Repeat These 2 Words to Reinvent Yourself with JVN

Today's guest is an unstoppable force of nature. Now you know them as the beloved beauty and self-care expert on Queer Eye, a show that's won six Emmys and changed lives around the world, including mine. But Jonathan Van Ness is so much more than a TV icon.

They're a bestselling author, podcaster, activist, entrepreneur, comedian, and more. From Emmy nominated beginnings with Game of Thrones to

Getting Curious, their new YouTube show Getting Better, that I was just a guest on bestselling books, children's stories, their hair care line Jayvon hair. Jonathan is truly living proof that you never, ever have to fit yourself into one singular box.

You can create your own. So buckle up, because this conversation is going to be so much fun, so healing, and so full of joy

First of all, you don't know this, but I fell in love with you hard during the holidays like just a few months ago. I was in a really, really tough place with my family. As in a really, really tough place, like in every which way. And I was taking a break from basically the world, but I needed something nourishing to watch and forgive.

But I had never do that to Queer Eye before, so I started bingeing and it started with the new season. Season nine, and work my way backwards. And it just you, your energy, the whole show. It was like super healing for me. Oh, so thank you for that. Thank you for watching that. And so one of my favorite moments, I was literally pulling out my camera and I was both like crying and laughing so
hard because of you was, episode four when you said that, you know, lady, growing up, she taught you a very simple.

But I found it to be very clever way to not say mean things about herself. Can you teach us about the Life-Changing magic of those two words? Yes. Crop failure. Yeah. So, so, yeah. So this woman who was really important to me growing up, I knew her, like, my whole life. She did spoiler alert. Turn out to be like a un unrepentant, Trump supporting pastor's wife of an incredibly conservative right wing church who also, when queer.

I went to Quincy in season four, her husband wrote a letter to the newspaper of the town to be like, what's up with all these homosexuals? So it's been an interesting actual journey because, like, I've gotten to like, it's really been it's something of like holding the memories and the things that she taught me close and still being able to like, love and appreciate her for what she brought into my life, but also like really having to intentionally like, let that relationship go, because it just became way too painful.

So it was like 20 what, what I think was like 2012 that I kind of stopped being, you know, really close with her in my life. But things that she taught me, like I still hold on to those things I still tell people about and actually my relationship with her, my experiences with her and for my relationship with what was his name, Anita.

I wish I remembered his name off the top of my head. Yes. Snack attack, Baskin's Gilligan, but snack attack. But but because he was also like, he's like, on a different end of the political spectrum than I am, so I had to I always like, dive into my, like, Quincy, my hometown bag. What? I mean, to, like, deal with conservative people because I'm like, I can I know how to do this, but yeah.

So crop failure. Sorry it took me so long to get there. So crop failure is this idea that in the Christian faith, I think so much of what I would hear growing up is like, you know, you reap what you sow. Like that's something that we so often hear and your words are your seeds. And so if you say negative things like those seeds like grow into, like icky crops, like you just you don't want those crops to come to fruition when you talk shit about yourself or recasting here, you can go, oh, my God, it's my job.

Yes. Come out. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yes. I remember I was sitting there because at that particular moment in my life, I yeah, it's just a few months ago. I just remember sometimes walking by the mirror and like hearing even if it was programing from my past or something like you're so weak right now, why can't you pull it together?

Or like, you know, all the stuff and then then you had that moment, with the gentleman, and episode four is just like you taught him crop failure. I started using it for myself, and it was just. It was also just so fun, you know, it was like, such a fun way of rather than going like, oh, here's another thing I'm doing wrong.

I was like, crop failure, honey. No, it really helps, like redirects. So, I think that's part of the magic. I mean, there's so much magic of you as a human. We're going to get into so much of that. But also queer, right, that all of you show up and believe in someone, and you see their beauty and their magic and their possibility, especially when they can't yet see it and themselves, if they've lost their ability.

Can you tell the story of Steve, the diving board? You know, I just love that in the book because I feel like you have always been such a powerhouse. But, as you're telling in your book, it was like in that moment you didn't believe that you could do a backwards dive, and you were so passionate about all of these things, and, you know, your mind was telling you that you're not ready yet.

And I feel like that story could be just a perfect intro for us to talk about, like letting go of our fears to trying new things. I definitely feel like it wasn't like the gentle parenting of 2025. Like since he was my stepdad, it he was just like the most amazing, like, father figure. And I mean, my dad's amazing too, but my stepdad, really, he taught me how to fish.

He taught me how to, like, drive, taught me how to change a car, taught me how to do a back dive. So I was like, you know how heterosexual men are about, like, their football. This is how I was with, like, gymnastics and figure skating growing up. Like my life revolved around it. And like, my level of obsession with gymnastics wasn't still remains like not even on like, the charts.

And but it's so frustrating. I just couldn't do a freaking backflip. Like, I went to gymnastics. Like I just couldn't. I never could get it. And so my dad used to say, like, I think if you could get it back, dive or just like throw one off the diving board, you could get one on the ground. But like, that's the first step.

And I was like, no, no, I'm too scared. I can't. And so he was like, this summer, like you're going to learn. I think it was in like seventh or eighth grade mosquitoes. Right? Yeah. In his Speedo. Somehow it was so funny. He had, like, come out of the men's locker room and like the tiniest little Speedos, and he was like six, three and like probably 260, 250.

But he didn't give a

He was like. And his goggles in neon Speedos did not give a

So cute. So he. But yeah. So finally he was like, he was like, he's like, just put your arms up, follow it back. Like, look back. And I would just kept chickening out, wouldn't do it. So then he was like, you know, let me help you.

I'm going to come up on the diving board. I'm going to I'm just going to I'm not going to do anything. I'm just going to like, show you how he's like. Yeah. So he was like, I'm going to put my arm around your lower back and I just need you, like kind of start to do a back bend off the back, like, you know, just look back.

It'll be fine. He put and but what I didn't realize is he. So I was looking back. But then he put his, like hand on my shoulder. So like forced me back into, like a backbend and then just, like, pushed me and I, you know, just force forced me into a back dive. And I was like, it wasn't as scary as I thought it was because I could do front flips.

I could do all the front flips all day long. All I could do, I could do a one and a half forwards, like off the diving board, but backwards. I just really did have such this like mental block. And when he finally did it really, it's it really is cool because I in the in over the top I told that story goes into after that me like trying to make cheerleading and becoming a cheerleader and you had to be able to get a backflip to do to try out for cheer.

And I kind of saw that as my like, ticket to like, social, like like community and like getting out of isolation because, like, I needed to, like, get those girls to like me so that everyone else, like, would start being nightmares to me. So like, I saw like a way and cheerleading was my way. But I would literally, like, cry myself to sleep because I'd be like, I can't get a backflip on a gym floor.

