Marie Forleo introduction


I'm Marie

You have gifts to share with the world and my job is to help you get them out there.

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Last month, I flew to Houston (prior to Harvey) to interview someone I’m honored to call a friend, Dr. Brené Brown.

We were together at the Women’s March earlier this year. We could barely walk a few feet without someone stopping us to say hi, snap a selfie or simply thank Brené for the difference she’s made.

At the end of my life I want to be able to say I contributed more than I criticized. @BreneBrown Click To Tweet

Her work has already transformed the lives of millions. I believe her latest book Braving The Wilderness: The Quest for True Belonging & The Courage To Stand Alone is a must read for anyone who cares about doing their part to create a more caring and just world.

This conversation will likely go down as one of my MarieTV all-time favorites.

We cover a lot of ground in this conversation, including:

  • Why we can’t stay silent on social issues due to fear of criticism or getting it wrong (Brené has a BA, MA and PhD plus 10 years of experience and still gets nervous)
  • How to stay brave and civil while having difficult social and political conversations
  • The vital distinction between dehumanizing and rehumanizing — this is crucial for us to understand and practice if we hope to heal the polarization in our country and world
  • Why we must practice “braving” if we want to stay connected to ourselves and others
  • How shaming others you disagree with never leads to positive outcomes
  • The 5 words Maya Angelou shared that have shaped Brené’s speaking career

And so much more.

View Transcript

Check out this episode on The Marie Forleo Podcast

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Once you’ve had a chance to watch, I’d love to know.

What is the most important insight you’re taking away from this conversation? And more importantly, how can you turn that insight into action right now? Leave a comment below and let us know.

Share as much detail as you’d like in your reply. Thousands of incredible souls come here each week for insight and inspiration, and your story may help someone else have a meaningful breakthrough.

Important: share your thoughts and ideas directly in the comments. Links to other posts, videos, etc. will be deleted as they come across as spammy.

Thank you so much for reading, watching and sharing your voice. Your kindness continues to make this an extraordinary space for learning and growing.

With so much love,


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  1. I stopped the video 5 minutes in, in order to process the epiphany. I also found a more comfortable spot to sit and a glass of water.
    As a digital nomad, I have no home, and after being called “homeless” a few times I stopped and out of my mouth came “I’m not homeless, I’m Homefull”.
    That feeling of homefullness, finding places to belong wherever I go, is my sense of belonging—nowhere, yet everywhere. I get it!!!!!!!

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Wow, I love that sentiment, Tammy! Homeful is such a beautiful way to put it 🙂

    • Like that a lot, Tammy.

      • Sheena Bell

        Karen that is beautiful!

      • Just had to say hi Katie, because it’s super random to see you here in a sea of comments. 🙂

    • <3
      Love this so much Tammy!

    • Mmmm, wow, beautiful. I love that you gave yourself permission to pause and to drop further in and really process this. I am feeling every word.

      • Tammy

        Thanks Magdalena.

    • Dawn

      That’s beautiful Tammy. So perfectly articulated. Thank you.

      • Tammy Perry

        Thank you Dawn

    • Home is where the heart is Tammy. I’ve walked that digital nomad aspect and am fascinated by the wide variety of elements where I can feel “homefull”.

      • Tammy Perry

        Thank you Denise, so nice to the DM community here!

    • Nathania

      Wow! Thank you for that comment Tammy! After years of being criticized and shamed for being a nomad, for being “homeless”, I found myself stuck and afraid to re-enter the wilderness, afraid that everyone else was right, and ashamed for abandoning what I know is authentically me. Your words are so perfect, I’m homefull, I’m at home in my heart and I take that with me where ever I go.

      • Tammy Perry

        So glad it was helpful, and that you are homefull!

        • Stephanie

          Also, Tammy, I felt when being in different parts of the world (or being nomadic) it takes much more courage and strength to keep your voice and to remain present and true to who you are. Until someone has walked this lifestyle… they will not understand that this is an intentional journey of self search and awareness. Beautiful ? thankful for the exchanges here.

          • Tammy

            Yes, very sweet people feel pity when they think I have no physical home base, but it makes me feel great, the freedom is essential for me. It is an intentional journey, for me it isn’t about self-search, it is the result of a self-search that helped me see that my happy place is no place, and every place. This lifestyle does bring an incredible awareness of your own gifts and clarifies that you are needed in this world. I feel like every exchange is important. 🙂 Thank you!

      • Sue

        I just felt shamed for having a flower icon. I choose to not have my picture so that I can keep a small portion of my privacy. I decided to do that when I started on FB years ago. Not because I didn’t want to put myself out there due to some measure of shyness but because the internet isn’t always a safe place to be.

        • Tammy

          What caused that feeling Sue?

        • Christina

          The flower icon was an example. The point to that example was those who act as shit disturbers who comment in shameful ways, who say something to get a rise out of others and are not accountable for their actions. Have the flower icon! celebrate it – speak your truth even if your voice shakes. I encourage you to go back and watch/listen to the interview again and again until you get the whole picture rather than the “i do this and Brene hates that so i’m not enough.” You. Are. Enough.

    • Amy

      Homefull is wonderfully succinct. It’s a perfect way of turning a possible negative into an eternal positive. And it makes the listener really pause and think about what makes a place a home for someone. It’s different for everybody, and it should be. Thank you for adding to the conversation.

    • Traveling the path of being a global homeful family member! Great epiphany. <3 Thanks for sharing Tammy.

    • Rachel Kendall

      Wow, I love your concept of home, that you are not homeless, but homefulness, we each must find what is our sacred place of peace and comfort, it is no ones place to tell us that if is wrong, I love your insight of who you are and have your own sense of belonging. I am continually on a journey to find who I am, I am the square peg in the round hole, but I prefer to not be like everyone else, I am an individual with my own beliefs and ideas, I help others to process and find themselves. Tammy thank you for sharing!

      • Rachel, I used to think I had to be conscious of not being like everyone else, until I realised that we are all connected, like intricate pieces of a puzzle. All of those puzzle pieces are unique—not one is the same as the other. They each share colours and patterns and opposing shapes, but link together to form a work of art. Perhaps you are not the square peg in the round hole, but a very intricate piece that you have not yet rotated to click into place. 🙂 With love.

      • Janice

        Good one Rachael! I’ve been there and doing it!

    • Marie was right about this episode, you cover a lot of ground. I’ll be watching and rewatching. Thank you so much for following your gut, going to Texas and making this happen. Brené, thank you as well.
      On January 21 this year, when women were marching, I was working so I decided that I would call out any misogyny I saw on FB as my participation in the March.
      One friend called Mrs. Trump a “mailorder whore” and I hesitated before calling him out on it. I knew it would create a whole shizzle-storm and I really didn’t want to have to deal with it. But, encouraged by the march, I called him out on it, and the storm began. Wow. It was so hard for me to deal with, I ended up deleting my account and thinking of better ways to stand my ground. Better ways to make an impact. I wrote a heartfelt blog post about it on my personal page. It was hard because it was a waste of time. The person and those participating were completely close-minded. The people who agreed with me told me later that they sat back and watched and found it entertaining.
      Is it worth it to call out misogyny, etc. on social media? Did I run away?
      What do you think? What is a better way to address misogyny and the like?

      • I’m not sure if you ran away or not. Only you can know that.

        I know that in some interactions, I’m sometimes so SHOCKED by some of the things people say, that I’m stunned into silence, don’t know how to react and so I don’t in the moment. Later, when I’m regrounded, I think about what I wish I’d said. And then in the next time that shocking thing comes up again, I’m better prepared to respond.

        So, if you didn’t say/do what you wish you’d done in that particular situation, I’m guessing it may come up again. The universe is funny that way. It keeps presenting the lesson until we learn it.

        big hug to you

      • Dana

        I don’t think you ran away, I just finished listening to Dr. Maya Angelou on Super Soul Sunday and she talked about kicking people out of her home for saying things she didn’t agree with or want in her home. That stuck with me for 1. that takes an amazing amount of courage to tell someone to leave your home and 2. how freeing is it to remove the negative energy! I think that’s what you did. You didn’t want to be involved with the negativeness and while you couldn’t physically kick them out of your home you removed yourself from the negativity, because you don’t need to surround yourself with that. Thats a dangerous place to be.

      • I have ways to handle such things: don’t use big words, but little ones.
        Just say, “I find that kind of comment hurtful and discouraging.” You can say more, like, “I don’t know how to answer, yet I find the topic so important.”
        Then move on. Don’t use words like “misogyny” – for as many times as I’ve heard it in my relatively educated life – I can never remember what it actually means – I get all kinds of technical words mixed up. And why use it? It implies special knowledge that inadvertently confuses or shames those not so familiare.

        I think people who stand up to hurtful language, or dismissive or “blaming” language – or even threatening – don’t realize that the person speaking is not thinking openly about the impact of their words – but neither are you, if you use words like misogyny – defining characters of others at all, is shaming. All you can do, I find that works – is to illuminate to someone the impact of their words, then be quiet. Let them have time to reflect later, take in the idea that their words have impact that they may not see, and they can learn without being interpreted.

    • Samira

      Homefull ….. wonderful…. 🙂 🙂 🙂

    • Anna Magdalena Lipinska

      <3 love it – homefull <3

    • Norma Moreno

      Yes!! I love your epiphany Tammy!! ❤

    • Pip

      OMG Homeful! Wonderful!

    • That’s awesome!

    • Awesome Tammy! I’m inspired by your homefullness!

    • Me too – though I’ve been a cultural, class, race, country, disability international nomad, not just a digital one. I’m now 74. I found myself able to notice those who are shut out or misunderstood, because that started for me in my early life, in a family overwhelmed and skewed to protect others, and take my “kindness” and just use it for tasks they did not feel able or have time to do. But being a nomad leaves me often surprised if my words or tone upset someone – and the current culture hasy so prioritized manners used by academics or midddle class – assumptions of speaking style – shutting out different topics, which left me afraid to speak, always hiding. I love the focus here on bravery as ability to belong nowhere/ everywhere. So instead of trying to show up everywhere, all the time so I can hope to belong, I can take part, and also say, on my time: I’m currently overwhelmed, I’ll be back, see you then. Claim my schedule, don’t let people say you won’t get anywhere that way. Say “I care about you, but I have other things to address, for they are mis-informed. (I’ve tried so hard to keep up in key places that I don’t even make time to develop my website – and update storage systems as I fear staying too isolated long enough to learn).

  2. I can’t wait to read Brene’s new book. I have felt a sense of homelessness before and it never felt good. I love the idea of homefull. That’s my new word! I’ll use it and feel the love of new connections and belonging.

  3. Rose

    I loved this video – thank you for sharing it. I think what struck me most was, “I will not be moved,” because it is so SO important to have and keep values, even when it isn’t what the world thinks is the cool point of view.

  4. I loved this video so much. It made me feel like the universe is conspiring to help me today. It’s just what I needed to hear. It’s what everyone needs to hear.

