Marie Forleo introduction

Hi!

I'm Marie

You have gifts to share with the world and my job is to help you get them out there.

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Does fear hold you back from making your most important contributions? With the pace of technology and change, are you worried about being left behind or becoming irrelevant?

Today I’m talking with a friend who also happens to be one of my favorite women on the planet, Dr. Brené Brown.

As usual, our conversation is raw, real and deep. Nothing is held back and we share some things we’ve both never said publicly before. This conversation on courage, leadership and vulnerability is not to be missed.

Choose courage over comfort, choose whole hearts over armor, and choose the great adventure of being brave and afraid, at the exact same time. @BreneBrown #DareToLead Click To Tweet

Brené’s brilliant and powerful new book, ”Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts.”, is the culmination of a seven-year study on what it means to be a courageous leader. She unearthed some surprising truths about what holds us back from being brave, open-hearted and effective. (Hint: fear is not it.)

Don’t think you’re a “leader”? Not so fast. Brené defines a leader as “anyone who takes responsibility for finding the potential in people and has the courage to develop that potential.” That includes you.

Join us for a rich conversation as we unpack the wisdom in her new book, including:

  • Why Brené wants you to stop using her (or your idea of her) as a way to snuggle up to your own self-doubt.
  • The “huge epiphany” that destroyed her theory about leadership — and led her to write a book she said she’d never write.
  • What the world’s bravest leaders have in common (and the one surprising thing they don’t).
  • How we feel social pain in the exact same way we feel physical pain… a must-listen if you share anything online and fear criticism and cruelty.
  • Plus, how courage is a bonafide teachable skill. Yes, really. There is an actual, proven method that will help you become braver.

Check out this episode on The Marie Forleo Podcast

Listen Now

As mentioned, you can learn more and gain access to additional resources at the Dare To Lead Hub.  

Now, Brené and I would love to hear from you.

Which part of our conversation resonated most with you and why? What can you do to turn that insight into action right now?

Leave a comment below and let us know. Remember, share as much detail as possible in your reply. Thousands of incredible souls come here each week for insight and motivation, and your story may help someone else have a meaningful breakthrough.

Important: share your thoughts and ideas directly in the comments. Links to other posts, videos, etc. will be removed.

Now more than ever, we need brave folks like you to be clear, kind and stand up for what’s right.

Thank you for sharing your heart, voice and perspective. Most of all, thanks for stepping up and using this conversation as your catalyst to become an even braver leader.

With enormous love,

XO

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198 comments

  1. Loved this episode!

  2. I swear everything Brené says touches my soul. I had never heard of her before your interview last year, and then I just had to buy Braving the Wilderness and it was INCREDIBLE. I would say life-changing.

    I wouldn’t call myself a leader, and yet, I run a company called Map Your Potential, where I pretty much just help find the potential in people, and help them access that potential in a way which works for them… So this will definitely be on my to-read list!

    As a Neuroscience (MSc) postgraduate, the aspects of emotional pain versus physical pain was one of the biggest eye-openers, so Brené’s talk about social pain really struck a chord for me.

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      We’re so happy Brené’s work is inspiring for you, Katy-Rose! Braving the Wilderness is absolutely fantastic, too. You are 10000% a leader in the work you do to help others access their potential, and we hope Dare to Lead will help spark some new ideas and insights for you around how to keep doing so! Thanks so much for listening today 🙂

  3. I can’t pick just one thing that impacted me…life changing!

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      SO glad to hear this, Janelle! Isn’t Brené amazing?

  4. Sheryl

    Marie… OMG..Seriously I love both of you so much.. this podcast is so FREAKEN REAL WISE, funny, validating, ME TOO, Inspiring and filled with information that opens my HEART and MIND . I am So grateful for the work you and Brene put in the world .. thanks for your service and showing up vulnerable and REAL…!!!oxoxoxSheryl

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      And we’re so grateful for you, Sheryl! Thrilled to hear you were inspired by this conversation with Brené! Thank you, for all the kind words. XOXO

  5. Hello Marie and Brene,
    I just want to thank you very much for this enlightening and fulfilling podcast. I am a huge fan of Dr. Brenè Brown and I have read all the past books. I am going to buy Dare to lead as well. I believe that if Dr. Brown’s books and talks were part of school teaching programs from high-schools, the world would become a much better place. Please continue to inspire the world.

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      Isabella – wouldn’t that be a powerful addition to our school systems and so transformative for future generations of leaders! You’re going to LOVE Dare to Lead. Thank you for tuning in and being such a wonderful part of our community!

  6. This has been one of the most openly honest conversations I have heard for some time. This whole conversation screams respect dignity integrity and dare I say the value of being the best human being you can be. Thankyou. I am listening from Australia. “My story is …. these are real leading ladies and I wish I could meet you both.
    I coach on healthy living and being the best person you can be first for themselves so they can be there for others.

  7. lois lane

    The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure…find the cave! That is awesome. I’m using this book at my Leader Beach Retreat next week 🙂

  8. Deborah Dobson

    I loved hearing about the difficulties you both have experienced when you spoke your truth publicly. We are going through very challenging times right now and women (like me and probably you) especially are feeling frustrated, sad and downright angry about the politics in our country.
    I teach dog behavior at my local community college and one of my goals in this class is to raise my students’ awareness, not only about their pups, but about all animals. So, I sent them a sad, shocking email about all the factory farm animals here in our state (North Carolina) who were left to die when Hurricane Florence recently swept through. I figured I might as well speak my truth early on and apparently it motivated one woman to call me an “activist” (yes I am, and I’m proud of it!) and drop out of the class.
    Well, that’s OK – realistically, I know I can’t please all of the people all of the time. But I know I can plant some seeds and hope for the best.
    Keep talking, keep airing out these uncomfortable issues and eventually, they won’t be issues any more.

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      Deborah, we’re glad to hear this conversation struck a chord with you. You’re so brave – keeping speaking your truth and sharing your important perspectives and values with the world. It’s needed – and as you said, by continuing to talk about these uncomfortable issues we can begin to resolve and work through them, together.

    • Helen

      Thanks for speaking up Deborah! This was my favourite part of the conversation also. The people who want us to be silent are simply not our audience, and that’s ok! We have voices for a reason, and you used yours for other beings that couldn’t speak for themselves… Keep planting the seeds and together we will all grow an incredible garden😊🙏💜🌿

  9. You and Brené had me at Hello! I armored up last week and didn’t really realize it. I’ve been feeling”off” and couldn’t put my finger on it…within 5 minutes of listening, I figured it out. Thank you for always being so inspiring!

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      We’ve all been there (countless times!) Kris, and we’re really happy that Brené was able to help shed some light on what’s been going on for you recently. Keep tuning into yourself and those feelings when they arise – we’re all always learning to keep our hearts open! xoxo

  10. This literally almost makes me teary. As a leadership coach and facilitator, I have to hold onto hope that people can/will choose to engage in this kind of authentic communication with each other. Brene is right – our armor is what is holding us all back. I am hopeful that we can and will strip down, throw it off, and bring our true, full selves into our places of work. We need courageous people who will model this and pave the way for others. I’m committing to being one of them. So grateful for this whole conversation – THANK YOU for sharing such empowering, positive content, Marie!

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      Amy – this is so lovely to hear. You put it beautifully and YES – the world needs courageous people like yourself to keep having open-hearted conversations like this. We’re thrilled that this was inspiring for you. Keep being the amazing leader you are; we admire your commitment!

  11. Jana Kolcova

    Another amazing episode full of hearty wisdom! I love your and Brene’s honesty (had to giggle about Brene’s ‘dress code’ and your sprint to get the USB connector before recording the episode), big heart and zest and zeal for all things life! We’re so lucky to have such incredibly gifted women whose impacted my life in so many ways. Can’t wait to get my hands on Brene’s latest book (still not selling in the UK) and on yours, Marie! Thank you both for all that you do! 🙂 xxx

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      Thank you for these kind words, Jana! Love hearing that this brought you some giggles 🙂 You’re going to LOVE the book! xo

  12. Thank you so much! for being so inspiring courageous women! I love you both!

  13. The timing of this podcast couldn’t have been more perfect for me. I needed to hear the brilliance from both of you for many, many reasons–personally and professionally. You’ve just handed me some words I can use for a situation I am struggling with so much it has knocked me way down. I literally shouted “YES, that’s what I’ve been trying to say” when I heard Brene voice the words. I have followed both of you on sm, but this is the first I’ve taken the time for myself to LISTEN to either of you and I am grateful to receive this message today.

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      Wonderful, Steph. We’re so glad this message was well-timed and that you made this time for yourself today 🙂 We’re sending loads of love your way. Keep being exceedingly kind to YOU.

  14. This! All of this. Brene is just inspiring, and the two of you together are a force. I started my morning listening to this fantastic conversation. Thank you both!

  15. amy

    What does support look like right now? Yes! I love this!! Thank you!!

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      Isn’t that such a powerful question to ask, Amy?!