I'd like to tall my old chair. Or my old, gymnastics coach used to tell me that she never saw someone with less natural ability learn to tumble. I got over on sheer determination, and that's what she said, because I. I'm, like, tall. I like, don't have the body for it, but I just, like, willed myself into it.

And it took me so freaking long. You and I share a little DNA that way. First of all, I tried out for cheer so many times in high school and got so rejected. Like, yeah, yeah, oh, embarrassingly rejected. Until finally I think it was like 4 or 5 times after just feeling like total

and like, oh my God, I'm the worst and whatever that, I finally made it.

And my coach at, oh my God, it makes me so happy. It was it. Your junior year, senior year, my Adidas, my junior. Oh my God. So then you got two years, two years. And I was like such. So I'm from new Jersey and at that time I, I but it was competitive super competitive. But I was also a weightlifter.

So I spent a lot of time at your good ass base. Honey, I do not look 127 right now, because the amount of time I spent in a tanning bed during. Yeah, I would show up and I would. I find this year that one time that year to try out, it's like full tan, like French manicure, big ass hair.

I mean, in here is a big deal. Very big deal. But it was, it was very gratifying. And then I put out my entire cheer team through like, a weight training, basically regimen, because I'm like, we're going to win competition, and we need stronger than still, you know? Yeah. So but it was sheer determination. There was like, absolutely all the other girls had like, danced and they were many.

I had no dance experience. I so I, I love that you went back. Oh I went back and I went back and I was back and like I eventually I did see this on your show, but I eventually became a Nike elite dance athlete, one of the first in the world. By sheer determination. I have like zero dance training, but I will do myself into that position.

So I get it. And I just, I want to say about this because all of us have for years I had meant a lot to you and I've constantly you still, at this age have to work through those fears of trying new things. So that's why I wanted you to tell that story. Okay, let's build off of that.

Is there anything else that you've learned recently about letting go of your fear to try something? Yeah, because I feel like you're always challenging yourself to to move into new worlds. Oh my gosh. There might not be. Well, no, there is. I've actually been I started working on, so I've written two books, but they both were, you know, memoir and, and then the second one was essay, but like, you know, still kind of memoir essay.

It was like research, but it was kind of nice because, like, it really allowed my ADHD to just like do its thing. I got to get really deep into things that I was highly passionate about, and I didn't necessarily have to, like, connect it. And then I but so then I started realizing that I wanted to tell more stories and like, really learn to write.

And so through my podcast, I had interviewed a few different queer historians over the years, and I was like, I got this idea that I wanted to tell a story that was like intergenerational queer history. So that's like how I let them steer a book that's coming out. And they came up. So that was like, so that's like, you know, writing like it was my first fiction novel.

But then from there I started being like, could I write TV? Like, could I be like a scripted storyteller and creator? So a couple years ago, I started like just thinking about my favorite shows like Golden Girls, Veep's hacks, and, just I started finding the manuscripts like, online, like, and just because I knew how to write memoir.

And now I've learned how to write fiction, but I still need a lot more work on fiction. Like, if Julie Murphy hadn't coauthored that with me, Let Them Stare would be like a steaming hot dumpster fire. Like she really was so patient. The coauthor that I worked with, like she wrote Dumplin and she's one of my favorite people in the whole world.

Like, I'm so excited that I got to work with her and, like, it actually kind of makes me want to cry because she's just been the most nurturing. Incredible. About that for a minute. Because let them stare is coming out on May 20th. Young adult yes. Young adult way fiction you guys. It's so it's so good. Tell us and I know that part of kind of there's a mantra or an essence that you guys shared about where you are.

Yes. Depending on when we air this, I know it'll come out around when the book is launch or if you're seeing this after you can preorder till even if it's before, because you get a really cute keychain, a really cute keychain. And can I tell you, Julie was so smart because they wanted us to do these, like, patches.

And Julie was like, no one wears a patch anymore. I'm sorry. Like, it's all about a keychain. Like everybody loves a keychain. And and they were like, oh, it's like a little bit like a different budget than a patch. And she was just like, honey, we have got to get the keychain. And I'm so glad she did, because people, like are kind of obsessed with our keychain.

I'm obsessed with that. So if you want to preorder her, you can get it. There's a lesson in there, though, because it's about taking a stand for what you know to be true as a creator. And I think that that is so important for all creators watching right now. I remember I had yeah, with everything is figure out what they did not.

And I love my publisher, by the way. They're amazing. They're like, no, you know, like about the cover. And I was like, this. You're like, it has to be SJP, right? It was like, I needed to do that. So I love, that your collaborator, you know, took a stand after what she felt was going to be like.

Yeah. I mean, she's she's one of the best, like, leading, like, fiction. I mean, she's like, why fiction? Fiction. She's just like. I mean, she really is like, top of her game. Top of her class. Like, have you ever seen that movie Dumplin with Jennifer Aniston on Netflix? It's so cute. It's from like 1819. It's been on there for a minute, but, she just writes like, banger after banger after banger.

Julie Murphy does, but I feel like she was just so patient and, really, really gentle and, just she just, like, created an environment where it really helped me thrive. Yes. And give us a little snapshot, a little preview about the book and who it's for. It's like 12 to 18, although I would say that so many of my, like, you know, way more adult friends have been like obsessed with it.

And they're like, I think everyone's really going to like it.

Here's the elevator pitch for Let Them Stare. It's about a haunted handbag that this, this genderqueer, like, 18 year old kid who just graduated high school. They're leaving their hometown in Pennsylvania. It's a little town called Hearst.

And they're like, they kind of have a Bridget Jones. Like, if I have to work within ten feet of you moment. But with their whole family at the graduation party, they're like, screw all you guys. I'm leaving. I never have to see you again. Except for the next day. Some things happen and they end up having to stay in their hometown.

They get stuck there, and then they find this bag. But the bag is priceless. Like. I mean, I'm talking like Antique Roadshow Sotheby's. Like, life changing, like, like major money. But it's haunted by this fierce character, Rufus, who we love. And Rufus and Sally, who's the main character, end up building this incredible friendship, and they find out so much about each other.

But, you know, ghost evictions are devastating when you become close to the ghost. And so it's like once, once Rufus gets to the kind of, you know, they have, like the ghost amnesia, which so many ghosts, you know, struggle with the ghost amnesia. And they so it's kind of about finding, finding something that works for you, blooming where you're planted.