    Gonna buy the book.
    I’ve always felt like I don’t belong to any group or country. Always thought of it as a form of freedom. Freedom from the chains of having to please others by compromising yourself.
    When you truly achieve this state you become truly tolerant and truly generous.
    Beautiful message. Let’s share this far and wide.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      We’re so glad you loved this episode, Stephanie … I know it’s definitely something I needed to hear too. I hope you enjoy checking out Brené’s book! 🙂

      • Stephanie

        I can’t wait too. Safe travels to Marie as she returns home. I know travel can be rough. May we all be in a wilderness state of mind (true to our real self) as we venture the day ahead. Wherever we are… that’s where the magic happens. Whomever we meet… may the wilderness grow organically.

  5. Melissa

    I really loved everything she said, just amazing. Thank you Marie for sharing such treasures. It really was inspiring to me. She just said what true is.
    “If you have Nothing to say, just shut up”. So true. People are just talking but doing Nothing to change the world in a positiv way.

  6. What a wonderful heartfelt interview! Thank you so much Marie + Brené for sharing so much wisdom. I absolutely love that quote from Maya Angelou and she is one of my trusted advisors as well. 🙂
    As a woman of color, I’ve had to speaking up because not speaking means losing my rights and even my life. “We belong to each other,” in my mind is using the word belonging in the highest sense of the word — being a family that extends beyond blood, religion, race and gender. When one member or a group of the human family is ostracized, dehumanized, or violated and we stand by silently we cease to belong to one another and ourselves because the act of silence in essence rejects our humanity. So every time we don’t speak up we lose a bit of ourselves. The only way to gather these fragmented bits isn’t through shame but as Brené said “through millions acts of kindness” and that begins in our own homes and the conversations we partake in.
    Thanks you again for this beautiful conversation.

    • One of the most personal revealing topics you’d ever had. It totally reached deep in my soul and reinforced all the “right” things I’d stand for!
      Thank you both ??

    • These were the most powerful points for me as well. I am so grateful for this conversation between these two generous souls and am sharing with many.

  7. It’s amazing the way things seem to find us just at the time we need them. Admittedly, I receive your emails regularly but often do not make the time to watch the video.

    Today, I felt compelled to watch immediately and I’m so glad that I did. The biggest things that stuck out to me were the actionable terms we can break trust down into. BRAVING made the light bulb immediately go off regarding tensions with my client work and personal relationships. I feel like I have a new arsenal of ways to talk about trust issues that will result in productive instead of damaging conversations.

    The other huge piece that drew me in was dehumanizing and recognizing the ways I have grown more comfortable doing this with people I feel have opposing perspectives from my own and how dangerous this can really be.

    This is a must share for the times we are living in.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Oh we’re so honored you felt inspired to check out this episode right away, Cara, and thank you for sharing your insights! I love the actionable steps nestled within the idea of “braving” too – so many people want to take steps to make a difference and don’t know where to start, so we were thrilled to share Brené’s work this week.

    • Astrid van Wanum

      Me too! Glad there are people out there like Brene and Marie!

  8. MaryJayne Waddell

    Thank you both! The big take away for me was “contribute instead of criticize” It’s so easy to criticize and I’m wondering, what’s the pay off to it? Is it I feel better about myself if I can find something “wrong” about someone else. From now on I’ll be attentive to when the need to criticize comes up and see how I can switch that need to something else. I am Director of Education at a professional theatre company and I’m developing a program for teens who are pursuing a career in the arts. I think Braving will be a wonderful tool for these kids as well as myself. Many thanks, MJ Waddell

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Wonderful, Maryjayne! I hope “braving” is a helpful tool for those kids you’re working with. How amazing if kids everywhere were taught that at a young age!

  9. Maria Zedda

    Hi! it’s a first for Marie: no subtitles for the video???? Please put the subtitles in, I really would like to understand what Marie and Brene’ are talking about but I’m deaf.
    thanks guys…

    lots of love


    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Hi Maria! Our episodes are all professionally transcribed and fully captioned – just click the little “CC” button and they should pop right up. I just tested it out myself and they seem to be working on our end (whew!), so if you’re still running into trouble, please write us at info AT marieforleo DOT com and we’ll be happy to help troubleshoot!

  10. Lesley

    Dear Marie, i was feeling a little lost this evening, my heart wanting connection to thoughts that ground me, feel less alone and uplifted. I am grateful that your email dropped into my inbox and placed me listening to you and Rene sharing wisdom that rejuvenated my spirit. I can sleep now. Thank you both, with tears and smiles.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      What a beautiful note, Lesley! We’re so glad you’re feeling uplifted, and know you have big love coming your way ♥

  11. LOVED this interview Marie! I was tearing up with both of you at the end! Absolutely love Brenés message, she is so brave and an inspiration to encourage and promote change in the world. I cannot WAIT to get my hands on her new book! Thanks for all that you do and share!

  12. Marjan

    Always learning the best from your shows. Thank you so much and many blessings.

  13. I loved everything in the conversation! I did not intend to listen now (but clicked the button) but, I couldn’t stop as it was so honest, pure and important subject. The time flew:-) Thank you!

    • Honest, pure and soooo important – I totally agree!

  14. Excited to watch the vid later today. It’s already on my to do list is for today to buy three copies. 🙂

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Love it, Tonia! ♥

  15. I love Marie’s commitment to change in the world that matters, and to core human values.
    The subject of dehumanizing / rehumanizing that Brené discusses here is nothing less than a key issue of the survival or failing, not only of our current democratic structures, but of the entire human enterprise. Refraining from dehumanizing is not a nice-to-have that sweetens the tone of things, it is the must-have of any conversation worthy of the name.
    This meant so much – thank you!

  16. Loved this conversation! Especially about the dehumanising and dehumanising ways we have conversations especially in the current political climate and how little impact criticing and shaming people has.
    As an aside I loved Brene’s comment on smart wool socks..ha!
    Love and More Love

    • Judee

      Thank you for this video…especially right now <3

  17. Wow you guys! I love this so much! This is exactly the wisdom we need right now and as usual Brené finds a way to open our hearts and minds in ways that no one else can. The Facebook live post was the beginning of this dialogue and this is just continuing it for me.
    I can’t wait to see you on Thursday in Charlotte Brené with some of my tribe.
    I think I know what will be our next book club book.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      What a wonderful and important book for your book club, Lillie! And how cool that you’re going to see Brené soon too 🙂

  18. Wendy

    Wonderful interview with two people who inspire me so much! I look forward to reading this book. Brene’s work is so good and so important. Thank you both for being YOU! xo, Wendy

  19. Angelika Hartung

    OMG! Thank you for sharing this video. I needed to get this reminder that words are so powerful how we use them! The quote is so true: ” Take responsibility for the energy you bring into a room!” (Jo Boulty Taylor). What we write, say, tweet, fb etc. is energy that we put “on air” and we should think twice what we are spreading out to the world. Put out in the world good, lovely thoughts, because the world needs this much more than ever!!!

  20. Melissa

    It seems I’ve been watching the dehumanization of our culture in general in slow motion for the past 30 years and within the past 5 years it has progressed exponentially. (Hello, Social Media?) Everyone needs to hear Brené’s message. I feel like we are lacking basic human decency and I think it is simply because people “negotiate” who they are on a regular basis in search of belonging – looking outside themselves instead of inward toward who they really are. I can’t wait to read this book and share it with my 17 y.o. daughter. It says what I really want her to hear and understand and live. Thanks so much for sharing your insight, Brené, and thank you, Marie, for providing food for thought.

  21. Patricia Pariente

    Great conversation, thank you both so much for such an inspiring talk….

  22. Daniela

    I loved everything from this interview but especially Marie’s hair =D It fitted so well with the topic and how natural both Marie and Brené seem. I felt like we were watching every-day-home Marie. Thanks for this interview, Marie!
    Though I agree with almost everything it was said, I still feel confused about the definition of negativity. Is being politely critical, negative? I’ve followed Marie for years, and I must confess that sometimes I have the sensation than being critical is not allowed, that everything we say has to be positive and praise others, then disagreeing is perceived as being negative. Maybe I am wrong, and that’s just my perception, but I would appreciate having a definition of what is considered “negativity” by Marie and her show. I think that if we want to learn to disagree politely, we must be open for others to criticize our ideas (not our persona) without saying that they are negative. I adore the person that is Marie and the work she does, but I can still disagree with her in the comments and not be considered, because of that, as someone who is bringing negativity, right?

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much for commenting, Daniela – I definitely hear that it can be a fine line or a grey area sometimes between being negative vs. simply disagreeing.

      To clarify, when we say we don’t condone negativity, that doesn’t mean we only want people to comment and share who agree with us – it’s all about the spirit in which opposing viewpoints are shared. It’s absolutely possible to disagree respectfully, and we welcome all different perspectives when they’re shared from a place of kindness.

      For me, finding that line is mostly about understanding WHY we want to post and getting in touch with our inner curiosity. Are you open to a conversation and learning about other perspectives (even if you don’t change your own)? If so, that’s wonderful and it’s absolutely possible to ask questions or bring up issues without being negative.

      An example could be saying something like “I hear your point on X, but on Y I’ve read a lot of studies that show it’s not very effective and it’s not something I believe in. Do you have any examples or articles with more information about Y? I’d love to hear more.”

      It’s not negative at all and opens the door for a real conversation. As Brené shares, it is definitely much harder to do this than to simply say “I don’t like this!” but the more we can respectfully discuss our differences, the more connected we’ll be together.

      I hope that helps, and thank you for tuning in this week!

      • Daniela

        Hi Caroline,
        Thank you for your extent answer. My view is similar to what you have described. In fact, I prefer this type of debate or conversation than just agreeing because we are afraid to disagree or disagreeing just for the sake of it. Neither way constructs anything.
        The reason I felt as I described in my first comment is that there is something in MarieTV that conflicts me deeply:
        You’ll see, I am a scientist, specifically, a neuroscientist. Neuroscience is on trend right now, and sometimes Marie has quoted some research to support her opinion. On other videos, she also praises science in general. However, there are some interviews she had done to people that promote unscientific things, like tapping or the horoscope. Isn’t this a big contradiction? How can Marie or MarieTV as a show, use science to back up their information and at the same time giving space to promote unscientific practices?
        I know this is a community of entrepreneurs and hey, if someone buys tapping and the horoscope, so be it. However, if we consider scientific discoveries are the successful result of education, a social cause in which Marie is deeply involved, and I also believe in, then isn’t promoting unscientific businesses against education? Why would anyone want to get educated if by selling the horoscope you can run a business and survive? Why having an education if the point is to sell whatever people are willing to buy regardless of its veracity?

        Anyway, I know this is a complicated question. I would deeply like to know how Marie and the team solve this conflict because it’s one that I also have and I haven’t been able to solve completely. As you can see, I have more questions than answers, and though this might seem like criticism, it comes from my genuine interest in finding together a solution to this “ethical/moral/philosophical problem.”

        Thank you!