    • Sheri Cowan

      LOVE!

  16. Nathan Wall

    Thank you for this great episode! As a Canadian, I find it inspiring to find Americans speaking up about what is right and just in the world. It gives me hope that America can change and grow with leaders such as yourselves speaking out about what is right and wrong. It goes hand in hand with the work you both do to inspire people to live their best lives.
    Thank you for this great podcast as it gave me some new insight over how to handle different situations at work and how to get courageous about creating and growing my own brand online.
    Keep up the great work!

  17. Tree

    This was really inspiring. I love the talk about being afraid and having courage anyway at the same time. I struggle a ton with fear and, unfortunately, allowed fear to override my courage. But, today is a new day and this podcast really helped me to take a bold leap! So thanks ladies❤❤

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      YES – today is a new day, Tree! Keep moving outside of your comfort zone. And remember, brave and afraid, at the same time 🙂

  18. Wow! So much wisdom. Brene is blessed with the language to take concepts we can’t quite grasp and grounding them in ways that are accessible and relatable. Thank you. thank you, thank you!
    My two big takeaways were, first, the idea that we are not talking about the fear/ shame of being irrelevant in our careers. I feel this. I didn’t have the words to talk about it – now I do. This is something I want to explore in much more depth.
    The second was the idea/phrase, “I don’t know what to say right now, but thank you for telling me.” combined with “What does support look like right now?” Brilliant. Language that I struggle with but desperately needed.
    What a great interview. Thanks Marie!

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      These are such powerful takeaways, Nicole! Really happy that Brené’s wisdom and language in these particular areas were helpful for you, and hope they’ll serve you well in your leadership. Thank you for being here!

  19. Linda Smith

    Okay. So I loved the entire podcast and learned a great deal about what I need to ask for in others and of myself. The amour I wear certainly keeps me out of the cave- without a doubt.
    I can’t help but wonder, Brene, if you have been ill in light of the political turmoil we’ve been facing. You gals allude to the physical manifestation of sickness during/after being emotionally attacked. Perhaps the sinus infection hung on longer than needed as a result of people punishing you for being brave.
    Not an MD- just an observation.
    Love your work and thank you for introducing me to Marie Forleo; I must have been under a rock as I was not acquainted with her work. I am a fan now!

  20. Of all of the Marie TVs and podcasts I listened to …. THIS. MOVED. ME. I absolutely loved this discussion, it aligns with a class I taught this past Saturday, and I am definitely sharing. Thank you. So very much wisdom!

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      It means so much to know this conversation resonated deeply you, Gina. Thank you for listening and sharing with others – we appreciate you! Keep up the amazing work 🙂

  21. First, what an amazing, relevant conversation – it brought tears to my eyes – it’s what I want to do, who I want to be and what the world needs right now and the starting point just dropped in my lap. Thank you. And thank you for talking about the public shaming aspect of things. I’d love to see Brene team up with Michael Moore and make a documentary film sharing this information and showing it put it into practice.

  22. Patti Pestana

    So many points hit home. In particular, showing up when you can’t control outcomes. Leaning into vulnerability, not in terms of being a Daring Leader, but simply a Daring Human, Daring Wife, Daring Daughter, Daring Friend.
    I know (and it makes so much sense to me now) this has a ton to do with the stories I tell myself.
    Brené and Marie, thank you for the work you do, the message you share and being freaking fabulous women!

  23. Hi Marie, always wonderful and insightful! Thank you! The part that resonates most with me is “hiding behind perfectionism” Ouch. I’m guilty. I’m about to launch something new and have been obsessed over details that are unimportant and are holding the project back! I’m on it! xo Mari

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      That’s a big one for many of us, Mari – you’re not alone! It’s so exciting that you’re getting ready to launch. You’re SO close! The world needs what you have to offer, so remember that you can always adjust and iterate as you put it out there and learn from experience 🙂

  24. WOW! I’m not sure I can put my thoughts into words right now. Tears are streaming down my face! The scotus fiasco triggered so many of my issues and I posted about it and was attacked by several people and the pain was almost as palpable as the assaults that I experienced in the past! As far as my business and leadership goes, Thanks for that role play! I was caught off guard last week during a difficult discussion and although I’m not nearly as smooth as Marie Forleo (is anyone?) I was able to ask the questions and change the dialogue so we can work together to solve the problems. So I really appreciate that support! But finally, the reason for my tears… I run a tiny business, my team of 6 sub-contractors serve about 300 people a week using music therapy to help them overcome a wide range of neurological challenges. It is amazing to watch the transformations that happen in our work! But I am also working to expand my own personal practice as a business and wellness coach but so many times I feel like a fraud! I started my Music Therapy business after being laid off from a job I loved and then due to a nasty divorce, I have lived in survival mode for several years which led to major health issues. I have no measurable financial security and as an aging baby boomer I live in constant fear that I won’t be able to provide for my retirement. So I thank you for allowing me to be courageous through that fear! You have both been so inspiring and I attribute much of my success to the wisdom of Brene Brown and Marie Forleo! MUCH LOVE AND HUGE THANK YOU!!! (and your amazing teams as well!)

    • Julia - Team Forleo

      We’re sending huge hugs your way, Debi! Wow – you’ve been through so much in recent years and it’s amazing that you’ve launched a successful, growing business amid these personal challenges. You’re incredible, woman!

      We’re so glad this roleplay around effective leadership and dialogue was helpful for you. And you are most definitely not alone in having that fear – remember, it’s okay to be afraid and keep moving forward with courage. You’re going to be completely okay, more than okay! Keep sharing your incredible gifts with the world 🙂 XOXO

  25. Renee

    Brown is very informative and intuitive and I was very inspired by her vulnerability Ted Talk because it spoke to my relationship. I took so much from this interview and the rawness of it. The supportive interaction between the two of you is great that we are all real and not always our best selves—always learning. However, why post anything on social media, if you’re “not reading the comments?” I realize people—women especially—are prickly and tend to bring each other down as opposed to lifting each other up—who aren’t constructive and open. So why even bother with social media postings if it hurts you at some level or if the comments become too inane, and they will. Still, stand ground and be there. Interact with those who support (or may not) a statement from you, or those who ask constructive questions, or those who offer intelligent debate…but don’t just let it go as I can’t be hurt by it. I’m speaking to myself as well.

  26. Tha Keo

    Thank you😀! The ‘value + pasion= gift’.

  27. Tha Keo

    Passion*

  28. Kathryn

    So grateful for this amazing conversation between these two wonderful women; THANK YOU BOTH!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Thank you for listening in, Kathryn! It makes us so happy to know you enjoyed it. 🙂

  29. Again Brene Brown was able to motivate me to go deeper. She is right, her value and talent is taking detailed information and explaining it in a way that makes sense for us humans to understand and simply apply to our life. As I am getting ready to launch a new business. I never thought as myself as a leader, but after listening to her description of how to be a leader, I recognized myself as one, especially since I will be teaching people how to move their bodies with harmony. It was so helpful for me to hear Brene explain and understand my value, and lean into my purpose as a teacher/leader. For me being a leader is a responsibility and if I don’t take armor off then I’m creating a barrier between myself and my clients. That is not leadership at its best- leadership is being whole hearted, sincere and loving. The other a ha moment was the difference between empathy and sympathy, and how that relates to helping others. I love this quote for showing empathy to someone -“I don’t even know what to say right now, but I’m so glad you told me. What does support look like right now and how can I help. Sympathy: “You know what, that never really happened to me, so I feel sad for you.” Such different tones. My take away from this interview: Stay curious, stay open, take off the armor, be wholehearted. Thank you Brene and Marie for being such an inspiration and leaders with a very important purpose.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Yay, Deborah! You are a leader! We’re super excited for you about your new business launch and we’re proud of you for making your dreams happen. Thank you for doing so with a curious, open, heart that’s wide open with compassion.

  30. So challenging to put into words how much this episode, Brene’s new book, and Marie (and Team Forleo) means to me and my life. Inspiring, touching, courageous (it’s contagious!). Will be re-listening to this episode and reading Brene’s book over and over. Thank you, Marie and Team Forleo! Thank you, Brene!

  31. Thank you for having Dr. Brené Brown on again. I love her and Marie is so right, she is a national treasure. I always learn something new and I think she speaks knows how to speak directly to our soul/higher selves. I just finished Braving the Wilderness. I am super psyched there is a new book out. I will have to pick this up. My favorite part was the empathy discussion. I am so sick of hearing that would should focus on compassion. Empathy provides the person you are there for the sense that you are really present for them. I have experienced compassion as more dismissive…….like the person isn’t really there for me. I may not be describing that correctly. I am rushing this.

    And I loved the quote What does support look like right now? I will be using this from now on.

    Thank you again Marie and Dr Brown. You both continually improve my world.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      So glad Brené’s wisdom spoke to you, Monica! We hope you love Dare to Lead as much as we did. 🙂

  32. Asil Mcallister

    So much insightful info. Sometimes it’s just a small shift in perception that’s needed. For example, I like the notion of approaching a difficult situation/conversation by “being curious.” I also appreciated Brene’s points regarding empathy.

