, certain parts of the business grow and others die. That's normal. Everyone talks about delegate, etc. delegate is not just, give them a little bit of authority. When I say fully embrace it. Delegation means you own the PNL. The profit and loss you make the calls.

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Here's the numbers to hit. We're going to agree on them jointly. And here we're going to make a list of how I am allowed to be involved. How I'm not like, I'm not attending project management meetings and they don't want me there anyway. And, these are the only things you have to check with me before you do, but otherwise, good luck that really change things, that really change it.

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And it was uncomfortable. It took me a long time to get there because I think all of us CEOs, we you know, especially if you're a founder CEO, you have intuition that others cannot have. You've done you have certain some ineffable thing that you can't put into an SOP. You just know what's right for folks like us. And we do have folks like us listening right now when your name is the front of it, totally on the front, there is a different level than when you're selling it or not.

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And that's such an amazing step. I missed the other day. I was proud of myself. It was a similar thing. You're way more systematic than I am. But, one of my books, they were like, okay, we've got like this, you know, essentially a 70 page Google doc of so many of the things I've written before, you know, 40 kind of structured interview flow.

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And said, do you want to review it. And like I literally checked in, you know, it's like no. Yes. Wait. That's a big deal. Because five years ago it would have been like yeah all Saturday night I'll be awake doing it. Correct. Yeah. And I was like, you're super smart. Yeah. I've literally rewritten these things off. Good.

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Jillian totally just likes them, you know, God bless, chat and smart and to me, like, but this is all my stuff. Yeah. And then my director left. I'm like, about two smart people. You guys can check. Yeah. And it's actually better for them. Yeah. It's disempower. This is nothing new to anybody, but it's just empowering for smart people to constantly have their boss checking over everything.

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Check. Major strategic decisions. Yes, checking over freaking email copy on line 16. No, there's a larger problem there, but it's almost always the founders problem. Like, I was just going to say, yeah, it's our problem. Biggest problem hack and I and I also offer to and I felt good about this because I know as a creator I have the energy and to sometimes I do need a bounce off meaning like I've created something new.

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Yeah. And I want someone to just like, this is

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totally what I just write. Is this crazy? How is this going to like, you know, it's like, if I showed it to you, be like, yes, Marie pissed off about people that you know. Yeah. Right ways. So I offer to this particular team member, like, look, if you need like the jet bounce off because this is a highly important decision and you just want to run it fast.

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Somebody and you know, my instincts are good. Bring it to me. But otherwise it's like, yeah, go for it. So I love this. All right okay. I keep going because I want to talk to you. But, here are some questions that our audience of mostly ambitious, creative, entrepreneurial humans are certainly great. How do we make consistent, reliable income in the online business world feel so predictable?

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So they're seeing declines in their launches? There seems so much economic shakiness. I am wondering actually what works.

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Great question. Okay, so the the response that a lot of people want is, use this channel. You should go on TikTok. That's not the correct answer. Maybe it's TikTok, maybe it's YouTube. There are people who make a lot more on TikTok than I make.

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Well, especially because I make basically zero. It's not about the channel. It's about the way that you approach your business. First off, it is saying it's being really honest with yourself and saying, am I trying to, fit the square peg in a round hole? Like, I came with this idea and this is the idea I need? Well, the market doesn't give a

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about your idea.

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Your job is to come with five, ten, 20 ideas and then listen to the market. That's first you got to listen to them. And that the way we teach it, we talk to people on the phone, we do surveys, we email. We'll even offer free services to friends, just as long as they agree to give a testimonial. All that kind of stuff.

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Channel wise, you should look at what channels are growing. You know, I probably wouldn't start a blog today if I were doing it, but sometimes people like I had one student of mine who said, I don't want to do, email. I strictly want to do Instagram. And she grew her Instagram like a lot, and she did really well.

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So having the ability to decide this is what I am, I'm really good on video or I prefer a podcast. Amazing. And then the final thing is you need to set some idea of an educated milestone. So for example, if I were to start, a podcast, I might say within four months, I want to have this many downloads per episode.

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And I know that if I have that many downloads, I'll be able to roughly make this much money. If you don't know those answers what those numbers should be, then you probably need to get educated about the podcast world. Now, if you're number, let's just make an easy number. Let's say you wanted a thousand listeners per episode, and by the end of month two, you have five things are not going well.

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You need to radically change. You still have two months. We need to radically change what you're doing. Do not wait till the end to fail. If you're going to fail, you better know it from a mile away. If, on the other hand, you get to month two and you have, 800, you're doing great. Keep going, keep going, and you're going to hit your goal.

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And that means, wow, nice job. You can probably afford to keep going on. So I think we need to apply a little bit of rigor to our business ideas. We need to get educated. We need to talk to the market. If it's not working, we need to cut bait and move on to the next idea. There's nothing wrong with closing a bad idea because there's many more good ideas in your future.