And I think what was really most important for me in this era that we're in is I was so shocked when I was like 30 something to really realize that, like, queers have been everywhere for so long. Like, I really was out here not knowing that, and, and one of the ways that it was so viscerally brought to light for me was a gun on my, my, my butt getting it's called getting better now.

But we were getting curious for like nine years, and I got to interview these people who started this channel on Instagram called LGBT history. And they when I interviewed them, they brought this like magazine from the 60s that was like this Midwestern queer magazine. And it had like, pen pal notes in it. And there was this letter from the 60s from this guy who is like, I've had a good friend run for ten years, but Ron doesn't want to move out of his house with his mother.

And if he doesn't want to, like, take our friendship more seriously, move out of his, you know, house with his mother, then I've got to move on and find a new friend. So it's like all this, like, coded roommate. Like, you know, like gay 60s language. And. And it was like, Quincy, Illinois. And I was like, what the hell?

And so that was kind of, I guess it seemed kind of obvious, but it is just so true that we have existed for hundreds of years. And I think in this time of like erasure and sense sent in such censorship, it's really important for me that young queer people have possibility models of finding joy where they are, because not everyone can get out of their hometown.

And that's not even the goal for some people. And for me, I think in media, growing up there always was like coming from a small town. It's like you got to make it to New York or L.A. and get to the big city. And that's where the real life happens. And if someone who has accomplished their dreams, I can say, I'm not sure that I wouldn't have been happier on a lake in my hometown, like in a small little, like, community center.

It's like wherever you are, like your life can be rich and beautiful. And it's like about like wanting what you have. And so yeah, I love that. I love that so much. And I think that it applies for all of us. And I also have to find myself at times like I'm always looking at young adult like fantasy, like I just downloaded something, I'm going to be going to Sicily and, yes.

And I'm like looking and I'm like, oh, is this for teens? Oh, it's for me. There's a teenager inside of me. So I, I love this. Congratulations. Thank you. So we have so many creatives and entrepreneurs that are in our audience. And I think one of the biggest questions that I hear all the time is it's a concern.

And it always breaks my heart when I hear it is that folks are desirous of sharing, whether it's a product or service, an idea, a message, a cause. But they are terrified, especially on social media, that if they share themselves, they're going to be criticized for going to be judged, that the world is going to be really cool and mean to them.

You are an incredible public figure who dealt with so much. You've been in the public eye now for years for people even who aren't necessarily worried about trolls, but they're like, people are going to think I'm too much. And I have that narrative. My number much earlier. Is there anything that you would tell someone who's afraid to put themselves out there and to be fully see whether it's in their work or their personal life or their identity?

Not to keep Namedrop in the pod, but I do feel like I feel like almost everything amazing that I've learned has come from, like, the people I've gotten to interview on my podcast. But, I mean, Graziani is this incredible queer historian. And he said to me something. I interviewed him last summer. It was pride, pride 2024 and 2024 was just like, not my year.

It was like it was just I like to say that I went from America's sweetheart to like, America's bottom hockey JV and like I just every time I turn around, someone was trying to like, on my chest when I didn't ask for it, and I just and I just felt like I was just getting, like, assaulted by the world, like, every two seconds.

But he said to me something that I will never forget. When he said it to me, I. My stomach drops through my heart. It like I mean, I got head to toe chills. I it just, it just it's so much so that even just now, like I like when to hold the back of my head because it like I mean he said to me, find the courage to be disliked and the bigger my career got, the more afraid I was to become disliked.

Which is not how it should go, because the more known you become, the more you will be exposed to people not liking you. So I don't know why. Like the more successful I got almost, I feel like the more sensitive or something I got like I just and it sounds so like, but it's like being perceived, like being perceived by a lot of people, whether it's in real life, like, you know, you're on a stage or on a TV or on social media, like when you're being perceived like by a lot of people, it is overwhelming.

And, and especially there's like a hard core people pleaser in there, which like, I got such a people pleaser in here that they're driving me nuts. Honey, I gotta you know, I'm always working on my relationship with my people pleaser. So, I think I would say what I mean said, which is like, find the courage to be just like.

But that is like, so incredibly hard. Absolutely. And so it's a work in progress. I mean, I remember in the beginning when I just first started sharing my work online, first of all, there's no one paying attention. So and I was still young enough to, like, not have anything to lose. And so I didn't get to do any mean.

And then I think one of the things for me, I'm a very sensitive human being, even though I have, somewhat of a I like with maturity, I think comes a lot of perspective. And so I've learned a lot over the years. It's been like, you know, 23 years of having this business and in some form doing kind of public things.

And in the beginning I just had, I think, like the hormones were raging, you know what I mean? I'm in my like mid 20s. I'm like, I don't know. And I

and this is just me. And then I remember in like my mid 30s was where I just, I was absorbing so many comments and and seeing all the things and I found myself almost subconsciously editing down, editing down.

First of all, there is a good place in that meaning. I didn't want to because I'm wild and crazy, so things might pop out of my mouth that are unintentionally maybe offending someone or hurting. And it's like I'm super playful. I'm super loving. I that is not my heart. Yes. Like ever. Yes. I'm like every other human learning and growing, but I just found myself kind of shrinking to fit.

Yes, I think one of the things that helped me was I actually stopped, like being as engaged in the comments, and I was like, if I don't protect my creative vessel and just focus on the work, my heart, my family, my health, you know, like those kind of things, I'm like, I'm going to shrink into nothing. So thank you for sharing.

Of course, I feel like it's a continuous that resonates so much that it's a continuous journey. I think the other thing that was that was challenging for me was, and I don't know if you've navigated this or it's ever popped up, was just like, oh my gosh, I built this beautiful thing. I don't want to lose what I have.

Do you know what I mean? Of like not wanting to then, you know, disappoint partners or disappoint you so and so by by being the yes,

yes, yes. Anyway, so I think and then one of the things that's helped me too is also knowing just being a human and going like there's tons of people that don't like me no matter what.

So

it. Yeah. Like I'm just going to keep people. Yes. Going back to Queer Eye for a minute, one of the things I love is, just watching evolution over time. Like, so when I started my show, I think it was like 2009 on YouTube, but it was a

webcam from my MacBook. No. Photo booth was like a such a vibe.

I love that photo booth era. So when I started watching Queer Eye, I actually did it in reverse chronology. So I, you know, started with the latest season, then was going back backwards. And so as I was watching the earlier seasons, I was watching you and the whole team, even the editors in the production, because I love production.

I love watching how things unfold. Did you notice yourself getting more comfortable on camera over time or like how you know what I mean when you guys show up with when everyone shows up with these incredible heroes and just watched each of the fab I was like, oh my gosh, I just watched the evolution. That was so much fun.