  33. Ivi

    OMG – Thank you some much for this powerful and vulnerable conversation
    Marie you should have another warning besides”adult language and headphones”…. I needed a warning about kleenex and tears in the middle of the office…

  34. Samira

    The synergy of you two truly inspires, thank you!
    I cried with insight dings and scars touched so many times that I am gonna listen again and take notes!
    Thank you!!!!!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s beautiful, Samira! It’s great to hear this episode resonated with you. We appreciate you checking it out and hope it continues to inspire you on your journey.

  35. Shelly Williams

    Marie and Brené, thank you both SO much for sharing such incredibly inspiring wisdom! So many of your insights really spoke to me, especially what you said about social pain hurting just as much as physical pain. One thing that breaks my heart are all the cruel responses I’ve seen online recently to people who have shared their stories of assault in such vulnerable ways. I want to somehow use my voice to help create a space for empathy and healing. I will get Dare To Lead as my first step. Thank you for reminding me that I can make a difference and that this—as everything else—is figureoutable. Many blessings to you both!

  36. Tamara Reading

    I love and adore you both… how grateful I am in this moment to have had the honor of listening to you this morning. I commit to checking in with myself regularly to ask “do I have my armor up or am I being courageous”? I am running to my local Barnes & Noble right now to pickup Brene’s Book!
    Thank you both for being so courageous with your own lives…. I continue to be inspired by the work you each do and that you are willing to say YES to what you’ve been called to do.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Awesome, Tamara! That’s such a great way to check in with yourself and get in tune with the present moment. That’s an act of courage too. 🙂

  37. i love you both individually, but together….deadly. Thanks for that puff of wind beneath my wings. xoxo Robyn #happiesbetter

  38. Just made it through 7+ minutes. Love this teaching – it’s so resonant with where I’m at and why/how I facilitate my work. Yes to courageous leadership, rocking this decade and way beyond. Go Team Courageous With Heart. I’m in! May we live with respect and compassion for our human condition and live into our fullest potential.

  39. Ikwo

    I did not expect to find this podcast so insightful. In some ways, it tells me I am not crazy for believing the things I have, especially in my personal relationships, even though I have never quite been able to articulate them properly. On the other hand, my mind is blown away by the new depths explored. Thank you for being real and brave.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      You’re not crazy at all, Ikwo––pinky promise. It’s so good to hear you found this episode was validating and inspiring!

  40. Abby

    Wow, Marie!
    Thank you so much for this interview/podcast. It wasn’t just one thing that resonated with me. It’s different things and they speak to me across different areas of my life. Two, in particular, being ‘making up stories’ and how to use that idea in conversations, and how to respond when we hear what seems to be criticism. I also really appreciate your response in the role play. As Brene (sorry I can’t type accents on my keyboard now) said, you nailed it. I must admit that this was a bit of painful one for me. It caused me to reflect on a recent situation that I now would 120% have handled differently if I had this insight before. As they say, ‘hindsight is good, but foresight is even better’.
    Thanks a million for this podcast, and I pray you grow from strength to strength.
    Abby

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      So glad this tip was helpful, Abby! And the good news is that you’ll have foresight going forward.

  41. Laura Nunnelly

    I have been a fan for awhile. Gifts of Imperfections saved me from self-destruction. I am behind on reading some of her books but i will definitely read this one!. I like that she continually reminds us to work with purpose and she stated it again today when speaking about leading. This is so accurate. I have worked with leaders who had no real purpose except to please their boss. This makes for a difficult working environment, so this advice is spot on!

  42. Glenda Clemens

    Thank you Marie and Brene! I’ve listened to many of your conversations and loved them and learned from them. Today my husband listened in and loved this episode too. Thought we are in our later years of life we keep learning and living.

    Thanks
    Glenda

  43. Coleen Parsons

    I am loving this. Thank you –

    I have Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s (my birthday buddy!) Astrophysics For Busy People in my half-bath!

    Thanks for reminding me that everything is indeed figureoutable.

    Cheers!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s such a good book! I hope you enjoyed it. I found Neil’s many beautiful quotes especially striking.

  44. Maggie Brennan

    I was recently in a job review where 2 supervisors spent 2.5 hours analyzing my work. Although I was rated as “highly effective” in many categories, they never once gave me a compliment. There was absolutely no “love talk” or emphasis on what I do well. Every single comment was based on what I do wrong or how I could improve. Staying open and willing in those situations is SO HARD!
    So how do we take her advice, be courageous, talk openly and honestly about our strengths, when our bosses wont treat us that way in return? I always feel like I’m not given a chance to lead, or a chance to do my best work because of someone above me who wants to keep me down for whatever reason. Am I just blaming my shortcomings on someone else? Or am I truly hampered and held back because of someone else’s agenda and not necessarily because of my abilities? I don’t know where to draw that line. Any advice would be truly appreciated. Thanks.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really good question, Maggie! Sometimes it can be a challenge to create the kind of company culture you want and that would be supportive when you’re not the head honcho, but Marie has some great tips for changing your company culture from the inside and how you can make it more of what you want it to be: https://www.marieforleo.com/2015/09/change-company-culture/ I hope this helps!

  45. Heather

    Brene said something like “How did I change people’s lives and they don’t even see me.” I think that might be the nature of celebrity; public people change people’s lives all the time but they aren’t seen as fully who they are. In some ways it’s beautiful that you can change people’s lives who aren’t like you (at all). You get to them through a side door. It’s harder to change people through the front door of politics; people see politics and they act/react to protect themselves. This obviously got me thinking quite a bit. I run a business and always have these public/private self thoughts. I also loved the discussion about vulnerability versus oversharing; I wish everyone could see this distinction. So important! I don’t usually care for podcasts but this was great; I loved the frankness of the talk.

  46. This whole conversation really resonated with me. Especially the part Brene said about how she teaches people to be brave and then they tell her not to be when she shares her truth. As I have become more in the spotlight with my career I have actually enjoyed it a lot less than I expected. People’s judgements and projections can be a lot to handle on a regular basis. Thanks to you both for being so honest and real about the struggles that can come about.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      So true, Sarah. We’re so glad this episode came as your popularity is growing and hope that Brené’s words will be a source of wisdom and inspiration as you’re in the public eye.

  47. Tara Yamauchi-Lum

    I loved this interview! I found myself nodding yes to a lot of what Brene was describing, especially about armoring up. I still find it challenging at times to “unshield” myself, though this is a practice and I’m making it a point to be more aware.

    Thank you for an inspiring start to my day. I’m gonna buy Brene’s new book now!

    Tara

  48. KayCee

    Omigoodness, this conversation touches on all that is front and center in my life. I appreciate every word and will listen on repeat because who doesn’t love a gift that keeps on giving?

    You talked about people rejecting your opinions and beliefs that are outside their comfort zone. Brené was shamed for posting something political—as in not spiritual. Her response is everything! That bold truth more than resonates, it breaks me open. I’m comforted, encouraged and empowered, in the scariest of times, to see you and feel you as leaders, Marie and Brené. Love you both. So grateful.

  49. Lynn Nye

    Thank you for spelling-it-out for me, and giving me words to use.

  50. Kerry Harvey

    Holy cats! I had to listen to this multiple times. Two of my favorite, real deal women. So many gold nuggets in this episode.
    “Empathic failure is more likely to happen with people who have had the exact same experience.” Yes! Because your version of your divorce, death of a loved one, job loss, etc., doesn’t look like theirs did and they can’t relate outside of their own experience. People see us not as we are but as THEY are.
    “If a condition for you following me (or being my friend) is for me to stay quiet on things I believe in then you are following the wrong person.” Yes! Being liked/loved should not be contingent upon being likable/lovable.
    “What does support look like right now?” I know I am terrible at asking for help. I just wrote this on a post-it and stuck it up in front of me.
    I have all of Brene’s books and always look forward to new episodes of Marie TV.
    I can’t wait for the LinkedIn read along.
    Thank you so much for yet another amazing episode.
    #braveandafraid #iamthefuckingwilderness

  51. Nancy

    This is my favourite podcast so far! It was like if you were talking to me. Thank you Brené and Marie. I’ll be a better leader starting today because of you. Curiosity is the leader tool. Stay curious and be brave. I will.
    Nancy

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Yay, Nancy! So glad this one is your favorite. We hope you’ll return to it again and again. 🙂

  52. Kathryn

    Purchased! Audio & hardback! Thank you again and again for your work.

  53. Kelli Adams

    Thank you for getting me through until my copy arrives in the mail today!! Love this podcast episode. So, so good!

  54. Dawn

    Love Brene and Marie!
    So full of wisdom and hope. The entire interview was amazing and inspiring, though here are a few notes I’ll share:

    “Have you stayed in any relationship way too long because of being afraid of the discomfort a conversation will bring? Vulnerability is about embracing the suck…. Staying present during difficult moments despite the fear….”