        • Grey Gibson

          It seems to be that in the way you appear to define science is that it is something carved in stone, a set of laws that cannot be changed. This seems a bit ironic given how much has, and is, always changing in science and the importance of scientists being open to new discoveries. Scientists like artists have to be able to sit in ‘not knowing’ or ‘negative capability’ as the poet Keats put it sometimes. But with regard to one thing you mentioned – tapping/energy psychology – there is plenty of scientific evidence (not just the experience of people like me who wouldn’t be here without it). So here’s some hard information for you. Energy psychology (EP) modalities have been researched by more than 100 investigators in at least 7 countries. As of 2016, over 80 research studies have been published on EP modalities; out of these only one has not shown efficacy. There have been 43 RCTs published on energy psychology approaches. Four meta-analyses have also been completed. Three of these have demonstrated large effect sizes and the 4th demonstrated a moderate effect size. See the Association for Comprehensive Energy Psychology for references and more information. The link is here. You might want to read on that site Dr. Phil Mollon’s article on “Debunking the ‘Pseudoscience’ Debunkers” as well.

          • Daniela

            No, science is not carved in stone. I agree with you on that. But not because science improves with time, it means that everything that doesn’t prove now as valid will be proved as such in the future and therefore we could talk about it as if it was true. It will, or it will not.

            In the meantime, we could eternally share links that either support or contradict the EP issue, so I am not gonna go into that. However, I do recommend you to check the Wikipedia articles on the topic (you can find them as Emotional Freedom Techniques and Energy Medicine). I suppose we can agree on the fact that Wikipedia might be less biased on this issue than

            On the other hand, any scientist knows that a scientific article (either in favor or against) is not a fact. So far, all research done on this matter shows inconclusive results, so at this point, we cannot say that EP works because some papers seem to show positive results on its effects. We just cannot say it yet. And again, not because we cannot say it now, it means that we will say it in the future.

            Because of the lack of conclusive evidence, and because you’re dealing with health-related topics, I think the responsible thing would be to wait for more evidence before promoting such a thing. If we are going to be comfortable with doubt (which a real scientist is), we should also be satisfied with waiting for evidence (something some scientists are not pleased with and hence they promote their science as the truth). If we are ok with selling EP as useful before having conclusive evidence, then we cannot complain when the pharmaceuticals are selling their drugs before knowing the side effects, don’t you think? But we do want to see the side effects of drugs and treatments before we start paying for them. The same should apply to EP: before paying I want to know if it’s beyond any doubt that it works.

            Still, your reply in defense of EP doesn’t tackle my concern about the contradiction between supporting education and at the same time giving a platform to a business promoting the horoscope, something that, contrary to EP, we do know beyond any doubt that it doesn’t work. I don’t understand why would MarieTV give a platform to a business that contradicts all that education teaches us. Do you?

        • Mandy - Team Forleo

          Marie’s goal in everything she does is to help people create a business and life they love, and we acknowledge that different things work for different people and different people find comfort in different things. That’s why Marie talks about a wide range of topics and encourages her audience to trust their inner wisdom and do what they feel is best for them. There are all sorts of things that haven’t been proven by science but that people find comfort in, and that’s totally okay. We don’t want to judge or police what others feel is best for their lives––merely present the information we have and hope it helps those who need it. And in doing so, we wouldn’t encourage you to do anything you feel uncomfortable with or that goes against your unique values as a scientist. Only you know what’s best for you. I hope this clarifies!

          • Daniela

            Mandy, thanks for your answer. However, I feel it my responsibility to discuss something you said.

            When you say, “There are all sorts of things that haven’t been proven by science but that people find comfort in”, you are arguing against reason (which its exercise is the main aim of education) in favour of comforting feelings: “It doesn’t matter if science -the greatest achievement of education, finds it true or not as long as it feels good”.

            In history, there have been many values that we now consider an abomination: slavery, how women were not allowed to vote, homosexuality, etc. Many defended those values because they felt uncomfortable with the opposite ones. You wouldn’t say “hey, let’s not make them respect people of color or women or homosexuals if they don’t feel comfortable with those things or if they go against their values.” No! You would fight against these unfair ideas, right? You would educate people, and I think we would all agree here that letting them keep their hateful views, let alone practicing them, so they don’t feel bad about our opposition, would be insane.

            And yet, I understand that we have to take care of each other’s feelings. I am not saying that factual arguments should be more critical than how do you deliver them. But in the same way, we cannot ignore politely-delivered facts just because the facts themselves make us feel uncomfortable.

            In her book, Marie said: make isness your business. Well, science is all about that: The issness in the world. Ignoring it just because it’s uncomfortable is the opposite of making isness your business.

            Of course, science won’t tell what the best for each of one of us is. Yes, that is a decision we have to make by our own, and there is a limit to the amount and quality of information you could gather. In the end, yes, it might seem that is a decision coming from the guts. I have nothing against doing what it feels right for you, but if you prefer to base your decision on the horoscope than on more sounding information just because believing in the horoscope feels better, then education has failed you.

            Feelings and emotions are essential to our existence. No doubt about that. But I think that the idea of following what is comfortable to us is the extreme opposite of reasoning and that it’s dangerous.

            As I recently wrote:

            “I believe that Brexit, Trump winning the American election, the reside of populism in democratic countries, and the rejection of the ‘experts,’ are the results of an imbalance between our ability to think and our capacity to feel. We have paid so much attention to reason that we have neglected the emotional side of the human experience. Sick of being rational because it does not seem to have worked (the economic recession of 2008, unemployment, etc.), together with the increasing amount of false information that confirms our biases, we have chosen to believe whatever gives us comfort regardless of its veracity. If being rational doesn’t work, maybe being emotional does. If deciding with the head has taken us to be politically and economically disenfranchised (no jobs, no protection, politicians represent the banks’ interests, not ours, etc.), maybe deciding with our stomachs and hearts will take us somewhere different. It is too complicated now to know the truth, but we can feel our truth, which Facebook confirms. We need to bring back a balance between reason and emotion, between feeling what we want the truth to be and the critical thinking required to test our emotion-based hypotheses, between finding comfort in our emotions and the excitement in the intellectual debate. It is in this balance that individuals would be able to embrace both reason and emotion simultaneously.”

            I invite this community to re-establish a balance between reason and feelings by being able to change your mind through reason or feeling comfortable in not knowing, instead of promoting comforting lies or unproven health techniques. Yes, life would be more comfortable if the horoscope worked and we could heal ourselves through tapping, but the issness of the business is that reality and life are not that simple.

  23. I was really taken with the idea that keeping confidences goes beyond not telling secrets, but also includes not sharing stories that are not yours to share. This happens so much, so easily. People (I’m sure myself included) do this all the time. We use other people’s stories to feel good about ourselves…and that isn’t brave or authentic. Thanks so much for that reminder!

    From now on, I’m going to be much more mindful about what I share and when I share it.

    Also, I LOVE the idea that we should not walk through the world looking for evidence that we are not enough or that we are not valuable. SO true, but so hard to learn and do. The urge to appeal to everyone is so human, but clearly, so unrealistic and self-defeating.

    The idea that “I am the wilderness is SO freeing and beautiful.”

    Thank you for this wonderful, wonderful episode…both of you! <3 <3

    • Ginger Cr

      Yes! I had that same ‘ah-ha’ moment as you about the vault while watching the interview, but then by the time I got to the end of the video I had had so many other ‘ah-ha’s” that the impact of the realization had worn off. Reading your comment resurrected it for me.

      There have been times when I have traded information to for connection without realizing its impact. I can also look back and recognize moments where people have shared information with me that wasn’t theirs to share. I’ve been in work situations where I was asked to share information meant to be kept in a vault because it was “affecting work”. Whatever reason we use to justify in the moment why we break that confidence doesn’t really matter. This was an excellent reminder that we shouldn’t use stories that aren’t ours as currency for getting what we want or to get further ahead.

    • Helen Wilkie

      This one hit home for me too, Brett. Sometimes I tell a story about someone else just because I found it interesting — not because it’s gossipy. There’s no malice in it, so I just do it. But looking at it through this lens, I see that these stories are not mine to tell, and I’m going to be mindful of this now.

    • Stephanie

      I liked the vault concept too and plan to use that even more in my life.

    • Tammy

      “I was really taken with the idea that keeping confidences goes beyond not telling secrets, but also includes not sharing stories that are not yours to share. ”

      So true and a kick in the pants for me. So guilty of this.

  24. Ginger Cr

    Loved this so much! People can always find reasons to justify their own negative speak. This echoed what I’ve felt for so long and reminded me that avoiding the difficult conversations out of fear is privilege. There are always going to be people that disagree with you or don’t understand your point of view, but there are far more constructive things you can do than just ignore or walk away from the dialogue all together.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Exactly, Ginger! This is such a great reminder for all of us. Thank you for watching this week!

  25. Flora Elmore

    It was truly nice to hear someone else say something that I have been saying for months – the words we used to describe one another should be equal shared. If you hate the words being used to describe the women in the spot light of your love, but you turn around and use those same hate words to describe other women you are not in alignment with on the belief and behavior scale then shut the fuck up because you are not helping the situation. I had to check myself during the election because I found myself getting sucked into the void of negative bashing. I started asking myself constantly “am I bringing A energy to this moment?”
    For me curiosity has always been the key to getting me and my family to show up for a learning moment. When I see people fighting I am constantly asking why and I listen to both sides even when I don’t agree. I simply want to understand – that is how my compassion works.
    This was a great segment and thanks for sharing it.

  26. Valerie

    This was my favorite episode so far. Especially loved her description of herself, I pray and I cuss.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      We’re so honored to hear this was your favorite, Valerie! I love Brené’s description of herself too 😀

  27. Katie Geddes

    How this applies to romantic relationship struck me. That we’re alone “in the wilderness” in a close relationship at the same time as belonging and that the courage to really acknowledge and live that makes us great, compassionate partners. And how trying to force belonging doesn’t actually create the belonging we’re initially craving. It’s, to me, another example of how “detaching” allows real connection. Love paradoxes, whether towards humanity or towards an individual.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      I love this insight, Katie! I hadn’t thought about it as applicable to romantic relationships at first, but it SO is. 🙂

  28. Brilliant. I’ve shared this with my friends list and a few particular friends who I know would absolutely love this. Also! I remember the FB live Marie was referring to. There were some difficult comments in that! That was amazing, Brene. I commend you for speaking on the Charlottesville topic.

    Omg. The last bit there “I am the wilderness”. That was gorgeous. Thank you.

  29. This was amazing! Thank you both for such a great message, one I think everyone should hear! Keep doing what you’re doing!! xoxo

  30. April Beam

    I love this interview because I love both of you. You’re both so important to me and do such great work. I love the message that Dr. Brene Brown brings to us. I hadn’t thought about it this way… the desensitization of those who are not exactly like me. She is literally a quote a minute and I will listen to this video over and over again. I have already taken a quote and shared it on my facebook wall. It is shocking how she is able to get right into the pulse of every human on the planet and what is truly upsetting us and keeping many of us from leading happier lives. We’ve been desensitized! I didn’t even realize that until this interview. Marie – this is your best interview ever! And you’ve had many!! Good on you, girl!! Love, April

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Oh thank you so much, April! This is already one of our all-time favorites too. Brené is amazing!

  31. WOW! When I heard THIS part, I instantly had this goosebump-creating feeling that my life is being changed in this very second. THIS PART is what resonated with me a million percent, it’s SO well put in words:

    “Don’t walk through the world looking for evidence that you don’t belong. Because you’ll always find it.
    Don’t walk through the world looking for evidence that you’re not enough, because you’ll always find it.
    Our worth and our belonging are not negotiated with other people. We carry those inside of our hearts.”