It was so much fun to witness. Did you watch back shows, or do you feel like you've just learned how to be more artful and skillful? You know, it's so funny. It will not so funny, but I hear that a lot. Like when people talk to me, like if they just get into the show or if they've been watching it for a long time, like people say, oh, I've just seen you, like, grow into yourself or like and I was like, I am like, really?

That I loved, I didn't even mean to you. It just happened. I mean, I think

I've been saying this for like, seven years, but it's so true. I still feel myself in, like, a constant state of shock like that. I get to do queer, I, that I get to, like, do hair and, like, meet people and be in like it's it's just it really is such a cool experience.

But I think over the time I've, I don't I yeah, I don't want to be like, like anti-climactic. But I feel like the most thing that changed was my checkbook. Like, I could just get way cuter clothes, way cuter. Glam. Like, I feel like that. And I feel like from season one to, like, three, four, because, like, that's what, like, I got my stylist like, season one into, like, I didn't have, like, there was a stylist on the show, but I was just like constantly going rogue and, like, doing my own thing, like just, you know, just trying to figure it out and to Ali BS defense, if you're ever watching this.

She's been my stylist since 2006, since the premiere of Queer Eye. That's when I met her, and I've literally only ever worked with her since. And she will like when she watches this show. She'll be like, girl, like, this was not in the lookbook. Like you went rogue on this. Like, this was not the look that we agreed on.

But it's like it's Vegas or it's like New Orleans or it's Philadelphia or like Austin, Texas in, like, the height of summer. And so sometimes I'm like, oh, I can't do hair and these long sleeves. I'm like, yeah. There was like a really famous character on SNL called Pat, who is like very it's not it would never past 2025.

But they were like giving. Genderqueer is giving genderqueer no one knew of. Pat was like a man or a woman. They were really, really funny. But I wore this one outfit in Vegas and Ali B is sent me this thing and she was like, you are dressed is like a pat look alike at this salon, see? Like, what is this outfit?

And I was like, really? And she was like, oh, this is like I was wearing like, moccasins, pink jeans and like a light bluish gray t shirt. I was like, I thought it was so cute. Ali was not having it. So. So she styles me like I would say like 95% of the time, except for the 5% of the times when I go rogue.

But I like that. Kind of like that elevated how stylistically like it did like, like. And so I don't know if that's kind of I also feel like one other thing that really, really like is esthetically changed the first like and not even to like plug even hair, but it is just it's so true. I never had the patience to like, make to wear my hair curly on camera, because if I was doing like, you know, how we do those little interviews and Queer Eye if if you ever like, have to recreate one of those like, I don't want like I could never make my curly hair look the same way twice.

So I always blew it out straight then or like, you know, just did a blowdry then when I started formulating even hair and I was like, I just love curls. I love natural texture and like, it's my favorite type of hair to style and do. And I just was like, sick of layering, like 19 products on my hair.

Like having to do like a cream and a gel and a foam and an oil. So that was like my kind of inspo behind air dry cream when I did formulate it and started Gbbn here. So then from like scrunching so many versions of air dry cream in my hair and just like only wearing my hair curly, I finally figured out after doing hair professionally for like over a decade, how to do my own curls consistently so I could make them look the same.

So then I started like, embracing my natural texture more. And I think. I also think it's like I just never think about this. The other thing too, it's like with query, like we watch the episodes, I watch them like right before they come out for when I do interviews and stuff, but it's not like I go back and like watch no, no or like but but I do think that I'm more aware now of like if I'm talking too long, that's never going to make it like so I do.

I am a little bit more aware of, like how can I get my point across in like two sentences instead of like 12? And just be a little quippy or be a little shorter, like be more aware of like what they need. Whereas I feel like at the beginning I was just like, yeah, because I have learned how to be a producer.

I mean, when we started, we were like, we didn't have producer credits, and now we have EP credits. And I mean, I think from Game of Thrones, like I started that off. Didn't know anything about writing, producing, performing and comedy. Nothing. And I learned how to produce right epi like I learned I mean, I learned about editing, sound engineering, like lighting.

It's I just have learned so much stuff on the job, like in just in life that has just been so cool. I love it, I love the behind the scenes and I love, I don't know if you can share this, but you know, we see a 40 ish 50 minute finished product. How many hours about go into one episode?

Oh, probably 40 I think 40 is amazing. I would say like 40, maybe between 30 and 40 because we're shooting like you're shooting like eight hours a day for five days. And I think for like when I'm in the salon with them, if it's like if it's someone where I'm doing like cut in color, we are on mic, on camera like that whole time.

Like the whole time. I mean, doing I feel like that's sometimes I never, I never like, say this because I don't, I just don't. But like, sometimes when we do group interviews, people be like, what's the hardest part about filming that? You know, and people always go to design because it's a it is the most physically intensive.

Like, you know, it's long, but the difference is like design has like ten, 20 people. I got this guy right here. And so when I'm thinking about like how much and also having production which will be like, can you do this? Can we do like a bigger transformation and less amount of time, like there's so much pressure and then like doing hair in front of like three cameras with like so many people like watching your every move and you can feel their pressure.

Sure of. Like, I

need you to hurry up so we can get to the next scene and start that on time. But, like, soon as you're like, her hair is orange right now. It's not lifting as fast. Like I thought it was going to lift faster, but I didn't. That's another thing I've learned. A queer eye eye tester and now I didn't used to test drinks to like, I know how this is going to left now, honey, before I even before I even think about doing highlights on camera, I'm test turning that sucker like a day or two before just to see if it's going to lift.

Okay. And then they just have like one little random highlight, that like I'll just, I hide underneath so I could just like see how it's going to lift because I just can't help. There's so many different things. And I think with almost any creative project, there's certainly something that is on television or film or like a of production.

When you see something that looks easy and effortless and it's magical, it's like the amount of work that goes into creating that magic is. So, it's always mind blowing because those turnaround scenes, like in queer, I like when I turn them around, like, that's usually like 10:00 at night. We've all been there for like seven hours and like, I'm like, we have the makeup artist that like, let's just like, let's brighten these eyes up and just, like, make us, make us look alive, honey and brush and you're looking.

Thank you. Okay, so let's talk about fame a little bit. And just being a public figure a little bit more. I feel like from reading your memoir, like you knew from a very young age, like you were a star on the inside. I know, but it's it's like, know. You know, I definitely thought I was. Yeah. Landing it, sticking it.

And then, of course, after the show premiered, your life changed a lot. And I know you wrote about this in Over the Top, but is there anything about fame that you wish you knew before that no one tells you that can either be surprising or difficult or, something that you either didn't expect or you wish you knew how to navigate for before it happened, I remember I did something, I'm so not famous.