    …People with highest resilience are upfront about the stories they are telling themselves and then having the courage to go beneath the story to really know what’s going on in any relationship …

    …Fear, Armored or endearing leadership… masks or vulnerable/courage…

    …hustling or truly knowing your own value you bring to your place/peeps/ family/tribe…

    Courage is figureoutable!! (Even physicist believe, see Neil de Grass Tyson quote!)

    Thanks amazing women for giving me the tools to find my way to courage! ❤️

    Be well,
    Dawn

  55. TAWNY

    I loved this episode and it really hit home for me this morning as I’m trying to be courageous in my every day conversations. I’m fearful everyday in what I say and always trying new things I learn to find out what’s successful for me. I was almost in tears listening to this and about people not letting you be you. I loved the role play. I also loved that Marie stated she did love languages team building and I want to do that with my team. How did you do this? Would love more info. Did you have somebody go over the results with the team and each person or what questions did you use to open that discussion with the team? I love you both and who you are! Keep fighting for what you believe in. We need people like you to continue to push us and moving us forward.

  56. Dare to Lead…..ladies!

  57. Thank you, Brene’ and Marie.

    Most impactful: What does support look like right now?

    I feel like I need to listen to this again. Such a rich conversation and I love that tried and true principles are being tested and science agrees – human connection and service to others are the greatest qualities of a leader. Hands down.

  58. “How could you let me change your life, but not know who I am?” You were both talking about how painful it is when people “unfollow” when you make political statements.

    I lead a lot of women out of bondage and pain – that is my Divine gifting, it is WHY I’m here, but it is not WHO I am. I am not the freedom. I am not the epiphany. People have your WHY confused with your WHO.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      So well said, Mary! This is such a wise insight––thank you for sharing it.

  59. Amber

    What a great episode. Touched on so many things! 💗

  60. I love this so much. I ssssooooo wish this was live because I had my hand up 1-million times (alone in my dining room office) to ask questions and comment. This is so, so, so important! I love you both and the 2 of you together are outstanding! Thank you so much for all the work you both do!

    Brene Brown, I have loved and followed you from that first Ted talk. Thank you. I cannot thank you enough for the work you do. You may never know how much it’s touched my life but it has! THANK YOU!

  61. Delisa Richardson

    I loved Brene’s comments about not caring if people Unfollowed her for speaking her mind. I’ve been trying to tow the neutral line and keep from offending, but as things get more cruel and bitter I can’t stay on the fence for fear of upsetting or alienating others. If they truly knew me and my heart there wouldn’t be an issue. SO much rich information in this episode!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Right on, Delisa! Being yourself and speaking your truth is so important, and we believe it helps attract the kind of people you most want to your audience.

  62. I really appreciated hearing the phrase and the context in which it was given “What does support look like to you right now?”

    Was my ’empathetic mode’ on “off” when, in reply to [adult child] heading out the door to work after a weekend visit expressed “It’s off to the foglands now….” I said “The [his name] I knew and know has clarity, is alert, focused – how can you bring those wonderful qualities of yours there to your work/the situation?”

  63. Thank you for this offering. Of all the value I received in listening to your interview, the most impactful is your frank discussion of the insult and pain it causes when you realize people who “love” you don’t see you–and worse, when they have disdain or disrespect for your values.
    As a white cis woman, I feel like it is my responsibility to be as overt as I can about my attempts to subvert white supremacist patriarchy. I am not on social media, but my partner showed me your (Marie’s) post pledging faith in Dr. Ford’s testimony. It was my favorite moment of being inspired by you so far; as much as I have loved your content over the past two years, this is the clearest I have felt that you share my values of truth and liberation. Thank you for your solidarity with unheard people, and thank you for letting us know about it .
    I hope I am putting the insight I gained into action RIGHT NOW by stepping out of my analogue comfort zone and speaking up in this forum. I want to participate in more conversations with more people as myself. I want to be clear with people about what I think matters, and I think your work MATTERS!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Thank you so, so much, Ellice. We really appreciate you and it means the world to us that you’re a part of our community. We’re really glad you’re speaking up and putting yourself out there––it makes a difference. <3

  64. This podcast really hit home for me. Everything seemed so appropriate for what I’m going through right now – it was as if you were speaking to me directly. Thank you! I was so excited that I just downloaded the Audio version of the book. I am really looking forward to listening to it! But I will put some of these communication tools, in particular allowing myself to be vulnerable, to deal with a particularly difficult situation I am going through right now as I really think they will come in handy.
    Thanks for the interview Marie and thank you for your both yours and Brene’s words of wisdom.

  65. Lydia Maria Eichiner

    Two great brave woman!
    I’d loved to know you in person and be your friend. Thank you for what you do and how you express yourself so clear and honest.
    I’ll try to be as courageous, just like you, too.
    Most insightful for me was that “being scared gives us the opportunity do be courageous”. It’s so obvious that we can not see it!!!
    Thank you girls
    Ciao
    Lydia

  66. Liz Garvie

    First time listener – absolutely loved this discussion. So many insightful topics and off to buy Dare to Lead.
    Valued the discussion on Vulnerability and gaining an understanding of “embracing the suck”.

    Thanks for this forum.

  67. EMPOWERED BEYOND MY FEAR! Thank you for giving me the insight to be my own courage and strength to understanding fear for what it really is. I now have the tools to be a better support to my family, friends and co-workers.

  68. Laura Horne

    Great episode. Thank you, thank you & thankyou!

  69. Ohhh, thank you! My hubby has warned me not to post my opinion and feelings on my personal FB page, because I have a business.
    But, I am my business and don’t want to pretend I have no opinions.
    I lost followers/likes when I defended gay rights.
    Lost subscribers when I commented on Melania Trump using capes to avoid holding her husband’s hands, and now I likely will lose more because I clearly don’t pity men these days and the outrage of some that they need to behave themselves versus us having to shut our mouths and feelings.
    You have freed me.
    Thank you.

  70. Brene Brown is a constant inspiration! I really appreciated what Brene and Marie said about remaining yourself on social media.

    I self-present in a way that’s amicable, and have struggled with those moments when I voice opinions that might not be popular, but that speak to my soul. It’s so challenging to say “I stand for this,” when you know that it could disrupt the amicable status quo and create conflict. I suppose this is where the courage and vulnerability comes in.

    Thank you; thank you; thank you!

  71. So much information, I think I will listen to it several times, to immerse myself in all the nuggets.
    Concerning empathy, it is important to distinguish it from sympathy but also with the emotional contagion one.Empathy allows us to give an adequate response, to welcome the other, the contagious emotional is to sink into the state of the other without discernment, it is to confuse the emotion of the other with ours.
    There is a conference on it that you can find on internet but it’s in french.

  72. I am going to use “the story I am making up…” conversation tool for rumbling in my marriage! This way I am still being honest about how I feel–without placing blame–and giving my partner the benefit of the doubt to correct whatever “story I am making up.” Thank you for this!

  73. Kathy Koenig

    I’ve already listened to this twice today. It’s so rich and valuable. Two of the most (for me) credible voices in the milieu at this juncture in time. Note, not “female” voices, but voices! I continue to work on shedding my perfectionistic armor and it’s allowing me to explore the cave where the treasure lies. Both of you help me to be braver every day. You provide communities where there is more honesty than I’ve found in my lifetime. I’m working through B-School and also cried in the crowd at Brene’s last visit to Minneapolis. Thank you for your vulnerability, honesty, and modeling. The past weeks have been challenging and we’re the people who are going to carry things forward-together. I’m sure I will listen to this many more times. Such gratitude…

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      Thank you for sharing your precious time with us, Kathy. Not once, but TWICE! You’re a gem. xo

  74. I loved this! Brene’s words resonated with me and I thought of an example of armor immediately: not feeling safe in a car driven by someone who’s armored up/defensive. It seems that drivers respond viscerally and angrily their passenger(s) who’s concerned about safety and comfort. I haven’t read the book yet (but will be purchasing multiple copies) and I’m wondering about answers to this common problem. Personal values seems like an ideal place to start as Brene said. The car example is just a symptom of the bigger problem but according to a UK study I read this morning 56% of car accidents are caused by angry drivers. I can’t wait to read the book!

  75. I feel like I finally understood empathy more full and why I am able to connect with people even though I didn’t have the same experience. It’s connecting with the emotion behind the experience and holding space for it (yep, I took notes!) “Empathy isn’t about fixing, it’s the brave choice to be with someone in their darkness.” Im ready for the world-wide read along! Thank you so much Marie, Berne and team!

  76. Wendy

    Thank you ❤️

  77. Michelle

    So much love for Brené! ‘Embrace the suck’ is beyond relevant and the missing kick in the butt I found myself needing today. Thank you!