    Needless to say, I’ve been waiting to see my two favourite role models in one interview together for a couple of years now. …It was worth the wait. <3

    Thank you, Brene and Marie, for sharing your fucking wilderness. 🙂

  32. Great conversation with Brene Brown, she’s one of my favorite researchers, on a much needed topic. I also attended University of Houston and live in Texas so I LOVE that you visited Buc-ees! Anyway, this is a much-needed converation as I see so much anger and hatred online these days, I would say it started brewing back when Trayvon Martin was shot and continued throughout the Obama Administration. It’s been somewhat discouraging and has me pulling back instead of leaning in, which is not my nature at all. I have so much to say but I’ve found myself not wanting to say anything so as not to offend my friends which are of every ethnicity you can imagine. It’s been hard to have these conversations, especially on social media. Two things Brene said really struck me. “Opting out of speaking out is the definition of privilege” and “I’m not going to let my imperfection move me out of the conversation”. I have a lot to say, in a very compassionate and understanding way. I have to use my voice to contribute in a positive way to creating change in our country. I have to speak out and lean into those difficult conversations. This MarieTV really helped me to understand that I can’t stand on the sidelines with my indignation and ideas for fear that no one will agree. It takes courage to stand up for what you believe. I think tonight I’ll start having one of those difficult conversations with my two sons about what happened in Charlottesville, one who happens to look a lot like Trayvon. I can’t wait to read Dr. Brown’s new book. Thanks again!

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Franka, I totally hear you about that feeling of pulling back instead of leaning in … especially tuning in to social media and seeing what feels like an overwhelming amount of hate.

      It’s personally been heartening for me to see so many people starting to step up and be willing to have difficult conversations in a respectful way, and we hope that the work Brené is doing will spread far and wide!

    • Sonja

      I have been the same Franka, afraid to raise topics with family or friends, because so few people seem willing to even listen to another viewpoint, let alone try and understand another. They are right and that’s that. But I have been putting my toe in the water and frankly, I don’t think I want to be around people who are unwilling to try and understand another. Our purpose here is to love and grow. You cannot grow as a human is you refuse to learn about others. And it is hard work, especially in today’s climate. Very simply, for me, is that I don’t want to “get” anymore (I never really did but that was the American dream right?), I want to give. I believe there is enough of whatever one needs, and that we can all co-exist. I don’t have to like someone or a group, but it is my job as a human to try and understand your life. Violence and hate are never the answers.

      • Totally Sonja and thank you for your comment. I believe this to be true, “I believe there is enough of whatever one needs, and that we can all co-exist”. We just have to focus on serving and giving. We must continue to show love no matter what. Tough stuff, but I’m getting ready to do the work be a part of the transformation that will heal our land.

    • Hey Franka, I also was hit by the ‘privilege’ of choosing to keep quiet rather than speaking out. So often I have sat peacefully whilst others have done or said things that are completely unhelpful. I have been complacent. Recently, however, in the last year or so as increasing ‘fundamentalist’ movements have gained traction all over the globe and especially with the political occurrences in UK and US I have begun to speak my words out loud or in writing. Quite the journey for my Self and an ongoing evolution with those I connect with. Curious to know how your conversations went with your sons. Kia kaha and keep shining!

  33. Monica

    Another Wow! What an amazing video. So enlightening and so real. You both rock!!!! Thank you for this.

  34. What I love most about this, is that conversations like this give people the courage and the tools to create more conversations on their own. Those conversations will create the “million acts of conscienceness and kindness,” or even the 100 million acts, that it will take to heal and remind us, that we truly are ALL in this together. Thank you Marie and Brené for having the courage to put this out and be who you are.

  35. I always love Marie TV but I have to say this is the best interview I have ever heard. I love Brene’ like I know her. I pray, meditate and dream about going to my grave as close to unconditional love as I possibly can. I am about to be certified as a life coach and this is going to be so helpful because it has physically (cellularly), if that’s a word, liberated me to be who I believe myself to be. I feel so welcomed to the Wilderness.
    Thank you, Donna

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      I love this, Donna! Welcome to the Wilderness ♥

  36. Lance Petersaon

    Thanks fro sharing you sit-down with Brene I think most of us, and especially me, need to learn to embrace being uncomfortable is the world and understanding why we are, if we really think we are going to change and evolve ourselves into whom we want to be. We cannot influence or contribute to the world if we are too afraid to get out an n it and ourselves.

  37. Marie, I am often inspired by your interviews and wisdom. This one stand out because of the heart you both bring to it and the love for your fellow humans that is apparent in the words and sharing. Thanks for being the wilderness and encouraging us all!

  38. I have so many friends (and family) that are struggling with how to remain authentically themselves in the face of challenging national politics, racial tensions, and just the downright ick-ness of modern adulting. I see people acting all around me in ways that I think they will come to regret, and it’s been tough to know how to respond. I paused the interview several times to let these thoughts wash over me: I have enough tools to be me AND exist in modern conditions. There is a third path between pure ignorance and pure rage, and it’s loving and accountable. And, from this place of self-embrace, I can more fully embrace others AND the call to action. Thank you, Marie! Thank you, Brene!

  39. Wow! So many wonderful nuggets…from “B.R.A.V.I.N.G” to taking responsibility for the energy you put out into the world (online or even in your community). I’m ordering the book now, and giving several copies away. Thank you Marie and Brené for this enlightening conversation. You’ve made me feel so much more hopeful and empowered. Thank you!

  40. “I shall not be moved” – a beautiful profound sentiment that is actually a quote from the Buddha at the moment just before his enlightenment. As he sat under the tree, the “demon of doubt” sent him all the possible temptations, angers, judgements, and fears to dissuade the Buddha from the path of compassion and wisdom. And the Buddha touched the earth – the earth as my witness – and said “I shall not be moved”.

    What an amazing and important conversation. Speech matters so much – Right Speech – again, from the Buddha – Anger is not healed by Anger, it is healed by love.

    Thank you Marie and Brene for naming the elephant. When we “hate the hater” we become the hater. Watch your language when you talk about that and those that you fear, who frighten you, who create suffering and pain in the world. Ignorance is the cause. Don’t become ignorant. Stand strong.

    Thank you for this profound conversation.

    • Sonja

      We forget or don’t realize the power of words. Think about being a child and being teased or called names. It still hurts when we are adults even though we refuse to acknowledge that. Well spoken Doc!

  41. I am the WILDERNESS!!!!!! ???
    Best interview yet!!!!! ???

  42. brigitta

    omg! loved this…so much to say and yet I’m kind of stuck silent. Thank you Marie and Brenne for tackling this subject…I’m off to buy the book!

  43. Shannon

    This was such a beautiful interview, thank you Marie and Brene. Biggest take-a-way was to stop negotiating my worth and belonging with other people. I will be much more conscious of that!

  44. I LOVE this definition of privilege!

  45. I am B-Schooler, and though I’ve been off the grid for several months, I created a website in the meantime because of B-School. Now that the website has launched, I made a commitment to pick up my B-School lessons again, and no-coincidence, this Marie TV interview with Brene Brown lands in my in box. What a wink from the Universe.
    I have admired Brene ever since I learned about her from Oprah on Super Soul Sunday, then I purchased all Brene’s books. Brene has such unique and amazing clarity when she speaks. Words fascinate me. I so much admire the way she is able to put words together to clearly and effectively communicate a point. To me, her speaking talent (and book writing) is no less than genius. I will be listening to this conversation WAAAYYY more than once.
    Marie, I want you to know, you were the first to teach me about kindness and boundaries (in a website), and am thankful to use this concept in my website because it has the potential for someone to get on a soap-box and finger wag. So I have potential subscribers “agree” to a safe zone with specifics that have to do with no trash talk, no preaching, only supportive input. (My website offers *gentle* help and suggestions for someone in the position of caring for their loved one with dementia.) So thank you for that in B-School.
    Now I hear Brene this morning with you and your incredible conversation. Holy moly, … all I can say is CLEARLY my process and momentum in life is right on course. Thank you for sending this. Thank you. The interview resonated in my heart, and more so in my soul. THANK YOU for taking the time to sit down and talk, thank you for airing this.

    • PS
      Whoops, I’m new at this. Was I supposed to let you know my website name so my comment made better sense? It’s “I forgive, You forget,” and now I’ll click below to receive all comments related to this incredible interview with Brene Brown.
      Again, THANK YOU FOR creating the interview and SENDING-

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much for your comment, Vic. We’re honored to have you in our world as a B-Schooler, and congratulations on launching your website! I love when the Universe aligns so beautifully like that and sends us exactly what we need 🙂

  46. Thank you Marie and Brene’ for this video!
    It has been the best 30 minute start to my workday EVER!
    I have been kicking my fears daily since i’ve launched my business in June. You’ve given me new found courage today . I know I want to contribute to the rise in social consciousness. I will speak up. I will stand alone if I have too. The loving world I forsee needs us , one at a time, to lean in, to listen, and to brave the wilderness. xoxo
    ps. running out to buy the book TODAY!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Love it, Kathy! We’re so happy you’re committing to using your voice as a force for good. We hope you love Brené’s book as much as we did! 🙂

  47. Took tons of notes while you watching your so you talk Brenè and Marie. I am a Public Speaker and Writer. There were loads of topics I relate to. What struck me most was the conversation about being VULNERABLY YOU without trying to fit in. Every time I try to fit in, I feel like the source I am connected to cuts off the connection. So it becomes almost impossible to channel to the source during my speech. I DON’T WANT TO FIT IN. I WANT TO BE “ME”.

  48. Took tons of notes while you watching your so you talk Brenè and Marie. I am a Public Speaker and Writer. There were loads of topics I relate to. What struck me most was the conversation about being VULNERABLY YOU without trying to fit in. Every time I try to fit in, I feel like the source I am connected to cuts off the connection. So it becomes almost impossible to channel to the source during my speech. I DON’T WANT TO FIT IN. I WANT TO BE “ME”.

  49. I love this interview, one of my favourite. ‘In the absence of data, we will always make up stories’
    I think I will have to watch again, so much to process

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That was definitely one of my favorite quotes from this episode too. It helps put a lot of things into perspective!

  50. Sonja


    What an incredible conversation. I want to spend a week with you two and talk!!! So few people want to do the hard work of talking and understanding. I get my hard conversation fixes with my mom and my brother. After the three of us are done, we have solved all the world’s problems!!!!