You are tell me everything. I was like, I just was having a rough time. One time. And I was living in Venice, in California, and my best friend. And I was just like, you were just having, like, not a great time. Yeah. And we were in Erewhon, which is

I love everyone. And someone who is a big man came up to me and asked if they could take a picture.

And I said no. And I felt really guilty. Just I just didn't like I was like, I'm so appreciative of your amazing fact. Just like I was like, on the verge of tears. Yeah, it's going through. And I've always felt really

about that. Yeah, I wasn't showing up as that resonates so hard. I can't even see how that best self.

And then I could feel her disappointment again. I'm a super sensitive, energetic being and I remember feeling like just a piece of

after that. And again, I'm nobody and it just like brings tears to my eyes now because I was just like,

damn, why could you just

smiled and like, took a picture and made someone else's day, you know, get out there and I'll say, now I just resonate so hard.

I mean, there has been I remember when this is like, so sad. I wrote about it and, I love that story. But like, I had a cat who I just like, loved so much, and he

fell out of the window of my apartment building and died when we were filming Queer Eye Season five in Philly. And he, like, I woke up at seven in the morning, couldn't find him.

I thought, like, I like when I got Uber Eats the night before. I thought, like, he went out the front door or something. And just like I was like in the hallways, like like bug, but like looking for him. Meanwhile, the air conditioning in the building had broken, so it was like it was like August. It was like really

hot.

So like, I cracked this window that was like, it's like a Swiss cheese window. It like, didn't go up and down like this. It like went, you know, like this. So it was like two inches. This car was like a big ass, like one year old cat. So I didn't think he could like, it's like the window was like open wide.

It was like, not an irresponsible, like, big ass window. I go down to the front desk, I'm like, did someone turn in my cat? Like, I feel like I left him on like the like, you know, whatever the floor that I was on. And her face just, like, totally changed. And I, it was like a movie. Like, I could, like, see the air conditioner thing being broken.

I could see me, like, opening it. And then she was like, we we found him this morning. I'm so sorry. Like, he's in the back and I just, like, crumpled like a crumpled to the ground sobbing. I will never forget this man coming out of the elevator walking his dog. And he stepped over me like fashion roadkill and, sex and the city.

And the lady who had just told me that they had found bug was like. Cause like, this man just, like, walked over and I was like, man, I was giving you Nancy Kerrigan. Like, I was giving you just screaming and agony, like I just could not

believe it. But here's the worst part. Other than what had happened, like Good Morning America had done this.

Like this prize giveaway where like five people got to come watch, like us filming like, like the scene when we, like, watch us some we call it like the loft scene. And so we were filming a lofty 9930 that morning, so I, like I called our showrunner and I was like, girl, there's like, no way. I can't like, I can't be myself today, like, I can't.

And when I got upstairs to tell her that, like, all the cabinets were still open and like the closet was open because I had been, like, looking for him. So I just thought, I like because, like, if you have a cat like, you know, like you, sometimes they get into a closet, you shut the door like when, like it was just like other than, like, honestly, it's it's like top three most traumatizing things that's ever happened to me in my life.

Like, it really was just like, worst, craziest, saddest. So. But anyway, I, I think the day that we filmed it was that I had, like, really morbid humor. I remember they kept this line in the show, but I said I was like, oh man. I was like, I love your shirt. And I was like, I think my grandma was buried in something just like it.

And I just could not stop making like the darkest jokes. And these fans came from GMA and I was just like beside myself and like, could not like be my normal self then because I'm very stable and handle grief really well that day, like some of my team had like come to Philly, just like be with me one week because we wrapped it like two that afternoon.

I remember my agent was like, what are we like, what do you want to do? And I was like, I'm going to go get two kittens, like, I don't. I have like no grieving time on my schedule. Like, I can't lose a cat right now. I'm just going to, like, put two kittens and like this, like, bug that because I had a cat that passed away when we were filming in season three who was like 12.

He just died of, like, natural, you know, old causes. He's like my first baby bug. The first. So this is bug the second. And I was like, why can't get a bug the third? That's like just too much. So I got these, like two really cute cats, Matilda and Genevieve. But then when I got back to the apartment, I was like,

the air conditioning is broken.

Now I have two even smaller cats, so I just like hot box and this little and this, like, little one bedroom apartment in Philly with, like, a broken air conditioner. It just it I can't even remember. Oh, yeah. So there's that. But when, when that happened, I remember I made a post and I made that post for people to be like, don't I for this week?

Like, I know I won't be doing a picture. I will not be my normal self. If I seem like a crazy person. It's because like, like big T trauma just happen and I just get I'm not like my normal self. Interestingly though, with the whole like pictures and just like and you know, selfies. I was so excited to do them.

I did them all the time for like the like, you know, the first like 2 or 3 years. And then I had a one eyed, reactive dog named Pablo, who I ultimately had to rehome because he bit like nine people like my mom, my husband, my old assistant, and a random electrician, just like he was a biter. He had like major dog PTSD.

So when people would come close to me, I would. I just didn't want to end up on the news. But then I felt so guilty about saying no to selfies that I realized that it's easier for me to just say yes. So even if, like my arms hanging off, even like, you know, like literally like I had like this other like really like tragic like thing happen happening and not to say, but I mean, I just had like a tragic death in our family in 2023.

And even when that happened, I remember like I was in the airport, like flying, like after I just found out and this lady needed a selfie and I just like, I don't know if it's healthy for my mental health, I just but after I did go through like a one year period where I felt like I could say no, and then after doing it like I probably said no, like ten times, like a good like ten times for various reasons ranging from I don't feel like it to bad day to whatever.

And then after just seeing, I was like, I'm just going to do it. Even if I look like

even if I don't want to. I just do it now. Especially because I live in New York and I have to run into people on the street where I, you know, like, when do I ever look here? Just like I feel that's it also came back to my own self-love because then I was having like, my own perfectionist just bullshit

of like, oh, I have to.

And I don't wear a ton of makeup, but it's like, yeah, I do not wake up like that. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. And so I just got over myself and now I'm like, you know what? I'm a

loving human. And it's this amazing other loving human. I happened to get the privilege to, like, meet them. And somehow my work has touched their heart on a

yes.

Yes. I mean, unless there was something going on where I can verbally say, oh my goodness, I just don't have it, you know? Yes. Anyway, thanks for talking about Noah. God, of course, in my place. Okay, so let's talk about the fact that your, You're just like, I love how prolific you are. So Netflix show, you know, getting better.

Your podcast hair for Life in Comedy, which we're going to talk about. And then I'm going to make us go a little faster. Thank you. Sorry. Yes.