  78. Kim

    This was everything. I’m stepping into running my own business for the third time, so many lightbulbs and truths. Made me laugh and cry. The armour was the biggest take away for me, perfectionism 🤦‍♀️. Incredible learnings on leadership and living truthfully. Thank you!

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      Kim, all of us on Team Forleo are cheering you on. Each of those times before were learning lessons to make this third time MAGIC!

  79. Absolutely beautiful! Thank you Brene, for knowing yourself so well and not allowing people’s criticism and reducing you to less than who you are as a whole person, censor your values. I am completely inspired!
    My favorite take away “What does support look like to you?” and Knowing the value we bring and the value we stand for.
    Can’t wait to get my copy of the book!
    Thanks for this one Marie. <3

  80. Amie

    I think sometimes people struggle with empathy if they have had a similar experience because they reflexively don’t want to feel the intense emotion related to it – especially if they’ve not really dealt with it yet. So I think it really depends on a person’s capacity and willingness to “go there” with another person more than the experiences the person has had. I also think some people are very empathic but only if they don’t feel like they are to blame for whatever the other person is feeling, but if they feel at all responsible or to blame they shut down and/or get defensive.

  81. Maya

    I just want to thank both of you from the bottom of my heart. I am overwhelmed by positive emotions!

  82. Priscilla

    I love these two women, and together – MAGIC. What a revolutionary conversation!

    “What does support look like right now?” I love this because it acknowledges the fluctuation of our human needs – and also that individuals might see support differently. I’ve had several conversations with friends where we have discussed what support really means, and I think it comes in so many different packages…

    It’s always a struggle to really be there for someone when the going gets hard and too often we (I) think that we have the answers and we want to ‘fix’ things. We think that someone else needs what we think we might need in their situation (as we are sympathizing, perhaps, rather than empathizing?). And on the other side, we are sometimes afraid to ask for what we need. This question takes the guessing out of it.

    There were so many other amazing things that were discussed that also touched me deeply, including the bravery and backlash of being wholly yourself. I also believe Dr. Ford and I think it’s amazing that so many people have supported her publicly.

    Thank you so much, Marie and Brené, for the wisdom, grace, and humor that you light the whole world with! Much love.

  83. Thank you Brene & Marie for this wonderful candid discussion. I rarely take lines of others verbatim, but because I have a friend with a life threatening situation and have lately been avoiding as I know she has a Lot of people who love her and it’s so long distance (she’s back amidst her family & friends) and uncomfortable for my own self to know what to do or say… your comment just broke though all my doubts and ?s about the situation and I thank you very much! “Hey, what does support look like from me right now?” I will be asking her exactly this!

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      Thanks for extending the ripple, Elise. May your friend know that she is supported and loved by you. You’re a great friend.

  84. Lee Towle

    Listening from Aus and feeling emotional. So many truly wise insights shared, takeaways to practice, and the beautiful relationship between Marie and Brene was a joy to ‘hear’. I left my last role (a cofounder of a company) because I knew I was armouring up to deal with colleagues who were (in their armoured state) trying to make me feel irrelevant. I battled with anger and resentment (story creating) and it took awhile but I finally realised 2 things that helped me find the courage to leave. First realisation: I just could not be arsed dealing with teaching grown people how to behave better (sorry guys, having empathy does not stop people behaving badly and my health was at risk). I could see myself armouring up to deal with persistant crap, and I did not want to be like this. Second realisation: I was the only one who could change things for me. The company was not going to ask ‘what value did I bring’ but I knew what value I brought and accepted I no longer wanted to give it to the company
    but to excel at it for myself and my family. For sure I played the resentment story about the company (they did not deserve me etc), BUT once I played the courage and curioristy story I really felt the compunction to ACT. If I could find a great cave for others then I was convinced I could find a truly wonderful cave for myself. I have never looked back, I feel gratitude for my experience and wish I could help others experience my good fortune. Thanks guys for putting language around these complex behaviours.

  85. Thank you for this <3
    I loved Brene reading the final chapter – so good and i absolutely loved learning that "courage is teachable, measurable and observable" – i said YES with such excitement when i heard this and now i cant wait to read this book, thank you Marie <3

  86. Maia

    I love everything specially when Brene said my job is to be myself. It resonates to me that what I need to care about is be myself. Thank you Brene and Marie.

  87. Marie and Brene,
    So many takeaways–thank you–but asking what support looks like in a difficult situation is golden. It occurs to me that asking myself that question could be enlightening, too. In my role as caregiver to mom who lives with dementia, I can easily get impatient and angry with myself when I don’t speak with kindness. Not really helpful… But asking myself this question will have a more positive effect I think.

    Highlighting the difference between vulnerability and self disclosure was useful, too. It makes perfect sense.

    I’m looking forward to reading the book!
    Marilyn

  88. Marie & Brene, Thanks for another insightful deep & meaningful convo! So many take aways. What stood out for me, especially with things I’ve been going through in my business as a sole practitioner, is not letting my perfectionism corrode what I have & am creating with my work & my kinesiology space. Just yesterday I wrote a list of all I have risen from in keeping my practice alive. This statement about perfectionism has given me the question to ask myself, when I am behaving from that space of fear, not from that space of pure love & authentic connection with my work as a practitioner and as a teacher. Much appreciated xxx

  89. What resonated most with me is the part where Brene and Marie talk about being ok with making mistakes and curbing the incessant/compulsive need for perfectionism. It is downright exhausting to be a perfectionist and it makes it hard to forgive oneself and others for their mistakes – leading to multiple personal and professional problems. It is hard to overcome this need, but I will try and keep trying! 🙂

  90. ….so inspiring, hard to put the meaning into words! I WILL buy her book! So interesting, when Brené differiented between not struggling with non-followers, but non-understanders. She’s a killer, such a comfort to know about her work and inspiration to get going myself 😀

  91. This is one of my favourite podcasts ever ‼️
    My favourite part was that we have to stay open and be curious and don’t start to defend ourselves…

    I love your work, both of you. You change my life‼️

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      It’s always nice to see you here, Barbara. We hope that YOU stay open and curious.

  92. Andrea

    Marie and Brene’,
    Thank you, so much, for courageously being YOURSELVES! You inspire me to have the courage to just be ME! To show up to my job as ME, to lead my staff as ME, and to work on my side hustle as ME! I appreciate you – both of you.

  93. deb

    Damn Ladies!!!
    That interviewed rocked! Thanks for the inspiration and wisdom!
    gotta buy the book now!

  94. Social pain is felt the same as physical pain. I think this bears repeating one million times or more. That sentence moves me because I come from a place of trauma and hyperarousal and when you’ve suffered the symptoms of these things you come to expect the social world to be dangerous and hurt- the best way I’ve heard it said is that the body keeps the score (VanDerkolk)

  95. Glenice Parkr

    I have found my calling right here at my home on the GG Ranch. I was afraid for 2 years to promote the business and I was so afraid of failure. I’m about to turn 60 and I am learning every day. I learn a lot from you Brene and you make us all braver and better

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      GLENICE! 60 and fabulous- that’s what you are. Keep sharing your business and heart because the world needs it. We’re here cheering you on. xo

  96. Kristie

    This interview was fully of so much goodness in the form of wisdom to be sure, but also in the presence of energy of true self that both Brene and Marie bring to the table. I love how Brene talked about curiosity being the ticket to staying engaged in conversation and relationship, especially when things get hard. Curiosity is a quality of our deepest, wisest Self. It’s a sign that we’re leading from our truest nature, and responding instead of reacting to our old stories. They both spoke of how many people unfollowed them – how many people didn’t see these women for who they are. This speaks to me of the (often unacknowledged) divide that’s within people that becomes an expectation misplaced upon others. Clearly, both Brene and Marie have justice as foundational aspects of their work. To me, this is hard to miss – it just oozes out of who they are! Thank you for being shiny exemplars of women who lead while still in a patriarchal society!!!

  97. This was so good! I’ve been a fan of Brene’s for YEARS. I pre-ordered Dare to Lead on Audible and I’ve already started listening. “What does support look like for you?” is such a profound question. I will definitely be doing that. But also asking the people in my tribe the value I bring. Comparison has no place in my space. And Marie, you’re one of my favorites! Thank you for being unapologetically you and sharing with us some of these amazing people you know. Keep it up!

  98. Loved this conversation!!! I had chills and tears throughout. I am always dreaming of taking a vulnerability class with Brene but as I live in Ontario, Canada it’s a little difficult to find. lol! I am an acting/improvisation teacher and loveeee the amount of ties improv has to vulnerability, staying curious and courageous!!! LOVE that you used role play & story telling tools ..lol! I wish you had a Cdn. office!!! I am feeling stuck career wise as I use my teachings in numerous capacities with various audiences of all ages/learning levels looking to strengthen their own voices,face their fears and have a laugh while being reminded they are ENOUGH and it’s okay to embrace the suck!lol! Thank you SO MUCH for this generous & honest conversation! xo

  99. Jeremy

    As with everything Brene does, my response is “Wow.” Just an amazing interview. The thing that resonates with me right now is asking my supervisor to help me find my value. I know that there is a lot more to unpack in this interview so I’ve got a few more listenings to do. The main thing I always hear, and as a therapist have shared with clients, is from Rising Strong and the Joseph Campbell quote. Brene adding the Star Wars reference to The Reckoning, and to the cave, “In you must go.” How can one listen to Brene and not heed that statement?