    What I took away – and is something I have been practicing and trying to articulate (not very clearly) – is that it is as unacceptable to hurt anyone with belittling, disparaging, hateful words. Anyone. You will not accept your tribe to be described or hurt that way, and so you should not accept it for another tribe either. We can – yes! really! – agree to disagree. Put your big person panties on, (untwist the fucking knots), accept that not everyone likes you nor you them, and be part of moving forward. The dialogue of vicious, frightening hate that spews all over media of any kind, has become unacceptable to me. And though I feel I am not “up” on all things political right now, I cannot, WILL NOT, let this dialogue into my mind and heart. It actually feels dirty to me, like I need a shower to wash off the slime of the verbal and visual assault of what is now accepted as normal life. These assaults only magnify the chasm of divisiveness we have dug. I don’t believe our differences divide us – they are exactly what makes the human race so extra-ordinary. We should do nothing but celebrate those differences, learn about each other, and let each other live. Putting your little hate note out into the ether only adds to the festering pile already in existence. People the world over want the same basic things – food, a home, safety for their loved ones, education for their children, a better life for each generation. We won’t get there with hate and division. I have been accused of the rose colored glasses, being naive. So be it. I got very involved in the political events with the election of Trump and all that he is doing to the country, and I found myself responding with apathy or anger to everything in my life. This atmosphere creeps into every crevice and sullies even the good, the joyful, the loving. So I stopped. Cleaned out my brain. And I am staying that way. I am searching for positive ways I can stay connected and involved. (Not following DT on twitter was a big start!) Doing this on my local, every day field will do more than me adding my 2 cents on bigger arenas, except for this post (!). Keep on keeping on girl!

  51. Thank you so much for this wonderful inspiration-I agree with Marie that this interview covers so much ground- I am loaded with mindfulness, dancing with determination and braving with joy. I especially enjoyed the part about being bold in the face of criticism. As an artist I feel the moment I truly authentically deliver is when my desire to inspire is stronger than anything rational. If I fear that boldness however, I often meet dead ends. Thank you so much Brene and Marie for being beautiful, bold examples of women with brave minds. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with this world.

  52. Shoshana

    Dear Marie and Brene, I truly enjoyed watching your conversation today. Marie, I LOVE all of your interviews and other videos. In fact, every week I look forward to taking a little coffee break on Tuesdays and watching. And, (I’m taking a deep breath here), I voted for Trump and I still support him. I think that you would be surprised to know that I probably agree with you politically in most ways, I just see it through a different lens that makes me willing to support Trump for what I think he can accomplish even though I don’t like some of the things he’s said and done in the past. But, he’s not perfect and none of us is perfect either. That’s why I cut him a lot of slack. Anyway, I’m veering off topic. What I want you to know is that I think it’s ok to disagree. We used to be that way as a country and I hope we can return to that value. Thank you for always adding happiness to my day! P.S. Yes, Brene, I’m hiding under my husband’s pet name for me instead of my real name because I’m a total chicken. 🙂

    • This talk made me realize that I’ve been dehumanizing Trump in my own mind as much as white supremacists try to dehumanize other races. Donald Trump is a flawed person, but so am I. In spite of all the things he’s done that I (vehemently) disagree with, I can see the potential for some really good things to come about because of his presidency.

      • Shoshana

        Dear Anita, I just read your comment and I appreciate what you had to say. I want you to know that I’m a Trump supporter and I’m in no way, shape or form a white supremacist. My family is biracial (and my husband voted for Trump also). I actually hate to even break us down into a label like that. We are just people. We are us. We have friends from many different cultures and our favorite thing to do is travel. I come from a business background and that is why I appreciate Trump. I love that he’s bringing his business acumen to DC because I’m concerned about the disorganization there, our high rate of taxation and our debt. Please don’t see a tiny group of bad people in a few cities and assume they represent the millions of people who voted for Trump. It’s just not true.

  53. Oh, I loved this sooooo much. It’s so hard for me to read the many negative, judgemental and down right horrific comments and opinions on social media. I wish people would just talk to each other. Where I struggle, is knowing that there are those out there that have fallen into that unfortunate place where they sub humanize others and genuinely want to hurt people. There is no trust there. Don’t we need to recognize that and protect ourselves? How does forgiveness or turning a blind eye to it, help? I never know how to address that, when I talk about compassion. Also, I have such an issue with the term “subhuman” as it relates to other animals (humans are animals, too). Calling someone a “pig” or a “chicken” or a “cow” as an insult, when those animals are intelligent, sentient beings, who only want to live in peace, seems to me to contribute to “otherness” and “better than”. Compassion for animals is an important step in building compassion for all humans.

  54. OMG! TY TY TY!!!
    Loved the whole episode but especially the “V” for Vault and example given. How many times have I removed myself from relationships because instinctively I knew a conversation was wrong (or multiple conversations). It’s a point that I’ve made to be very careful with peoples information on both a personal and professional level.
    Thank you, Marie and Brene!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      It’s so great to hear you’re conscious of the vault, Mary. I feel like that’s definitely one of the hardest parts of B.R.A.V.I.N.G.!

  55. I love the reminder and support for being mindful of saying things in the positive, not diminishing anyone – not anyone. One of my mentors, Rev. Shannon O’Hurley talks about the quote: “I stand for something and against nothing.” I try to remember that and respond in kind when I see people posting trash talk about people or hear it in person. I take to heart carrying that forth when speaking about our President and some of the people working with him. I am not always good at it. I am also reminded to be thoughtful in what I say, how I say it and whom I say it about.
    I also appreciate standing in my truth and opening conversations that are respectful, not easy, but important.
    Thank you! You are both two of my Shero’s. Love and blessings.

  56. Wow. Wow. Wow.
    This was such a gift and exactly what I need to hear right now. My heart hurts for what is going on in the world and I have felt powerless to do anything. I have been silent for fear of being criticized. Brene’s quote: “Opting out of speaking out because we may get criticized is the meaning of privilege”, blew my mind. I heard her say this during her Facebook live and it changed my life. The very next day I had a scary conversation with someone who didn’t understand and was angry about the term, “white privilege”. I stayed in that conversation and let myself do it imperfectly. Thank you, Brene, for putting words to what has been in my heart. I’m out there BRAVING!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s awesome, Vicki! Having tough conversations isn’t easy, but they’re so necessary. Thank you for speaking out. <3

  57. jan

    I’m wondering if Maya was speaking from a more Buddhist perspective in the opening quote, to be no one and everyone. At the source we are one, I am you, you are me. I have the capacity to be everything you are and you have the capacity to be everything I am. I have the capacity to be a criminal and a hero, we all do. So that when one realizes in terms of belonging, we are everyone, that makes us no one in particular, we are all one, non-duality, as they say in Buddhist terms. So if this was Maya’s meaning, Brene had it a little differently. We would need to ask Maya I guess, but not possible now.

    • The wonderful thing about writing, like other forms of art, is that different people can look at the same thing, and come away with something different, depending on who they are at the time. And revisiting that same piece at another time in your life can potentially give you something different than what you got the first time.

  58. Patricia

    Dear Marie and Brene:
    Thank you so much for sharing this personal game-changing and potentially world-changing perspective today. I agree with you, Marie, this is my favorite episode of Marie TV because the implications are so significant for both personal transformation and diffusing the negativity that spirals all around us. Instead of simply withdrawing from what I perceive as “negativity,” here are practical tools to engage in conversations that must be held if we are to survive as individuals and collectively. It’s so easy to simply avoid the soul-bearing difficulty of engaging online or in-person in ways that bear witness to our authentic beliefs.

    While I find cursing almost impossible to deliver (it’s not me) in the way that many people embrace, I do have a vocabulary that will allow me to be impactful despite the lack of profanity that seems to put many people more at ease with an uncomfortable-to-receive message. My world needs to hear what Brene says, “Shame begets shame; violence begets violence” as a starting point for conversation. I also love the Jill Bolte Taylor quote: “Take responsibility for the energy you bring into the room.”

    One take-away in this video is that intention is everything; i.e., cursing used to hurt versus cursing used to underscore a strongly held belief of valuing each human being. My personal quest is: How can I be authentic and brave in defending all individuals and not shaming them and supporting everyone’s right to live and breathe in harmony — even when others are cursing with intention to hurt? Thank you so much for your insights.

  59. Nathalie

    Infinite possibilities… Thank you for giving me the strength to go forward and discover the wilderness…

  60. Diana Moschos

    Where to begin — this is definitely my fave MarieTV episode. There is just so much to unpack and think about! Brené is absolutely awesome and her wisdom resonates deeply. The first thing that blew me away was the BRAVING check list — it’s a vulnerability touchstone to come back to time and time again! Another thing that really hit me was her definition of privilege. That word often elicits “white” in front it and it certainly isn’t the entire picture. The dehumanizing – rehumanizing concept is also so powerful and so true! At time when vitriol and bullying and shaming are at a fever pitch you can’t help but wonder how will we reclaim humanity, and Brené is there to remind us that each of us has the intrinsic capacity to do what were wired to do– protect and support each other. And finally the opening segment on sense of belonging — wow. I am still reeling from that, but I definitely felt energies shift when Brené broke that down. Thank you Marie for doing this interview and Brené for being your wonderful vulnerable self! I pre-ordered the book last month when Marie promo-ed the interview, so am exciting to dig in when it pops into my Kindle reader today!

  61. I loved this genuine inspiring… perfect imperfect conversation that made me both laugh and cry!! Ready to be BRAVING the Wilderness

  62. Cindy Cieplik

    Thank you! Thank you! Powerful and helpful. Ordering the book, and more importantly re-committing to expanding my tool bag!

  63. Loooved this episode so much. Totally blew my mind and opened my eyes to what i had always known: I am the wilderness. Gotta read it, definitely! Thanks Marie for again an inspiring episode. More kindness, more contribution and no more feeling like I have to change to fit in. Made my day!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      You and your wilderness are amazing just the way you are! 🙂

  64. So i never ever comment…but WOW. I AM THE WILDERNESS!
    Also, I had never truly considered the energetic impact of my language surrounding people I choose to label as “wrong” or “bad” or even when I agree with the language others use about those people. I would like to be more open to engage with others about their strong beliefs when they are different than my own, but it really is hard when I fear that what they think is right also means that they are against me as a woman, minority, or single mother. In my need to preserve or defend my space, or feel safe in an environment where those who are for one thing (i.e. Klan or Trump supporters), I put up energetic walls and brace myself for another wave of anger and sadness that those people may not look at my eyes and see a human being; but I also should not preemptively dehumanize them so that my reaction (or that of others on my “side”) feels more justified.
    What a valuable discussion this will always prove to be, and a great invitation to us all to be open to deeper self exploration.
    Thank you, Marie and Brene

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      It’s definitely a fine line, Takisha. We’d never encourage you to do anything where you’d feel unsafe. You may encounter people in life who aren’t willing to accept your humanity and that’s never a good thing. A person’s inherent worth and human dignity shouldn’t be up for debate. Like Brené talks about at the end of the episode: “I might negotiate a contract with you, I might negotiate a topic with you, but I will not negotiate who I am with you.” If someone is trying to negotiate your humanity and who you are, you’ll have to consider the effect that could have on your well-being and energy, then decide if that’s a conversation you want to participate in. Thank you for commenting and being a part of this important conversation! <3

  65. Farah Gopaul

    Love listening to Brene Brown. So positive and measured in her thoughts and her face always glows with mischief and intelligence.
    Thank you Marie, since crossing 40,,, I too have learnt to trust the ‘Brave’ within me.

    Really awesome talk,,,

    Lots of love, Farah

  66. I’ve always felt like shaming and dehumanising people we don’t agree with felt wrong. It felt like it was contributing to the problem, rather than making positive change. Thank you, Brene, for giving me the words to express these feelings that have been nagging at me. And for reminding me that safety is not a valid reason for speaking out. That I can’t expect to get it perfect, but I have to say it anyway.