Talk about with you. So good for. We just have to do round two, please. How do you know when an idea is worth saying? Yes. Do you like. Do you have an internal greenlight system that learns how to do it?

You really taught me a lot about this. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Are you really taught me a lot about this? You know, I own internal creative, I guess. Jeremy. So, like, you was going to ask one. Yeah, I think I just know one. I'm really passionate about it. Yeah, I know one, I, I totally I'm really good at identifying a full body.

Yes. I'm not as good yet at identifying a full body. No. Because I feel like sometimes I just I'm such a like my busy bee like, my worker part is just like, I will figure this out. So something to. Yeah. You know, like it is. Everything is figure it out. Like we can figure this out. But so that part is, like, a little harder.

Like being, like, maybe I don't have the time, or maybe, like, it's really hard for me to say this is not a priority for me right now. That's so hard for me to say. But it's something I've learned. So I feel like that's easier for me to identify than full body. No, because I also feel like a non-binary person.

I see this as a joke, but it's like, true. I hate like this or that. Yeah. Like full body? Yes. Or full. I just feel like binaries maybe. Yeah. And it's like I just feel like binaries and it's like, yes and no. Like black and white thinking. I do feel like it like gets us into trouble. Unless it's like really, really obvious.

Like, don't murder someone, you know, don't assault. So like, there's like some things are like very obviously easy yeses or no's, but a lot of other stuff, it is a little bit more nuanced. We created a category almost like where like, this just came to me right now it's almost just like a little back talk about things like it's on my like, my side burner.

Yes. Where it's going to hang out over here for a little bit and we're going to keep her cute and we're going to keep the warm and she's maybe incubating. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, you it just might not be your time. Yes. We're going to a wrap. Yes. Staying with creative powerhouse, running a media empire.

We have so many great projects. What are like whether it's been key hires or key people like a manager of producer personnel. As an agent, executive assistant. Like, is there anyone that you were like for week how you can see the before and after like before? I have this person. It not that it was a

show, but you were like this and you're like, after these people, you know, my life has gotten better.

Like I have someone on my team. For example, my VP of operations was put together for like 12 years. She's like my oh, you know how it's like she's like my my other half. And it works, so differently than mine. I feel like we share values and values. System, and we think about money the same way, and we laugh the same way.

We make stupid jokes in the same that she's got such a different skillset than I do. And honestly, I don't think I'd be saying or hear if it wasn't for her, you know? Yeah, a big, big difference when she came into my life. That's major. I feel like I have a role as, like my head of operations, that role.

And I've also. It's been so hard, I will it's like figuring that out, like like figuring out, like how for me to be a manager and a leader. Figuring out like what? Because I think my things that take up most of my time, it's like, JV can hear my podcast Queer Eye when we're filming and then like comedy and like writing, like, those are all like the things that like.

Yeah, and figuring out, like, what I need on my team versus like what? Maybe my podcasting is versus like what Gbbn hair needs and how like my company interacts with Gbbn here because like, I don't own Gbbn here. It's like a different thing. But, you know, I'm a founder and I like interact with them and I'm really involved.

So it's it's been like a long dance. But I think really the one that has made the biggest difference is I have I got a new business manager and they are so hardcore, and scary and like my old man, like my old business manager and like, and God bless them because, I mean, I was like with them for 10,000 years.

I'm someone who, like, I really don't like to switch. I like to like I'm I'm loyal to a fault, but sometimes it, like, can hurt me. So that's like something I'm like, kind of working through. But, and it all started because, again, my podcast, I interviewed Tori Dunlap, financial feminist. I don't know if you've ever heard of her.

She has this iPod. It's got her first hundred K, but I'm obsessed with her. I love her so much. And my old answer to like, stress was just like work more like mean the overhead that I got myself into. And then like hiring all these people and like doing everything because I like, I like I was like, oh my God.

And so I just like I just kept working and just kept saying, yes. And then like, but I never could say no, and I never had time off. And I was just like, oh my God, I'm freaking out. And I was like, how do you even do this? Because for years I would just like work, work, work.

And then I would impulse buy. Impulse buy. Then I would realize it was like September, and then I'd be like, oh,

I got to pay. Like, how much in taxes in December? And then I would, like, run myself in circles. And I was just stressed all the time. Then these people were like, so Tori Dunlap was like, this what I do.

And then I got these business managers that aligned. And so now, honey, I understand my budget, I understand my pals. I know what an EBITA is. I like, I, I get it, and I actually budget now and like so and I, you know, sometimes I

up and like, I don't exactly get to where, but my impulsivity is so much better.

And just kind of like eyes wide open knowing what. But the really uncomfortable part for this, for me, has been because I'm so impulsive and I like things to go fast. I made these really impulsive decisions with like, living arrangements and like, you know, my house and stuff, like in 2022. And I've been having to like, sit with the consequences of that for like so long.

And even with these business managers that impulsivity, just like all of it, it's it's been really interesting. I just turned 38. I feel like I'm at that age where I'm like, oh, it really is your decision making. It really is like, yes, it's your community. Yes, it's how you're supported. But also it's ultimately like how you set yourself up and like no one ever will care about your outcome as much as you will.

So you do have to kind of like make decisions so that you're not setting yourself up to, like, be impulsive or, you know, have your like your maladaptive coping strategies coming out and like taking care of you when you're overwhelmed. So it's been that's been a lesson. Yeah it is. I think it's an ever evolving dance. And there was a time like in my company where, you know, we had over 40 people and I just I love taking care of people.

It's part of my soul and it's part of who I am. And then I was coming to a new stage in my life where I was like, I just want later the year and, you know, all kinds of stuff. So I think it is it's like an ever evolving, dance with who I want to be and how we want to express ourselves.

Not so happy to hear that you're this is like. And by the way, we've talked about this so much off line because I love money and I love time, helping people just become free, whatever they need. Yes. And it has every different shape and shape, and no one's the same, but it's like it's such a it's such a worthwhile journey.

Anyway, we'll talk. We'll talk more about that. I want to shift on to comedy. Okay. So I just watched a comedy special literally last night. Fun. And thank you for watching it.

good. You're so funny, like Mariah. You're so funny. But I'm so curious. Like, I think you now have done three full shows. So hot in here.

Yes, yes. You just added new dates. We have a lot of viewers in Australia. You do? So I know you have new dates. I am, yeah, I'm going in. It's going to be September and I think. Yes, September. October. I always like straddles a month. But yeah I'm going to be in Auckland, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Sydney and Brisbane and I love Adelaide.

I have this like obsession with Adelaide as a half an hour time zone and I just like can't get over it. Like I just and every time I perform there, like my whole set goes out the window and I just like freak out about their half our time zone. I can't believe people can still come see me there because I just, you know, half my stats going to be about your 30 minute time zone.