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      You may find that conversation and partnership with your boss may be a game changer for you and them. We hope that with each listening of this conversation you will gain more insights and knowledge for you and your future.

  100. I’ve been trying to live by the whole “growth and comfort do not coexist” saying…recently pitched a pilot program I’m working on during a Creative Mornings Ottawa event, while breastfeeding my son at the same time! Nerve-wracking but I didn’t want to miss the opportunity…and it got a great response from audience members.

  101. Eileen Cobb

    Loved this talk….and thanks for not having your s*&^ together! I need to remember that I can still make a difference even when I’m a hot mess.

  102. Shoba

    Dear Brene and Marie,
    you guys were amazing!! stay strong and be yourself!! please never change…… I am committed to dare to lead. It just is the right thing to do.

  103. Maria Povlock

    I enjoyed your discussion. Empathy vs. Sympathy stood out for me as well as the vulnerability. Looking forward to reading the book.

  104. Denise

    Amazing! A must listen for anyone.
    Thank you, Marie, for your courage and for interviewing Bene.

  105. Yes! Everything is figure-outable! Or as I say: There is always a door number three. In life and in writing, there is always a solution. It’s not about thinking outside the box, it’s about creating the box that works for you. When I remind myself of this I’m reminding myself that I can do anything. I can solve anything. It’s about finding what works for me in any situation. If I’ve painted myself into a corner…I figure out how to paint myself back out. Don’t give up. Never give up. You’ll always find not just “a” way, but “the” way. There is always a door number three.

  106. You knaw what’s funny … I did a leadership training recently and we had to pick a rolmodel for ourselves and I picked both of you. Brené and Marie. Could not choose 🙂
    Love your work and your conversation.
    #inspiredtolead

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      What a beautiful and kind thing to share, Monique. It is hard so you might as well keep them both. Thanks for being here and sharing your kind words. xo

  107. Maria Z

    Hi Marie and Brené for this inspiring podcast. I try to lead as much as I can to the best of my abilities as a mum and as as a Diversity and Inclusion manager in the U.K. This podcast really resonates with me in so many ways but the one thing that struck me is how we need to be brave in communicating what we need. I’m deaf and I advocate for al protected categories but most especially for disabled people, it’s the reason why I was put on this Earth. And it takes a lot of courage for people with a disability to ask for help sometimes because often in asking for help we worry about coming across as incompetent or unable or weak. But once again your podcast speaks to me about the courage to be yourself at work and to ask for help when you need it. When I was younger I was scared of telling people about my deafness because I worried it would be exploited or used against me. It has happened to me. Then I learned that it’s ok to ask for help because if you get help with one thing you can work better and also help your team better. I now try to encourage people to “come out” as disabled or to ask for help and support because it’s not just a responsibility but it helps us be our better selves! I couldn’t have benefited from the audio podcast as initially it didn’t have subtitles but I reached out and asked Marie’s team for the subtitles and a few hours later they were available! I couldn’t have accessed this brilliant podcast without them so thank you Team Forleo for including me. I got a lot out of it and I’ll use it in my work ❤️

    • Hi Maria, I’m happy for you that you get to make such a big difference in the world for disabled people and with your own children. I commend you for asking help. It’s a brave thing to do.

      I also find it very hard to ask for help and used to see it as a weakness but thanks to people like Brené that have demystified and redefined vulnerability I am learning to ask for help more often too without feeling shame around it.

      Wishing you all the very best with your mission and parenting.

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      Maria, your heart and work are so important and special. Thank YOU for showing up for the people who count on your leadership and work in the world. Just your encouragement and example to others is changing the world one person at a time. We’re honored to do this work and we’re so glad that the transcript allows you to soak in the MarieTV goodness. xo

  108. Needed this today. Thanks!

  109. Akary

    Whoa!!
    WTF?!!!
    YESSSS!! Badass women make my brain go 💥🤛🏼 and my heart implode!! The last reading just made my heart skip a beat. Thank you Brebé for daring to be brave and for giving a new generation permission to be badasses!! And Marie…thank you for creating a platform that pushes the corporate boundary. That allows thinking to happen where it may not have been invited before. You are #ridiculouslypowerful and it makes my heart sing to know there’s another courageous soul willing to have those difficult conversations and inviting the rest of us to join!!

  110. Great podcast by two courageous women. Excited to get the book and apply it in my own life, in PARENTING, as I think parents ARE leaders and role models.

    There is a lot of divisiveness in the bigger world and in my smaller world. I think it is necessary at times to stand up for what we believe in, draw a line in the sand, pick a side of the fence that is congruent with our values. I’m a learner and proud of it and know that I never want to stop learning. Not all people want that and I am beginning to learn to respect that. I’ve seen from personal experience, thinking I’m right and they are wrong is still very much part of the black and white thinking that have plagued my conservative upbringing and adult life.

    If it was up to me every parent on this planet would start the journey into mindful/ conscious parenting and I often find myself judging parents who just don’t see the value in it and keep repeating similar generational behaviour patterns, just with a few new tweaks, a slightly improved version with a positive twist for this generation. If you are really lucky you might be surrounded with a family and close friends that reflect and respect your personal values. But many people don’t have that. Nobody gets to choose their families.

    So I remind myself that the people on the other side of the fence also did not get to choose their families and early childhood experiences that shaped their belief system early on. We know from science that those beliefs systems are cemented into your subconscious before the age of seven years, and to change those belief systems is a diligent, strenuous, lifelong process. So instead of judgment, I need to choose empathy and compassion towards people that I thoroughly disagree with and that is bloody hard.

    I firmly believe that I can only change myself, not my child, not my partner, not my family, NO ONE. Instead, I can live my values by learning, applying, changing ONLY MYSELF and repeating this process for the rest of my life.

    “Hurt people hurt” – that’s a quote I heard somewhere which really stopped me in my tracks. I can not stop the people on the other side of the fence/ canyon/ great divide hurting and I can not stop other people from hurting each other if I don’t heal my own hurts. When I do that, and only then can I have an open, non-emotional conversation with someone that has a completely different viewpoint than me.

    As a parent, I get to choose to face and heal my own “hurts” so that I pass less of my hurts on to my daughter. I’m far from perfect but I am proud of the work I have done on myself, changing beliefs and generational behaviour patterns. BUT I cannot judge other people for not doing the same, and that is really tough, being empathetic and compassionate towards people that have a completely different viewpoint.

    Thank you again for the great interview.

  111. tesa guevara

    Thanks agian, Marie and Brene’! i just jumped right into your website for a leadership assessment. This is so timely for a new job i really hope to seal…soon. You too never fail to push, lift and inspire me. Daghang Salamat! (thats my visayan, local dialect from Cebu, Philippines which simply means, Thank you very much!)

  112. Here is what spoke to me the most:
    “Don’t suck what you need out of my work, and leave some vague memory of me behind, and then be pissed off when I am myself.”

    This was an epiphany for me, having to receive feedback is part of my job, but I am frequently hit or swatted at with comments. I have checked my values, I am showing up in my integrity and communicating. (my top two values). However, when clients don’t hear what they want to hear, even though it has been communicated (read connection) and heartful and from a vulnerable spot, they take pot shots. This is so hard for me to go through. Now, I can call it as it is….and not take this to heart as much. Thanks so very much.

  113. Carol Jordan

    I tried to find a way to private message Brene but came up empty handed so I will post here.
    I would like to remind Brene’ (in responce to her pain reguarding the “hurtful tweet comments/un-subs” from Part One of her book:
    “Don’t grab hurtful comments and pull them close to you by rereading them and ruminating on them. Don’t play with them by rehearsing your badass comeback. And whatever you do, don’t pull hatefulness close to your heart. Let what’s unproductive and hurtful drop at the feet of your unarmored self. And no matter how much your self-doubt wants to scoop up the criticism and snuggle with the negativity so it can confirm its worst fears, or how eager the shame gremlins are to use the hurt to fortify your armor, take a deep breath and find the strength to leave what’s mean-spirited on the ground. You don’t even need to stomp it or kick it away. Cruelty is cheap, easy, and chickenshit. It doesn’t deserve your energy or engagement. Just step over the comments and keep daring, always remembering that armor is too heavy a price to pay to engage with cheap-seat feedback.”

    Love always, Carol

  114. Kathryn

    This was phenomenal and just what I needed today! You may have been unfollowed by others for what you posted but you just gained a new follower for what you posted! Thank you for your boldness and for not stepping down!