  67. Powerful conversation … applicable to a very difficult scenario I’ve just concluded … you really helped me see my part in the interaction and clarified what I will do different as I launch my new business. Thank you Marie for bringing Brene into my office and opening my eyes!

  68. Marci Walker

    Thank you for this. I’ve loved Brenè and have read all her books. And I’ve learned to really challenge myself in to doing things while uncomfortable. I’ve learned to practice. But in today’s interview – so many nuggets! – was this: “When we use dehumanizing language it says much more about us than the people that we’re railing against and it chips away at our soul.” ←– this hit me hard. I felt simultaneously guilty and free to have the words and tools to use in a more kind manner. “If you’re not with us, you’re against us.” This has bothered me so much over the last few years. Of COURSE I care about the police safety! Of COURSE I can’t put myself in this fear of a black man’s heart when he’s pulled over for a broken tail light. Please don’t call me a hater. And just because I have friends who don’t believe my son as a gay man to marry doesn’t mean they hate him. I have to constantly be uncomfortable, but I wouldn’t sleep if I just shut my mouth. Integrity.

  69. This episode is a big game changer, so actual wherever I look on the map…I wish Rene could train both our European and American leaders 😉 …. ordering the book!!! Lots of love to you Marie and team Forleo

  70. I truly admire Brene Brown, but I was disappointed to hear her comment that it’s not our job to heal the white supremacist. I see us as all connected, so part of everything we see is us. We are being shown the contrast so we can become more aware and heal aspects of ourself. In fact, we can’t heal “them” by judging them or needing them to be different. But we can heal the thread of what troubles us (white supremacy, for example) by understanding their wounds and their cry for love. When we accept, include, forgive and release this wounded aspect within ourselves….that IS our job. Healing is our job and healing ourselves is the first step to creating a more compassionate vibration/energy.

    • I agree that we can’t “heal” someone else – that has to come from within them. We can, however, provide conditions that help them to heal themselves, when they’re ready to do so. I don’t think Brene (how do I get the accent mark? lol) would disagree with that.

  71. Tracy

    I saved watching this video for a time I knew I could indulge in the 36 min of greatness (Marie+ Brene- of course it would be amazing).
    *sigh* let’s just say it stirred me in ways it’s hard to articulate. The end had tears flowing. It’s like they were talking to me, in the wilderness. Feeling lost, connected, aligned & unsure all at the same time. It’s like they showed up & said we see you, and while you may not see us as you stand along – we are also out here.
    I could write a book here myself about what this means to me, but I won’t. I just need to say thank you for your work. Thank you for your willingness to be curious & brace.
    I see you both,….in the wilderness. ❤️❤️❤️

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Thank YOU, Tracy! The deep connection you feel to Brené’s words is exactly why this conversation is so important. We appreciate you being a part of it. <3

  72. Steve

    Wow, awesome interview. I thought of so much during this. I thought of my siblings with whom I’m blessed to belong and given the freedom to stand alone when necessary and not be judged. The discussion of shaming and sorry ass tool bags cracked me up and is so true. Thank you both for the conversation!

  73. Joanne

    I present who I am, and my work on learning. I grapple daily with how, and my toolkit grows. Sharing is tough – rejections are hard. I recognize lonely. I persist because I can feel change and connectivity that comes with hard conversations. You proved that today. Thank you.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      You’re doing great, Joanne! It takes a lot of time and experience to build an awesome tool bag. Thank you for being willing to take the initiative and speak out.

  74. Debbie

    I am the wilderness!
    The hard and dark conversations give rise to appreciating and loving the wide open space that resides within me.
    Growing my wilder and wiser from your heart full shares.
    I too am impertfectly me.
    I have only begun to embody my B, in braving.
    My focus, what energy am I bringing to my moments today.

  75. KG

    Shaming is a game power players use to enslave others and get their way. They’ve found shaming works, so they keep doing it. You have to stand your ground, follow your heart and do what you know is right for you to do, no matter other people’s opinion. Power players can also be “do gooders” who think everyone should believe like they do. They use shaming to coerce others to get behind their causes. Shaming and guilt are deeply rooted fears that need to be exposed (stood up to), so you can become free of them. Great vid! Thanks.

  76. There are so many nuggets of wisdom, mind-altering, gut-wrenching sentences in this 30-minute video. The most impact I had was from the “dehumanizing” comment. As well as reminding myself how to be my own wilderness. I had an authentic self when I was in college 20 years ago and somehow it seemed to be lost these days (having moved from India to the US about a decade ago). Thanks for reviving my mind, heart and human-spirit! (and I say this even as an atheist and someone who never cusses)

  77. Crystal

    I love the f**ng wilderness! Love you Marie! I think this conversation was made for me at this time in my life.

  78. Lea

    too good not to forward this!!!
    I had a scary experience a couple of days ago and it run after me all these days when (law of attraction) this very same guy went for me this morning to argue and threatended me if I am not his friend I will be now his enemy, I was so scared and worried and at the same time felt as a huge coward, this beautiful video gave me lots of answers. Thanks for that

    Need definitely have to get this book
    Thanks to both of you beautiful girls out there, who make the world a little bit better every time you shine and show up. Thanks for that

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      I’m so sorry that happened to you, Lea! That does sound scary. I’m so glad this video gave you the answers you were looking for and I hope things get better soon.

  79. Fantastic video! Thank you so much to both of you for the work you do in the world. This was helpful for me as a coach and speaker/teacher. Sometimes I’m asked to work in ways that are out of alignment. I always say, “I’m not your girl for this.” Sometimes I worry that I may have passed up an opportunity or I’ll get stuck in my head from a business building perspective. I’m so grateful for the work of both of you and for the constant validation of truth.

  80. “At the end of the day, at the end of the week, and at the end of my life, I want to be able to say that I contributed more than I criticized.” YAAAAAAASSSSSS!!!! That’s going on the inspo board!
    Thank you BOTH for the work you do. You’ve both made my life better in so many ways. Pre-ordered so my book is coming today! (insert happy dance here)

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Such a great quote! Marie said once, “it’s easier to critique a thing than it is to make a thing” and it really stuck with me. How true that is!

      • So true! “It’s not the critic that counts” right!? So good to remember.

  81. Wow this episode really touched my heart. I love the thought about belonging, as several others have mentioned. As an expat who lives in all over the world, I really do feel at home everywhere and I think that has come over the years from being comfortable with myself and living and being my own person, whether or not others like me. I loved when Brene said she won’t change who she is -how important is that and what is crazy is how many times we are asked to change ourselves as though this is normal. Yes, it is hard and takes effort to say no, I won’t change who I am, I won’t negotiate that! Thank you can’t wait to read the book!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Love this, Helen! It takes the old saying “home is where the heart is” to a whole new level. Being confident in who you are really does make all the difference.

  82. fiona

    Totally inspirational Marie TV. SOOOOO much to think about, reflect on and just plain put into use right now. Loving the practice of stopping looking for evidence that we aren’t enough or we don’t fit in. Really moved by the dehumanization stuff and challenging myself to take a firmer stand against dehumanising language in self and others.

  83. Therese Sandhage

    I am the Wilderness. It’s a beautiful place which has no rules about how I am to think, act, say, feel, or look. I no longer have time for someone’s opinion of me. My opinion of me is what matters.

  84. Mariella

    I am the wilderness.

  85. Wow! I just love both of you. This is one was my favorite for sure. I have read all of Brene’s books. Can’t wait to get this one. Thank you, Marie. You fucking ROCK!!!!!

  86. The end had me in tears. I am the fucking wilderness.
    So many things to take away from this interview. I feel like I need to watch it again and take notes to absorb as much as possible. Thank you Marie and Brene!

  87. Sherry Kurtz

    OMG I love Brenne’ so much! She is one of those people, for me, who says things in a way that is like she’s completing a thought for me–she explains what I struggle to put into words. She’s genuinely brave and at 58, what I want to be when I grow up. I specifically love that she said, “Don’t walk through the world looking for evidence that you don’t belong because you will always find it.” The truth of finding my worth inside my own heart and life is a profound but difficult one especially when I’ve allowed my worth to be dictated by anything/one on the outside–when I’ve listened and internalized those shitty comments from people who are speaking from their own pain. Thank You Brenne’ for showing what “standing” looks like and that it’s ok to not allow yourself to be moved. Love love you both!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Beautiful, Sherry! Your worth IS in your heart and I’m so glad Brené’s words of wisdom are helping you see that. <3

  88. Brenda Busuulwa

    Wow. I just fell in love with this woman and one of the things that hut me the most was BRAVING to define trust because for a while now people have been breaking my trust and I’ve been having a hard time putting it in words but this just described it perfectly. At the same time I have wanted to speak out on certain issues but have been afraid of saying something wrong and I’m glad she talked on how we need to do it anyway because it matters.

  89. Nola

    Amazing , moving interview! So much so I botched my first attempt to comment. Will revisit this again as there was way to much to integrate in one listening. This comes at a time for me when standing alone is a considerable challenge emotionally as it involves what I call “competing good”.Both being equal. Now I realize this is manifesting a walk in the wilderness for me today. This situation expands rehumanizing to include our living world, animals, environment, in a way as to be non species specific. It is comforting to have all this good company as I bushwack through the wild.

  90. It really hit me when Brene mentioned that trust is broken when you share about others to connect with your boss. I have kept my boss’s confidences in the vault for years but I have been guilty of connecting by sharing what I think they might want to know about others. Makes me feel dirty now. It hurts. And also, the social injustice conversation about opting out. Makes me feel cowardly by staying quiet in my privileged white situation. Very humbling and very impactful. I will definitely get the book and read more about it. Thanks for the shot to the heart. You are both lovely. Thanks, Cheryl

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Awareness and acknowledgment are the first steps to change. We appreciate you and are so glad you’re open and receptive to this important conversation! <3

  91. Lisa De Nicola

    What a great conversation!! Omg, what was NOT impactful in this interview? Honestly, it was all important and for Brene to be putting herself out there – showing up, being in the arena as she says, is something to be so very proud of and so inspiring. For me, the part about not negotiating who you are stands out the most. I think this is so relatable on so many levels. You can negotiate a contract, but I’m not going to negotiate myself! That will stay with me. Thank you for sharing!

  92. Chelsea Reimers

    Brene’s nuggets of wisdom, I found very valuable and I wrote them down.
    It was helpful to recognize the behaviors that build versus hurt relationships such as shaming and dehumanizing. I have been quilty of shaming and recognize that it is a form of trespassing against that person. It not only hurts the person you shamed as well as you, as Brene’ pointed out.
    A million acts of kindness and consciousness can change a lot of relationships in just 24
    hours. The people, I think they were nicknamed the cajun navy, who came out to help
    the stranded Texan’s after Hurricane Harvey comes to mind as a recent example.
    For me the Bible has been my guide and Hebrews 12: 14-15 relate, ” Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.” Brene’ gave tools using the word Braving which are concrete and observable behaviors to practice as acts of kindness and behaviors for living in peace.
    Thank you Marie for offering this valuable interview.
    Chelsea Reimers

  93. All of Brené’s books are a game changer and this one is no different. I never go on a road trip without her audio books loaded on my phone. I’ve listened to them over and over again. Can’t wait to pick up my copy. Loved this video Marie, definitely going in my top 5.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s so wonderful to hear, David! Brené has such powerful wisdom to share and we’re really happy you’re soaking it up.