Do you know about this? I don't I'm like you guys, they have it. So like okay. It would be like if New York was like it was like 10:00 here. But then like in Jersey it was 1030. Oh my gosh. Like it's a half an hour time zone like in Adelaide. It's a half an hour. I can't I think it's a half an hour behind Sydney.

So it's not an hour. It's like so like on the TV it'll be like 1030 Sydney like 10:00, but also there's a lot of 15, 40 fives. They'd be. They'd be like, they'd be like 1015 Sydney, 945 Adelaide. And there's something about I got my ADHD like niece like loving of niche things like that really like triggers me.

Okay, I have to ask how like, when did you know that you wanted to do stand up and how far between the idea of like, I want to do a stand up show between you getting your ass on stage and doing it? Because for me, it feels like being funny. There's a big chasm between being funny and having material to do.

A whole, it all started with Game of Thrones, and so that was like this recap series that I did. Funny or Die. We started it in like 2013, and this client of mine, who's Harry Dunn for 15,000 years, she's like, are you watching Game of Thrones? And I was like, oh, honey. And then I like, did this like impromptu recap.

And she was like, that's a web series. So that's how we started that ended up getting nominated for like three Emmys for like short form variety series. And it was actually like one of the like the first time that the Emmys ever did a short form variety series, which was their way of saying web series. We were like one of their inaugural nominees.

We got we lost to James Corden three times. Better time. So but, you know, nominations are also super cool. So, no. But seriously, thank you, Academy, I love you. If you're watching this. So, so that so the the second season of that, we got to do Margaret Cho and I was driving and I was at a red light and my Twitter like, came through and was like, Margaret Cho had like, been like, how do I get in your chair?

And I notoriously go and like her stand up from like 2000 to 2002 on like, but show was the first like, comedy special that I ever got, and it's the only thing I've ever shoplifted. I don't think they can see me any more from blockbuster, but it was like, I think it was like NC 17 and I was like 12, and my mom wasn't going to let me do it.

And I saw her on TV on like the late night Comedy Central stuff. And I really wanted to watch that special. And I just fell in love with her. I fell in love with stand up. She got me into, like, other comedians like Lisa Lampanelli, Wanda Sykes. I just grew up watching, like, all the queens of comedy.

So I always loved stand up and appreciated it. But I never thought like I could be a stand up comedian. So then when Margaret got in my chair, we did Gay of Thrones. The first thing she said to me, like, after like three, like, I mean, it wasn't the very first thing, but like, we did a couple lines and she's like, you're meant to be a stand up comedian.

And I was like, I'm meant to be your hairdresser. Where do you live? And she had just rapped Drop Dead Diva, which had been on lifetime for like nine seasons. She just moved back to L.A. she's like, I don't have a hairdresser right now. So I was like, please let me be your hairdresser. So I become her hairdresser.

She asks me to like, come with her to a couple shows. I start to see how comedy works, and by late 2015, I had a couple friends asked me to do some open mic nights. I did like a five minute here. I did a ten minute there, so between 15 and 18 I probably did like ten times just getting up, like writing little things at the salon, you know, someone to invite me to do, like an open mic.

So I did it like ten times, but I never made money from it. And I just was like, and I liked it, but I was like, I'm not going to like, get up at like 11:00 at night, like when I have to go to do a client at like seven in the morning on a Saturday. I just my priority was in the salon and, but I was like, this is cool.

It's like a fun thing to, to work. And I also felt like it helped me with Game of Thrones, like be funny in the moment and be used to like being uncomfortable while being watched. So I feel like I was like a good, like cross-training thing for whenever I did Game of Thrones. But then obviously when queer Eye happened, then all of a sudden, like, you know, my followers went up, you know, my platform went up.

And so then all of a sudden it was like, do you want a headline improv? Do you want to do like. So then I started doing like, Caroline's comedy, Hollywood improv, like, you know, like smaller like, but, you know, really iconic comedy clubs. Then by like April of 2019, I was like selling out Radio City. And what's interesting about that, though, is that, like, I was not ready, my comedy was not ready for Radio City.

And I actually, I think my comedy career, it's been interesting because I got overexposed and did all these venues that, like my comedy, wasn't ready for it. It wasn't good enough, like straight up, like I can imitate it was not good enough. You're so I was so going I mean, that was like. I mean, that was like.

And I was doing like hour sets when I was like.

I mean, I should have still been like workshopping that

in like, little clubs, but I was doing it at

Radio City. So that actually, I think kind of negatively impacted my comedy career. Like getting too big, too fast. And then I had to kind of like go back and like and just kind of work from, like the bottom back up again.

So now when I do an analysis I've just learned so much about, like the scene and how it works, like when you're like, so I did like, imagining living room Olympian then I, I did Road to Beijing, then I did imagine Living room Olympia, and then I did fun and slutty, now hot and heeled. So it's like now when I'm getting something together, I don't do it in theaters, like I do it in little comedy clubs, because that's how you're supposed to do it.

And you never film your special until you've been running your show for like at least a year or two, which I used to think that that I thought I needed like a new two or like every. No, like you're supposed to be working on your show for like a year, two years. So from the time I had the idea until when I started doing it was like pretty fast, but it took me like ten years to get to where I am.

That's amazing. It's as I loved as I was so much fun last night. Just thank you for watching Finance Lady. I was on a United flight the other day and I like saw on a United flight and it made me like kind of emotional, like being a queer comedian. It's like hard anyway. And like, comedy is like really such like a historically like such an all Burrows club.

So for anybody that's like queer, black woman, disabled, just any marginalized community, that's like not a straight man, or a straight white guy. It is like a little harder to get your foot in. And also when you're not, when you're not what everyone else is finding ways to, like, make that be funny or relatable to like a lot of people is even harder, which is why a lot of our comedians are, I think, more in line gender and, you know, sexual or their sexuality and their gender norms and their the way that they look, it informs your comedy, like your life experience informs or comedy, obviously.

And so I do think that that's like why so many like cis hat people are really successful in this space because they're seen as more relatable. So it's even harder for someone that's like in a dress that's, you know, a sign male at birth, that's gender queer. That's like doing their own thing. It's it's harder to break through.

And I think that that and I also just would say like Veep, that's like the place that bought my special and put it on. I just I'm so grateful that they believed in me. They gave me this shot. They like they let me edit my material they like. It was just amazing. I had such a fun experience doing it.

I hope I get to do it again. Yeah, I think you will. I think you think you you just you're so you're so good at it. And I love that you were telling the pilot for the first time when you were in Australia, like, oh my God, the HIV joke. And and I just love that you were just like, it just fell.