  115. This podcast was phenomenal and so well timed for me. Today I decided to leave my permanent job to pursue becoming a contractor to provide more time to be better mother and spouse. I cried in the final reading from Brené’s new book. Thank you for the honesty, integrity, and true authencity. 🙏🏼

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      Congratulations on making such a BIG decision and taking the leap, Jacqueline! We’re cheering you on as you start the next chapter in your journey. You’ve got this.

  116. Thank you so much Brene and Marie for talking about the myth of perfection. I have struggled with perfectionism my whole life and have seen how negatively it has impacted my life in stopping me dead in my tracks. Now I co-host a podcast called Middle Finger To Perfection where failing at being perfect is our greatest success and we give the middle finger to perfection every day! 🙂 It always feels so good to see others out there exposing perfectionism! Middle fingers up! 🙂

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      It sounds like your podcast helps a lot of people because perfectionism is a dream squisher, Ashley. Keep sharing your voice and showing up for the people that need to hear it. You’re changing the world. xo

  117. Deb

    Thank you to both of you wonderful, amazing, brave women for sharing this podcast with us. Absolutely loved the conversation, so many tidbits of wisdom that you both shared. I am reading the book right now and can’t wait to check out the new hub. My heart is filled with gratitude for the gift of your leadership!

  118. Mariska

    Thank you so much for this episode. There are a few things that strongly resonated with me and it is hard to choose one thing. However, this is exactly what I needed to hear today. I am in a position in which I have difficult conversations with people (and I chose this position, which is temporary, to get out of my comfort zone) and this episode helped me with that. Also, the question, “what does support look like for you right now?” is a great takeaway for me. Last, it was so awesome hear Marie share that she had a job for 7 years while launching her business. I am launching my own business right now and I have a job while I’m doing it. Sometimes I feel like I’m not doing enough right now and hearing what Marie shared made me feel great about right now. Thank you, Marie and Brene!!

    • Hailey - Team Forleo

      Thanks so much for sharing, Mariska! We’re thrilled this inspiring conversation connected with you at the perfect moment and sparked so many takeaways for you. It’s wonderful that you’re embracing the challenges of your current role with courage and grace. Although your job may be temporary, the skills you’re learning now will continue to serve you in your own business and beyond. Your message also reminded me of a few episodes from our archives that may provide some additional encouragement for you at this time: https://www.marieforleo.com/2016/11/day-job-and-follow-dreams/ & https://www.marieforleo.com/2011/06/transition-day-job-dream-business/. Thanks so much for being a part of our community and connecting with us this week!

  119. You’r clapping alone in your studio and I’m crying. Out of relief that this is being said. Brene, a great blessing in my life is that you are on the rise in your soul and your career while I’m paying attention. Marie you are incredible too!

  120. Loved the honesty and openness of this conversation Marie & Brené!

  121. Thank you for this episode. I was able to use it to make a tremendous difference this week.

    When you talk about the difference between sympathy and empathy and the key phrase to use: “Let me know what support looks like for you today”.

    I was able to use it with my friend who was waiting to have a third miscarriage pending the results of her doctor’s analysis. In return, she opened up and told me what she needed – just to chat, just to cry, just to have friends there that care.

    I also used it with my other friend who was in hospital for a couple of days without sleep after her toddler broke out in an acute and debilitating rash. In return, our friendship deepened and today she shared some scars from her life and opened up about her beliefs that had me help make a difference to her self confidence and value.

    I will continue to use this term from now on, knowing that it made a difference to these two beautiful ladies, and understanding that this phrase has made me a better communicator, and my friends more able to trust and communicate with me.

    • Hailey - Team Forleo

      Danielle– thank you so much for coming back to let us know how this powerful takeaway has continued to impact you this week. Our hearts also ache for the pain both of your friends are experiencing and it’s wonderful that you’ve been able to be so present for them in their deepest moments of need. Your actions and words are the embodiment of empathy and we hope this message continues to be a lifeline of support for you, anytime you need it. We’re so grateful to have you in our bighearted community!

  122. AnaV

    Love the humanity.
    “love”, “humanity” top values for me.

  123. Crap!!! Every time I hear something from you Marie, I think “that might be the best and most helpful interview I have ever heard” and then you hit me with another. It’s perfect! even as it’s getting better. This podcast was worth putting on repeat. Informative, funny, emotional, real, raw and ……
    Thank you and thank you to Brene Brown for saying and doing the things that really matter. I look forward to diving into her book Dare to be Brave.
    Well Done!!!

    • Hailey - Team Forleo

      We’re thrilled to hear you enjoyed this interview, William! Your kind words mean the world to us. We hope Brené’s new book continues to inspire you. We’re grateful to have you in our community and we’re looking forward to wowing your socks off with more MarieTV goodness, soon!

  124. Thank you so much for providing this amazing podcast!
    My favourite saying today was “Don’t suck what you need out of my work and leave some vague memory of who I am behind and then be pissed when I am myself.” Amen.
    This statement is grounded in a firm belief of one’s value. I strive to be so accepting of who I am that what other people think don’t matter. Thank you for the reminder! I picked up the book yesterday and I cannot wait to apply what I read.

  125. Jonathan Bosch

    I loved this episode and it was so perfectly timed. I’ve been in one of the strangest depressions in a while and was having a heard time remembering who I really am. Brené said one thing that put things together perfectly: “Embrace the suck”. I’ve been reading about studies on ayahuasca to treat PTSD as well as regularly reading/hearing about Tim Ferriss’ support of studies at Johns Hopkins in using mushrooms to treat PTSD, depression and other conditions that are difficult to treat. I listened to Michael Pollan’s book on psychedelics for treatment and he said that the guides during these sessions help patients to look at and see past the fears, reaching a feeling of ego-death and peace. “Embracing the suck” is another way of looking at it and I have been lifted up by that revelation.

    I listen to podcasts every day and during this latest round of depression I’ve been listening to comedy and “word-craft”, kinda avoiding the ones on Enlightenment as they didn’t feel right. I saw this episode on iTunes, downloaded it and listened to it to and from work. I had the epiphany as I was going to my evening part-time job and had one of the best and productive nights ever. I recruit people for market research studies, my job is basically to offer people the opportunity to be paid for giving their opinions. I was working from a client list, which is basically cold calling. I enrolled 3 people in 3 hours, a record for me.

    Thank you so much Marie for all you do. I’ve met Kate Snowise and Arien Smith who’ve done your B-School, maybe I’ll be a grad as well. All in good time.

    • Hailey - Team Forleo

      Jonathan– thank you so much for stopping by and sharing a bit about how this episode landed for you this week. We’re so sorry you’re struggling with depression– that can be an extremely isolating experience and we’re grateful that Marie, Brené, Tim, and more have been sources of insight and encouragement for you. It’s clear you’re deeply committed to your recovery and we’re sending our best wishes that you’ll find treatment that works well for you. As we aren’t medical professionals ourselves, we’d love to encourage you to seek the additional guidance of a doctor or therapist you trust who may be able to help you explore different options. In the meantime, you may also enjoy Tim’s powerful MarieTV interview where he talks about his own journey with fear, depression, and finding self love: https://www.marieforleo.com/2017/11/tim-ferriss-interview-tribe-of-mentors/ Thanks for being part of our community, Jonathan– we see you and we’d absolutely love to welcome you to B-School when the time is right.

      • Jonathan Bosch

        Hailey, thanks so much for your warmth and wisdom. I know the Marie podcast with Tim Ferriss very well, we both share the same kind of software glitch that we can learn from. I’ve been a conscious student of enlightenment since 1980 and have my own small tribe of mentors. And I have a great relationship with my therapist, psychiatrist and acupuncturist. Living in flow is a semi-constant recalibration and mindful relaxation process. I’ve got really good guidance to keep me grounded and balanced. And I’m posting about my epiphanies from this episode on my FB Practical Spirituality page. I think this is the 2nd or 3rd Marie podcast I’ve shared, this one’s particularly good.

        Thanks again, wishes of good fortune, good energy and being open to blessings galore.
        Jonathan

        • Jonathan Bosch

          I forgot to add that my psychiatrist and therapist are the ones who mentioned that they learned of someone who does ayahuasca rituals and got excellent results. I also have acquaintances who are or know shamans, I’m going to consult with them as well. When you’re going deep, you want support from people who are dedicated to what they do and it’s integrity. So everyone’s on the same page with the same intention, I like it.

  126. Hi Marie and Brene – woooo! This was SUCH a good one. I run a small hospitality team of three in the front desk/office area for a local gymnastics facility in Portland, Oregon. Typically I choose a book every quarter or so for us to read and discuss in order that we might improve our communications with each other, our co-workers, clients, bosses and anyone else we come into contact with over the course of our days and improve us as humans in general. This is the next book on my list because I think these skills are SO important for everyone to learn! When I took guitar lessons 5 years ago, I learned about “embrace the suck”. Maybe my teacher learned it from Brene. Whatever, the case, I have used that concept over and over. But, what stuck with me most is what are my two-values and using those to figure out how I receive feedback the best. I have never even thought about that. I have checked out the “Dare To Lead” hub and I am excited about the reading plan and the workbook to do along with the book. My team’s first assignment will be to listen to this podcast. I cannot even tell you how important this is and I’m going to do my best to get my boss on board as well ;). I cannot thank both of you enough for your own vulnerability. Much love!!!