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How do I this is how I price my offers in a way that feels alive and still sells in the market. So this is something I've seen particularly women struggle with. A lot of guilt comparison here, especially because they see rising costs around them and price participants. Who cares about other people's costs? I don't give a

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Oh, tell this cheese. Talk to it me like people. Okay, you need to stop listening to people's pricing advice from the internet, okay? Some some random person on Instagram. And they'll be like, it's so outrageous how much they're charging for their, jacket. I saw these influencers just to make, like, canvas bags and stuff. Oh, my God, that canvas bag is $90.

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That's outrageous. It probably only cost him six. Do you all know that the point of business is profit maximization? The only thing that matters is can they sell it for $90? If they can sell it for $90? God bless. And in fact, you shouldn't be judging. You should be learning. What did they do that allowed them to sell for 90?

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Similarly, you can go go to Home Depot or I wouldn't go there. I hate Home Depot, but any store with commodities in it go look at the salt in the grocery store. Why does one salt cost four times what the other does? Maybe it's a little harder to source, but what about the packaging? What we need to start understanding is if we're really honest with ourselves, whether it be the nail polish or the lotion that I use, there's cheaper lotion.

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So why did I buy that lotion? I bought it because maybe my mom used it when I was growing up. Or maybe I've tried three and this one's the best. And do you think I'm sitting there looking at their freaking sourcing? All. They actually use glycerin, therefore it must be cheaper. No, cost does not equate to price. They are.

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They don't matter. The two are largely irrelevant from the consumer's perspective. So what matters is what value can you communicate. And that comes from number one choosing the right audience. If you choose the right audience, they have the ability and willingness to pay. That's important because if you're serving college students and you're trying to sell them luxury personal styling, they have no money.

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Forget it. Second, is this a problem in their life? They have the willingness to pay. Is it important to them? Somebody comes to me to go meet. I'm going to I'm going to show you how to polish your wedding ring, every day. So it'll be shiny. I go, don't care. Not going to pay $1. Not going to pay $1,000.

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My ring is my ring. It's good, I'm good. No matter how much you lower the price, it's not going to make me want it. And then there's some of the ineffable elements. The elements like, your brand, your website or Instagram. And this is where, by the way, you remember back in the day where everybody was copying, copying.

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Marie Forleo? Hey, I'm going to dance because Marie does it, and there you go. Like all those people vanish. Why did you guys do that? That was not a good strategy. What was going on was everybody just wanted to copy you because you were the most successful and you actually, like, you actually listened to 90s hip hop and dance.

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That's you. It's not an act. It's actually you finding that thing that is actually you takes a long time. I didn't used to talk like this. I had the ideas and I would talk a little bit. But finding who you is is a lifetime journey and that's good. That's how it should be. We don't need to copy somebody like you who was already successful in your own right.

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I wouldn't expect people to copy me. It makes no sense. But finding who you are and tapping into that, that allows you to raise your price because there's only one of you. Yes, I love that. So we make some smart money moves to make our own right now. You know, obviously, we're recording this at the time of this recording, there are a lot of roller coaster fluctuations.

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Remember, I woke up the other day. It was really funny. I was like, you know, I got an email from where my money is, one group, and then I got like a very similar email from another group, and I was like, oh,

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yeah, yeah. What are your thoughts for people that feel like I, you know, so much of what I'm into from the Angel perspective, it's long term.

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Yeah. And I'm like, why am I gonna look like, you know, so I'm just gonna torture myself. I better go with my time. Any thoughts that you want to say to the folks out there?

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First off, a lot of wisdom and what you said about not looking at your investments. Investments are for the long term.

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Day to day moves are largely irrelevant. And, if anything, looking at them on a day to day basis is tempting you to do the wrong thing. So the wrong thing would be selling all your investments right now, saying like, oh, it's going down. I'm panicking. That can cost you millions of dollars. Do not do that. I have a pretty aggressive recommendation to make right now, which is I'm recommending people build a 12 month emergency fund.

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Now, that's a lot that is a lot. And I want to explain why the only other time I've ever recommended a 12 month emergency fund was during Covid. So that should convey the seriousness of what I think is going on here. Most financial folks recommend 3 to 6 months. In my opinion, that's not enough. You have to understand that when really bad things happen in the market, then companies retrench.

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When companies retrench, they lay people off. They certainly have already stopped hiring. And when you if you get laid off, it's not just you. There's now millions of other people getting laid off. So those jobs vanish. And no matter what you were getting paid, the odds of getting paid the same amount go down. So you really need to build that emergency fund.

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And there's a few ways to do it. I'm not expecting anybody to do it overnight. But what I want is for you to protect yourself because when uncertain certainty rises, bad things happen to individuals and you do not want to have your back against the wall and suddenly have to lose your house or lose your car. Some people have to stop taking medications during recession.