Did not work. Yeah, but I want to talk about this too, because it's, you know, where we started. Like, there's so many people feeling afraid to be judged or to be criticized and one of the two jillion things. But I love and appreciate about you. It's like, hey, I wanna do this joke, and I'm out here and there's literally thousands of people in the crowd and

crickets.

Yeah, well, and I was just I just ended up being one of the funniest jokes ever. So what was that like of just like that feeling, like, did you have a sinking in your summary? Like, oh my God, this was a stinker. Well, yeah. So just so you guys know, I this joke was like, I was in Australia.

It was like 2022. And I said I was, I had this bit where I would say like I'm HIV positive. This was my second pandemic. And and, but everyone else when I had been doing that joke was like living for it. But for some reason, I, and I don't remember what city I was in. I can't remember if it was what city I was in, but it just like no one laughed and all the wind just, like, left the room.

And I felt in the moment, I felt like a lot of shame because I was like, oh, like people must think like, who is it? Like the HIV? Like, why are you people like, why is no laughing? But then I realized I was like, girl, it's a language barrier. I don't think they

understood how you said age because like down there, they don't say age like that.

They say heights. Well, then when you slipped into. When I watched it last night and you did that whole Australian, I was just like your physical comedy. And I feel like that's really where I shine. Well, you shine a lot of places. But also, like, there was one moment where you were squatting, oh, yes, in the dress. And like, squatting.

Yes, the squat jumps, the Adam's apple. Losing my.

I swear, I hope they don't deport me. I oh, I feel like they're going to start. I feel like I'm going to be like top of their list. Girl. I hope they don't watch it. I really need this administration and I just need like I really need like I need no Republicans to watch finance lady on United.

No, no, please. There needs to be a new rating system for like, no, like NRA, like no Republicans allowed. It's like we'll like rebrand the NRA, you know, like no Republicans allow girl. Like it's just it's not safe. Oh my God. You're going to keep doing amazing comedy and it's going to be

brilliant. Okay. So you're insanely good at being the like for other people.

I often am for the folks in my life. And I have some symbols, like I'm my best friend if I am, like, in a spiral, you know, I mean, our

has just gone sideways and I'm like, you know, there's alarm lights. I send, an ambulance emoji like that back that I don't understand any words. It's just like the moment you are free, I need to phone a friend.

Who is the person or people that you call. You know what I mean? When you're, like, on the phone, it really depends. On what? Yes. Usually I think like 95% of the time it's going to be my husband. Yeah, I think my mom's also up there. If if it's like, if it's a family situation. My mom. Yeah.

Like, I'll make you believe what this

just did. So if it's family or, like, interpersonal, probably my mom or, like, my husband, if, like, if it's interpersonal, if it's business, then it's like someone else who kind of, like, knows about it. But I do have, like, two of my best friends, like, I definitely really appreciate their advice.

Probably like more than other. I just like, prioritize it, like a little bit higher. There's these like two people. One because she is fully on the spectrum and, she just doesn't. She gives it to me, Harris gives it to me. Real just I mean, she doesn't she's not sugarcoating anything. Where is my other bestie? She is equally as real, but she has a little bit more like she can see if I'm, like, bleeding out.

Like, it's not the time. Like, she'll like, you know, like, she could be, like, a little bit more gentle. But whereas my other bestie is like, she's like

wrecking ball Miley Cyrus, like, she's going to tell you like that thing that, like, you know, all of your friends talk about about you, but like, they know no one like what I tell you.

Like, she's going to tell you that thing, like at the funeral for, like, you know, your mom's funeral or something, but God love her. I mean, I can't get enough of her. I love her so much. She's like, she had that bestie as, like, so she has this healing part. Speaking of ifs, that is like so major. Like, it's like it's such a, like her healing part is just like, but but then then I saw healing her like, goes offline.

Yeah. Okay. I only have you for another moment or two because you need to get into a very important meeting. Last two questions. You've so many beautiful projects already in the cooker. Is there any of them that are, like, just bringing you so much life and so much joy right now that you just me shine some light on?

And then if there's anything that you want to leave our audience with today, I mean, I feel like I did it or I feel like we left on the dance or like I'm given here. We have some really cool things coming out this year. I'm really excited for Let Them Stare more with Jaden here, by the way, because you are the drag queen.

Let's start like, let's do you have natural wave? This is just a ball. Yeah. Thanks to Jaden blow out Malik. I love our blob. Malik, this is air dry cream. Well, the air dry clean is what saved me because it's making my

last, last. So people talk to me about this, and I never use air dry clean for this.

But people talk about it being like really good for refreshing a blow dry brushing. And it's an extender in my experience. So we're going to do more about that. So okay we talked about obviously love and yeah my comedy Queer Eye. Yes. But wait you guys are filming next season. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know we don't know.

You don't have to go there. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Whatever. We love it. And whenever. Well I would say I mean look they're casting. Yeah I mean they talked about it so. Yeah. Yeah I mean they talked about it. Yes I think, I think it just. Yeah. So we are whatever. But anyway, whenever it arises, I'm going to be there with Malcolm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Any other projects and anything else that we want to shine light on, I think. No, just getting better every Wednesday. We kind of like, we, like our Monday episodes. I used to do beauty where I like, I was always like, interviewing like beauty founders, which is really fun. I loved it. Then I realized I felt like I was trying to create like two really excellent, perfect podcasts.

And then I feel like it was, like, detracting from each other. And so then I just wanted to like our senior producer, Chris has been one of my best friends for like ten years. We met in LaGuardia in 2015. We've been working together for the last like four years. They helped me, produce, getting curious for Netflix, I just, I love them.

Their husband is a is our sound engineer and so we wanted to give like and we're all queers. Like just having fun making this. Well it's not always fun, but making this podcast, like getting through it. And so the Monday edit is like really where I wanted to take like politics, culture, the behind the scenes of my life of Chris and, and Chris.

And I was like, we also do like, listener questions on the Monday edit. So we kind of rebranded our Mondays again. So that's a Monday edit. It's not on video. Just wherever you listen to your podcasts, you can get on the getting Better feed. And then our Getting Better is every Wednesday, which you can get on YouTube or wherever you listen.

So we're loving that. So, Anything else you want to leave? Oh, I don't know. Yeah. You know what else? What? Only the audience that, I think. Take care. And, midterms. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I'm excited for midterms next year. Yes. Well, you, you just such a joy, and I adore, I adore you. Yes.

And we'll have more as a thank you for being on. And thanks, everyone for watching. Until next time, stay on your game. Keep going for your big dreams, because the world needs that very special gift that only you have.

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