  127. Thank you so much for sharing this interview! I learned so many things I can apply to my business and personal life. I’ve been listening to Brené on SuperSoul and I love her! So I was excited to listen to her take on a leadership level. It was awesome! From this I actually take some wisdom you actually shared, Marie. And that is knowing my strength and value I bring. Keeping it active and alive to keep me from playing the comparison game. Love this!

    • Hailey - Team Forleo

      Thanks for tuning in, Nathalie! We’re thrilled this inspiring conversation sparked so many takeaways for you to implement in your own life and relationships. We hope Marie’s powerful reminder remains close to your heart, anytime you need it!

  128. First of all I must say a heartfelt thank you to both you Marie and Brené Brown. What an awesome dynamic duo!
    For me, what is actionable right now is taking the time to really dig deep… to LISTEN to my self. All parts of my self. Giving my self the gift of time to do this – with the same amount of compassion as I would give my dearest friend – THAT is what I can do right now.
    Once again, thank you Marie, I’ve been reading Brené for a few years now – but I only just discovered YOU. You have given voice and light to entrepreneurship in a way that has allowed me to get off my arse and FIGURE it OUT!!
    With love,
    Amber.

  129. lea

    Absolutely amazing and life changing, thanks so mach both of you

  130. Kitty

    Dear Brene and Marie,
    This was such an amazing interview to me that I’m going to watch it again this weekend (and definitely some more in the future), take notes and answer your question/leave a comment right then. It’s such a valuable and relevant interview, I feel like I want to learn it by heart!
    Lots of love and all the best to your great work!
    Kitty

  131. I love Brene, she touches my soul with everything she writes and gives me courage when she speaks. I found her through you Marie and have read all of her books.

  132. Love you both! Biggest takeaways are: recognizing when my armor goes up and “the story I’m making up is…”
    This chick is going to be brave and say what the story is out loud and I’m excited to break free of the armor.
    AND…thank you both for continuing the be authentic on social media. Your voices are needed. To hell with the unfollowers.
    This wise, grateful human will keep following!

  133. Marie & Brene’,
    Thank you, for speaking your truths. By doing so you open the door to many others, myself included to venture into this space and face our own fears and armors. I would like to also give a quote that rings true for myself, “The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing you will make one.” – Elbert Hubbard

  134. Thank you both for this. I’m the one who always says courage doesn’t mean the absence of fear – and then when I had an old trauma triggered last week, I felt so small and hurt and ashamed, I thought I couldn’t possibly be a coach and carry my message into the world, like I wasn’t worthy. SUCH a timely reminder! Thank you thank you thank you. I needed to hear this.

  135. Tears…….tears of gratitude for giving language to what’s been so elusive. Sometimes I can name it but whenI’m with someone who is emotionally non-expressive and I’m upset, it’s a double whammy when they sympathize. When they say I’m sorry, it feels like an misplaced apology. I love…. “What does support look like right now?” – It’s amazing what just listening can do. But sometimes it’s not enough and Brene’s suggestions and role playing were perfect. Will relisten for many gems that I need to hear again. Tonight I was raging, feeling undervalued and armored. now I feel validated and better equipped to get back in there and figure this out. Thank you.

  136. Nicola McDonald

    I posted an article on LinkedIn today. Stepped on perfectionism, then over fear and the laid myself vulnerable for an my audience because what I had to say mattered it came from a place deep within and has been trying to be heard for some time. Within 1 hour of me posting my article, a friend sent me the link to you and this pod and OMG it is as if Brené spoke my words, my internal dialogue. Doubt was saying me down. Mrs irrelevant, who will take note of you? My stomach stirred as you spoke and the voice was cheering, swirling inside as that feeling of being irrelevant subsided for just a moment and I told myself, I really could be the difference. Thank you both so very much .for such a wonderful discussion. I didn’t know I needed to hear this but, in its own way this discussion has validated me.

  137. Stacey

    “Embrace the suck”… yes, sometimes we have to and it’s hard!

  138. Karla

    Great podcast episode! Going to remember to bring curiosity to the table when I’m feeling fear. Thanks, Marie & Brene. Love all of it! And thanks for your bravery, vulnerability and letting us know what it’s like from your side. One post outside your normal topic and you’re unfollowed – ouch!

    In other news – the Copy Cure webinar was FANTASTIC last Wed! Been using the 5 tips on everything since Wednesday and it’s made a huge difference in my copy. I’m not able to sign up now but passed it on my friend Carolyn and she’s signed up. love ya!

  139. Amalai

    This was priceless! so so good! Thank you both! And more than a national treasure, Brené is a world wide treasure, and so are you Marie! lots of Love,

  140. Nadja

    THANK YOU! For this courageous and encouraging episode. This part resonated the most inside me: Instead of being empathetic towards people, I always tried to solve their problems. Which was my armour. And it was killing me. I just failed very badly, losing a friend to cancer and now I felt so helpless towards his widow who is in so much pain. This conversation helps me to change my behaviour towards her and everyone who comes to me for help right now: I will try empathy instead of my long trained problem solving terrorism.

  141. Absolutely brilliant – listened with tears in my eyes. I LOVE that it’s okay to be both brave and afraid at the same time ‘cos I am a whole lot of the time – about to publish an honest and hopefully inspirational memoir about my life as a female minster in the church and my breakdown and subsequent loss of faith that’s taken a whole lot of courage to write. I’ve been holding onto the manuscript thinking “do I dare?” – “do I dare put it out there?” Answer is YES – other mid-life women like me need to hear true stories of how everything can collapse around us and yet we come back stronger, kinder and BRAVER women, ready to be game-changers extraordinaire. Marie and Brene THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING YOU – it helps me dare to be me. Love you both – I really do.

  142. Alli Hyer

    Thank you for this!! So many good insights and takeaways. My question is – for someone who is a huge fan of your work but disagrees with you politically, what would it look like for that person to interact with you well? I’m guessing the national stage (ig, fb, etc) isn’t a place where an interaction would really take place, but hypothetically – if the person feels like they want to say something, what would be a compassionate, empathetic way to disagree with someone that would feel positive instead of draining?

  143. Awesome interview. Loved the realness and authenticity in this interview. I’m picturing Brene with Adidas and Converse and Marie running through the streets of New York for a new USB port. Real people. Real great insights!
    I am an artist who captures people’s most treasured moments with their children. I can see authenticity a mile away because it shines out like a beacon. Thanks for the great role-play of a difficult conversation (way to show you’re a pro, Marie!) and for the challenge to lean into those difficult conversations with curiosity.
    Loved this episode!

  144. Great Article.
    Thanks a lot
    Michael

  145. Marianne Jolley

    Marie, you and Brene together, what a dynamic duo! I love listening to this interview, it’s hands on and allows me to listen during the workday when I need to remember these principles so I can apply them in real time! I love that you’re you, even if seems unpopular, it gives me courage to let me be me too!! Such an awesome episode!

  146. So much brilliance!!! I’ve shared this with everyone I know. My favorite part was about getting curious, instead of getting defensive, in the face of criticism…and how much that creates vulnerability. I also love the question, “What does support look like right now?” I’m going to use that one, for sure!!!

  147. Lin

    Whoa!!!! What a fabulous interview. The words cannot describe how touched I was.
    I had to pause to reflect so many times to let it all get absorbed. The bit about asking your trusted colleagues to help explore and name the value we bring – OMG you just articulated something that I was not able to do for myself in the past and in turn asked the wrong questions. WOW. Just WOW.
    And then when you spoke about empathy – I totally get it now. I feel it now much better. I am an empath and I actually feel some pain of people and injuries to others brings painful electrical impulses in me. It’s a bit too powerful at the moment. I was not able to ever articulate (yes once again that word) how I felt empathy towards others without sounding off. But to relate to the feeling and not the event is a game changer for me. I felt a roll of thunder and waves within – rolling about as if a sleeping force was just awakened. I am just extremely grateful for you helping me overcome a challenge right now. I am speechless but typing away.
    I have to pause the interview mid way – I need to let it all trickle down into my nervous system. Just thank you Brene and thank you Marie and Team for bringing content that promotes growth and understanding.

  148. Iris Min

    Beautiful article! Interesting to read. Thanks for sharing.

  149. Justyna Dlugokecka

    Brene’s book, Rising Strong, has changed my life…….really. SFD has transformed how I deal with difficult situations in my life. Absolutely brilliant! Sometimes I laugh at myself when I re-read my SFD and sometimes I cry and want to give myself a hug. I have listened to this Podcast twice now and every time I listen I pick up a new nugget of wisdom.
    Thank you Marie! Thank you Brené! For being volnurable and courageous leaders!

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