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It's life or death. Some few things people can do. Number one, obviously look at your discretionary expenses right away and start to become aggressive about either trimming those down or eliminating them. If you use my conscious spending plan, just look at the fourth category and just chop it off. Put that money into savings. Some other things you can do which are a little bit you can, extend your expenses.

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So let's say you're getting self-care done. Some type of self-care every three months. Get your hair. Yeah. Consider expanding it to four months. I hate to say this, but over the course of a year that can be hundreds of dollars. Put that money in savings. Then we get into some of the more complex things. If you are contributing, for example, to a low interest, debt, for example, you're paying $200 extra per month on a 3% mortgage.

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No way. Not anymore. That money is going into savings. There's no reason to pay low interest it. You could even cut your contributions to a 401 K down to the match and put that money in. The point is, I want you to build a war chest because bad things are probably coming. Nobody can predict for sure. But the worst thing you want to do is to walk into financial chaos with no savings.

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It is too risky. I remember years ago, years and years ago, I was like writing in my journal about how my biggest financial goal at that time in my life was having a six month. Yeah, a rainy, rainy day fund. And we were talking with Josh about it and it felt like so absolutely out of reach. Yeah. I was just like, gosh, I haven't had six months.

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And I'll tell you, I'm a very financially conservative person. I know this about myself. I know I'm very risk averse. Yeah. And I was like redoing my numbers the other day. And I'm like, I like having three years. I and I might not be wise. I know there's a difference between math and motion. Yeah. But over time, I've also learned that keys is so important to me.

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And then I'm actually a better I feel like I'm a better human. I'm more effective creatively in terms of what I can, generate. Yeah, I feel way if there is peace. I'm so happy that we're talking about. Yeah, I think all of us are so unique in that this perverseness and what our comfort level is, where we feel a sense of financial peace and all of those adjustments, if anyone's like, really, it's like, oh, no, to build up that, we're just.

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Yeah, no better feeling in the world than to be able to go. You know what? If there's chaos around right now and there is, and so much of that is largely out of our individual control in the moment. You have to take really small steps to create a little buffer for a lot of runway. Yeah, to navigate. It's like when I go to the airport and I see people running to their flight and, you know, like move out of the way.

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And I'm just zen. That's how I want to be at the airport. Zen and and the reason for that is I can't control when the plane's going to go. I can't control if there's a longer line than I expected. But the only thing I can control is getting there early. And if I do that, probably all the rest is going to be okay.

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So I try to apply that same principle like you to my savings, and I encourage everybody else, we don't like to think ahead. In general, in American culture, we live by the month. We don't really think about things like retirement. Certainly like, what is my rich life? How much do I need? What's a 4% withdrawal? And you know what we hate more than that.

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We hate planning for something negative. So it's one thing to plan for retirement. It's another thing to plan like, oh, I got to get my molars removed 20 years from now. And you're telling me I got a plan for that? No, thanks. I'll just not deal with it at all. That's how we think about an emergency fund. But trust me, that when bad things happen, like when Covid happened, I felt so grateful that I had that money for my family and for me to be safe.

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I want the exact same for everybody.

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that. So if you could only teach someone one money principle to live by

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for the rest of their life, don't feel like you have to stick with this one forever. What's coming up for you in this? Okay, what would that principle. Guess not. In stone. Yeah, I like that. I like the fluidity you suggest.

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I think my favorite principle would be spend extravagantly on things you love. As long as you cut costs mercilessly on the things you don't. So I spend a lot of money on clothes. I love clothes, travel. My wife and I love to travel. Even taking a guy's trip, you know, like I've been telling you how I'm fighting against the urge to be a male recluse.

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So I text my friends, I'm like, guys, I want to spend some quality time. I have an idea. Let's go to, a ranch and let's go and, like, do what people do on a ranch. Let's go have some fun. And they were like, yes, let's do it. Boom! Use the money for things like that. On the other hand, there are things I just don't care that much about eating out at fancy restaurants.

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It's not really my thing. I've done it once in a while. I will do it, but it's not really my thing. And so, having a big suburban house, it's not really my thing. And, I think it's important to know what your rich life is and what you want to spend more on and what you don't want to spend money on.

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And I love how everyone's is unique. Yours is different. Mine is different. Everyone's rich life is different. That's the point. Your rich life is yours. But I would love more people to have that vision of who they are and what they love. And do not love anything you want to talk about today. Money is not a source of disagreement, does not have to be a source of fighting.

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And tit for tat money can be a source of connection, spontaneity, generosity. And that is why I wrote money for couples. That's why I love to see couples using money to live their rich life. Thank you so much. Thank you. So many more questions. But that's only requires another. Any time, any time. Thank you.

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The problem is, time is not on your side,

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When I ask couples, what is your financial role in this relationship? This drives me insane.

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Remy. Oh, Like, So personal. So happy to see you. Thank you. Same way too long. Like, we cannot let this many years go by. Yeah. And I was telling you before we hit record something like,

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