  94. Another favourite Marie! You are a fabulous interviewer and I’m grateful for this interview. It is so timely for the phase of work I’m entering right now. I pre-ordered the book and can’t wait to dive into the wilderness in many ways. Love and gratitude for all you do, Sox

  95. Lisa

    I do not negotiate myself. But I can a topic or contract etc. just did this a few weeks ago, set a serious boundary and it was tested. But I held fast and it was hard. When I looked deeper I saw the other persons piece was about them and their needs and not my well being. It became an easier boundary to hold to. When others question my boundary and make it about something outside my values it’s now about something else, about them, their stuff. It’s that maybe I have a boundary, a value, a need and it throws them. They can’t or are not ready to meet that unselfishly. You won’t be allowed inside my boundary/fenceline while insisting you want to park all up on my vegetable garden. The place that gives me sustenance. Nope, my gate and fence will hold firm. But I’ll sit on my fence or come outside to meet you.

  96. Cheryl McLaughlin

    Hats off to @Brene Brown and @Marie Forleo! This is a game-changer…a life-changer, and one of the most powerful and necessary conversations I’ve heard in a long time.
    This is such a difficult, polarizing era filled with a dangerous version of tribalism that can so easily dehumanize the “other,” and lose the soul of your “self.” And we hurt each other. I saw this big time in my work with gang kids during the IRA war in Ireland/Scotland.
    What you’ve given us is honest conversation and a road map that people desperately need and are looking for: how can we engage and respond with curiosity, compassion, boundaries and accountability during these difficult conversations with people we often know and love who are in a dehumanizing mode? How can we catch it within ourselves? It’s absolutely vital that we engage in conversation that can change “the conversation,” and that we have the courage to stay engaged and say, “that’s not funny,” and to bring the conversation down to our humanity, to how we are impacting each other one-on-one, to develop the understanding that helps us to be kind to one another. Am sharing the video widely.

  97. First of all, Marie and Brené, your authenticity and commitment to living out your life/soul purpose inspires and empowers me, so thank you! I would like to comment on something and would value your input. For decades, whenever I hear the words “non-judgmental” and “unconditional love” I cringe. I believe that from the unconscious neurological level right on up to the conscious level, if you’re a human being on planet earth, it is impossible to not judge (either negatively, apathetically or positively) and not put conditions on love. From our built in negativity bias to how we are taught to view ourselves and the world, from our invisible self-talk to our visible actions, there is judgment and conditions. What I do believe is this. Jack Canfield teaches Dr. Robert Resnick’s formula E+R=O, meaning event plus our response equals the outcome. This is similar to Dr. Viktor Frankl’s quote, “Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” I believe that through intentional personal/spiritual/professional development and training we can learn to become aware of the space and be mindful of what comes up there. Whether the stimulus/event be something that triggers self- judgment and negative (or positive) self-talk or pushes a button affecting our reaction to a family member or something happening in the greater world, there is an opportunity to modify and be more mindful of our responses, to ourselves and others. This is not easy and it’s not about “getting it perfect” or “getting it right”, but it is about increasing our self-awareness and realizing we do have some choices/options about our responses. It doesn’t mean that we’re not true to ourselves in our responses. It means that we have a life-long learning opportunity to discover what’s driving the bus of our reactions/responses. There are opportunities to process the limiting beliefs or heal the wounds or just learn the life lessons that needs to be learned. Anyway, I’m realizing that I may have just written my next blog post : ) but I would love to hear your “responses”. Thanks again for sharing your gifts with the world!

    • There may be such a thing as “unconditional love’ (although I find it hard to accept, too), but it doesn’t necessarily mean “unconditional acceptance.” I could love someone with all my heart, but would no longer accept them in my life if they committed some hideous crime. I don’t have children, but I’m guessing that a mother’s love for her children would be the most “unconditional” kind. (I realize, sadly, that not all mothers actually love their children. I’m referring to those mothers who do.)

      • Hi, Anita! Thanks for your reply! You may be interested in my reply below to Mandy from Team Forleo. : )

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      You bring up a good point! Our responses and reactions to things really can determine the outcome in a major way. Marie has an episode where she talks more about this: I think you’ll like what she has to say! 🙂

      • Thanks, Mandy! Yes, I do remember watching that one. (Tues morning is always my MarieTV time : ) ) The point I was trying to make is that there really is no such thing as being completely non-judgmental or offering love without there being some conditions attached. However, through being more conscious of our responses/reactions (being more self-aware) we can be less judgmental and more accepting and loving, of others and ourselves. Thanks for taking time to reply! All the Best! : )

  98. So much clarity received from this interview. This is one of the interviews that I will re-watch many times to attempt to fully absorb all the amazing nuggets of wisdom it contains. So grateful for both of you and what and how you contribute to teaching us how to be better flawed humans. Thanks you is a pale response but its meant deeply.

  99. Eva

    This is probably my favorite interview. I found it soul-soothing and heart-embracing. I wish everyone could take the time to watch it and think about all that was said. You too left me with a big smile on my face and spirit. Thank you so much for helping us believe and for reminding me that I´m on the right track. Much love from Uruguay!

  100. I have long been a devotee of Brene and am just learning about Marie….. I am so glad both of these souls are in my life now as my journey takes me on a brand new business venture.
    One of my favorite parts: “cussing & praying”……because these are two of my favorite things.
    Thanks Brene & Marie for having the courage to be who you are- it makes our paths easier to negotiate when we see you walk ahead of us.

  101. Laura

    Thank you for having these conversations Marie and Brené. I admire you guys so much. I think I need this book ASAP. I am the effing wilderness! Amen to that!

  102. This conversation filled me with so much love. My biggest takeaway was not negotiating who I am. Sometimes I feel pulled to do things the ways others want me to do them, but I have to remember that doing that disconnects me from my soul and I won’t do that anymore. Thank you both for this amazing conversation!!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Right on, Laura! That’s a huge takeaway! 🙂

  103. Priscilla

    I was ecstatic to wake up and see Marie and Brene together in my inbox! It’s interesting when you start following you intuition and dig into things that really matter, you seem to come full circle. I have been watching Marie TV for years, and just recently discovered Brene. How awesome to see two bright and inspiring people unite. This is such an awesome and illuminating interview!

    I am familiar with and love the concept of BRAVING – I have started using it to really figure out what’s going on with trust issues in my closest relationship. Another big takeaway for me from this conversation was that shaming has nothing to do with social justice. I think it’s so important (and difficult!) to keep that in mind when we are fighting for something we believe in. Do it with kindness and bravery, not just by unloading fear and anger.

    Thank you so much for this. “You are the wilderness!” That will stay with me, and I definitely want to read this book! Lots of love.

  104. I idolize both of you! Excellent interview, thank you.

  105. YES! You are the F)*# wilderness!! And thank you for being that!! It allows us to be the wilderness too! Im going through my own wilderness right now and boy does it feel good to know you are out there across the ocean doing your think! Because ONLY you can do what you were created to do and THANK GOD for that honey.

    Loved it


  106. What a magical combination of women! I really enjoyed watching the discussion. I plan to do my part towards a million acts of kindness! Effective immediately 🙂

    xoxo LL

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Yay, Laura! Every act of kindness counts! 🙂

  107. Saralee Etter

    I loved this whole conversation! The Maya Angelou quote at the beginning reminded me of my favorite Maya Angelou quote — She was the keynote speaker at my college graduation, and (with respect to the rights of women) she mentioned an African proverb that went something like, “It’s not whether a person can steal the chief’s hunting horn, but whether they can blow it.” This confused and irritated me for years. Decades, really. But eventually I came to the notion that it’s about the legitimate use of power — you can’t steal power and authority; it’s given to you by the common consent of other people. So if the horn is blown to call the people together, then the people have to believe you’re legitimately entitled to blow that horn. It was a struggle to come to that understanding but now I think that’s really true.
    The idea that we must be ourselves and not negotiate who we are with others is also great, because that is the underlying theme of the novel I’m writing — so thanks for putting those words together for me so I can zero in on what I really want to say.
    And I loved the ending quote: I am the wilderness. Can’t wait to get this book.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      How amazing that Maya was the keynote speaker at your graduation! What an incredible opportunity. And it’s clear her words really stuck with you. <3

  108. I can’t wait to read this book. I recently read Gifts of Imperfection again. It is HARD to know what to do, but I really liked what you said about sticking to your values and speaking up when you have something to contribute. I read a lot of news as part of my job (and for fun, too) and I often get sucked into the comments, which make me want to cry for the ignorance and hatefulness that some people share publicly. And many people seem to think that what they’re doing (shaming, usually) is the right thing. I can’t tell you how many comments I’ve read that say, “they should be publicly shamed.”
    Here are some other interesting things this video brought up for me that I’d love to hear other people’s thoughts on:
    – How to stop people from generalizing, name-calling, etc. Labels are so ingrained in our culture and advertising and I’m totally guilty for using them too.
    – Watching someone play video games, where the enemy or ‘other’ is never as skilled or as ‘human’ as the protagonist. I pointed this out to someone yesterday and they said they wouldn’t want to play a game where the enemy was equal. Whoah. Am I overthinking that or is that a form of dehumanization?
    – Pointing out people are far-right or far-left and using those terms as nuanced insults. I see this in the media a lot.
    – The benefit of being a black sheep. I’m one and I think it helped me build tolerance for other people early because I wanted to be understood and accepted. But I liked what Marie and Brené said in the video about being careful about finding validation for not being accepted or enough.
    – Lastly, because this is the space I work in, how can we all show up better on social media? Previously, my response was to just not show up at all…but do we have a responsibility to speak up online as well (where warranted, obviously ignore trolls) and write a comment when we see something we think requires further discussion, instead of ignoring it?

    • On the video games: I doubt that most gamers would agree that they don’t want the enemy to be “equal” to them. They do want to know that there’s really a way for them to win. Most games have levels, so the better you get, the tougher the enemy gets.

      For myself, I prefer games where I’m challenged to compete against myself, to better my score or reach the next level. But even when I’m just playing “for fun” I’m trying to “win” in some way – even if it’s just solitaire!

  109. Watching you two at the end, with tears & fierce awareness and love for each other, reminds me why I’m so fucking grateful to be part of your tribes! In my opinion, the solutions, the path, the shift in consciousness we need, are directly related to the Divine Feminine.

    We are the fucking wilderness!


  110. So divinely timed…. omg. Tears. The end re: self abandonment … the Warrior in me has come out full force this year in regards to this. No more giving myself away to make others comfortable starting in my own household. Brene Brown xoxo. Getting the book !

  111. I thank you both for this beautiful, touching, and personally validating interview.
    We underestimate how much of ourselves we loose by seeking the approval of others.
    Ahhh, breathe deep, and ALLOW self, to be… self.
    With Appreciation & Joy
    Lori Rae

  112. WOW! I love you both and this video was so powerful for me. The dehumanizing part of your talk was deep, profound and powerful on so many levels. I plan to listen to this again!

    I can’t even tell you how timely and appropriate this message was. Just a few days ago, I wrote in my weekly newsletter about ‘being authentic’, and I shared my story of my love for cursing. As a light worker, energy practitioner and Spiritual teacher, this came as a shock to some one my students and clients, because I had always hidden this side of me, thinking it was inappropriate. I put it out there (without apology) and it feels really good for people to finally see me as I am. I loved when you said you ‘pray and curse’. It doesn’t have to be one or the other- damn it!

    I plan to share this on my weekly newsletter and FB page. Brene you are a bucket of soulful wisdom and you have a tremendous gift in how you speak and deliver it to others. I see you, I feel you and I get you. Thank you for being authentic, real and YOU.

    And thank you Marie for being you and sharing all of these wonderful videos packed full of delicious gifts along the way. They have changed my life in a profound way and I have so much gratitude.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      AMAZING, Jill! It definitely took some bravery to put yourself out there like that and I’m so happy your students and clients love you for who you are. Cheers to praying and cursing! 🙂

  113. Hillary Solomon

    I seriously loved everything about this video. The dehumanizing made a real impact on me. The definition of privilege made me really think. The validation to be my authentic self at the end also helped. Thank you Marie and Brené for continuing to help us evolve. I feel better prepared to stand my ground and re-humanize today. I love you and thank you!

  114. Wow! This was amazing and so inspiring! Can’t wait to read her book. I loved the discussion about dehumanization-so very powerful and eye-opening. My favorite-I am the wilderness! Yes I am! Sending love to all.

  115. That was a totally inspired interview and mirrors my thoughts around, if a majority of us could step back and analyze our language and thoughts and clean out the baggage, the world would be a better place.

  116. As a social worker and therapist, I wanted to shout out “Hell, yeah!” when Brene talked about the “therapist uniform.”

    My big challenge is that as a therapist with an MSW, I am working to establish my practice right out of school rather “gain experience” working for social service agencies that I have little enthusiasm for, who might try to push me away from my core values, and who might put me in a position as an agent of “the system” rather than helping someone heal. As such, I am driving a taxi while building my business and I enjoy that job. I also have been grow my hair long (as a man) rather than try to look “professional” because I feel more like myself with long hair.

    Heck, maybe after hearing what Brene was saying about the “therapist uniform,” maybe I’ll become the “t-shirt therapist.”

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s awesome, Haven! The uniqueness you bring to your practice will attract the right people to you. I truly believe everyone can benefit from therapy, so there should be a wide range of therapists to address the needs of a wide range of people. We’ll be rooting for you as you’re building your practice!

  117. Thank you both for such an inspiring talk today. So much to think about. I would not typically share Marie TV with my husband but today I will because there are so many points you covered that is affecting our relationship around politics and the way we often communicate with our friends. As a matter of fact, a bunch of us who sail together meet each Sunday morning for breakfast and share stories this Sunday I think this could be the story to discuss. I’m excited. This is very powerful, thank you with love and gratitude, marty

  118. Karrie Bond

    Absolutely loved the point about being authentic to yourself, not changing how you dress, speak, or present yourself just to align with someone else’s vision. I purchased a business 2 years ago and the previous owner has always done her best to give me guidance, but I have struggled to do things her way because we are completely opposite. Trying to make her proud has resulted thus far in hesitation, hurt, and heartache, because no matter how hard I try, I know she will always find fault comparing me to how she did things, and I think in some ways, knowing that I seek her approval has led her to treat me in ways she would never have treated anyone else. That point was so clear to me that I need to just stop worrying about what she did, stop questioning if she will approve, and just go for it my own way. I will never be like her, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be like me and be just as successful. It was also a good reminder to hear the BRAVING acronym. This relationship has been mired in overstepping of boundaries on her part, but also lack of setting them on my part, so we are equally to blame when communication goes south (not to mention our completely opposite applications of Generosity…I always give the benefit of the doubt while she always jumps to conclusions). A great conversation and so glad to see two powerhouse females get together to discuss important issues.

  119. So much to say
    Every word where powerful
    But I’m so ok don’t shame, don’t use word that hurt because your hurt yourself, yes it can be satisfy for two seconds because you spit your anger out, but you stay with your wounds and there is no healing in it for no one

    To finish even my mother tongue is french, I’m gonna grab a copy of the book, I feel that I need it now in my path.

    Thank you for the light in you Brené and Marie

  120. I LOVED LOVED LOVED this episode. I picked up so many nuggets, that I’m pretty sure I’m gonna need to watch it again to get them all. A couple of thoughts:
    1. I’m really focused on two things, Better Work + Better Lives. I love to teach workshops on how to improve company culture and when I talk about diversity and inclusion, I ALWAYS saw avoid collusive behavior… participating with others, knowingly or unknowingly to reinforce stereotypic behaviors. I truly believe this is one of the hardest things to remember, but the thing that makes all the difference… especially at work! It’s so much easier than what people think to just say, “Hey! Not cool!” It takes .5 seconds of bravery.
    2. Because I do so much work with companies, I have also been asked to show up as they expect… I remember once, a company sent me a copy of their dress code and said they wanted me to dress accordingly… What I found was it was hard for Me to show up costumed as someone else, or who they thought I should be. So, I love that lesson, and you reinforcing that message.
    3. One thing that I find interesting is this idea of speaking out. I tend to be a person that needs to process information before I can put together words and ideas. Then it seems too late to say something on X subject because we’ve moved on to Y subject. This isn’t out of perfection (though perfectionism shows up in other ways in my life), it more out of choosing to be super intentional and thoughtful about what I say and how can I say it in a way that people might actually hear, instead of dismissing as another angry voice. I also tend to have LOTS of conversations off-line with people about topics that are hot-button issues, because I like to look into people’s eyes and have them look into mine as a human. I think there is a time to speak out loud, and a time to speak out low. If my voice gets lost because I’m trying to make another facebook post about something that people have already read 100 post on, am I contributing to the conversation as much as have 5 face-to-face in-depth, heart-to-heart conversations with someone? This is something I struggle with often, as people think I’m aloof to the world or don’t care enough to speak up. I care a whole lot, that’s exactly why I’m not saying the first thing that comes into my head… I hope that all makes sense.

    Love love love you both! 🙂

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Great question, Colene! Speaking out can manifest in many different ways. If you find that you’re more effective talking to people one-on-one and having more intimate conversations, there’s nothing wrong with that. And it may even lead to a deeper conversation than posting on social media. It all depends on what you feel you’re best at and what feels right to you. Speaking out is speaking out, whether it’s done one-on-one or broadcast online. Thanks for being a part of this important conversation!

    • I really appreciate what you wrote about waiting to write and feeling like it’s “too late.” I was feeling that way tonight after watching the episode and wanting to say something. I felt a rush to write and then took breath knowing I could wait and think some more first.

  121. I adored this interview, the whole effin thing, so where do I start?
    I LOVED that she explained that White Privilege is worrying that I won’t say it right/do it right, and be criticised for my imperfection, and then I rationalise that I (and my people) are ok anyway, so I don’t say anything.
    Speak it out. Get it wrong. Own it, Move on. Stand up, speak out. Rinse, repeat.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Right on, Tara! I love what you said about getting it wrong and owning it and moving on. That’s SO important. <3

  122. Patricia Braga - Brazil - SP

    Just loved! Im from Brazil…. enjoying so much your content Marie.. and Brene! Oh Gosh…
    This is my time. Im ready to start my journey.
    Patricia Braga

  123. Alyson Prince

    Hell yes!! I have been waiting for this interview! In fact, a few weeks ago I searched Brene Brown on your website wondering if you had already done it. In lieu of finding anything, I logged onto Youtube and binged on Brene, but I was still thinking, “I wanna see Marie interview her….”
    I fist pumped and let out a whoop when I saw this in my inbox. Et voilà! Two of my favorite ladies in the same space. Thank you! Thank you!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      The universe heard your wish and granted it! We’re thrilled Brené was able to come on the show.

  124. It really is difficult to find the words……..tears, frustration, joy, hope….all arising in one sitting. I am now trying to find my feet to continue on with my day. It’s all good. With love and hugs to both of you and all of you.


  125. Thank you so much, I can’t wait to read the book. I love, Move In!
    Listen to understand rather than to respond with judgement.

  126. Hi Lovelies!
    This interview sinks in sooo deeply today. Right at the beginning the impulse to comment. Especially about the part
    I’m a B-School Alum 2017, and I’m only now ready to go launch my blog and open up my cash register. THANK GOD!!! I’m SOOOOO EXCITED!!! But more than anything I feel really aligned and able to do this with full integrity. And the truth is, it hasn’t been fun, fast and easy. Well actually, it’s been fun, but not fast or easy. I’ve been working on this business for over a year before I felt ready to charge.
    I’m a writing coach, so I couldn’t take people’s money unless I had self-published for myself, (not published in magazines because that’s not my market!) and helped others self-publish through a beta test. And the thing is, I felt like such a dork sometimes, because everybody’s in such a rush, and I just wanted to test things out first.
    Today I had a big epiphany. The fact is, I have a family, I’m a breadwinner and technically I do feel that we really need cash. But my new definition of abundance is: putting karma (integrity) before money. That’s it for me.
    For me (specifically), in this specific instance, karma meant going slow. Not running after money out of fear but taking my time and doing it right. So yeah, I did that. And I got teased along the way (by myself more than anybody) but now I’m so happy and proud. Who cares how long it takes. I’ve made it to this next step.
    Okay, admittedly, I haven’t finished the interview yet. But I couldn’t repress the urge to jump in. I’m going to finish listening now.

  127. MCC

    There is a great song Beautiful World – In the Beginning
    “Peace comes within the souls of “hu”man”s” when they realize their oneness with the universe.”

    Hope the following words will do justice to the deep reflection…

    We are at home together, yet we stand (on our own feet) alone.
    We are made of stars, yet we look alike. I feel me, but I feel you too.
    When you are in pain, and you try to hide it… look in the mirror… You will recognize it in me too…
    Embrace the weakness in you and recognize it in me… You are one with the universe, and you are one as I am me…
    What’s a men without (W/O) a woman, whats a WOman without a man… We are ONE with the universe!
    Listen to your inner struggle, and hear me beyond my appearance… Then you’ll look AT ME, through me…

    • OMG! “When you are in pain, and you try to hide it…look in the mirror… You will [then be able to] recognize it in me, too…”

      I’d never thought of a mirror as a tool for developing empathy – it seems so counter-intuitive – but this is awesome. Thank you.

  128. Dawn

    So much gratitude. This was absolutely needed and spot on. So many take aways! What resonated most was the idea of courage over comfort – choosing what’s right over what’s fun, fast and easy. I try to instill this in my girls. That some decisions and choices will be really hard, but do them any way, they make you strong, brave, resilient. Also the idea that ‘people are hard to hate close in.’ Opening dialogs IS the way. I agree with you Brené, 1,000%! Thank you Marie for this wonderful interview. Brené thoughts are with you and your Houston community.

  129. Yithza Davelaar

    Wow!!!! What a relief. I AM THE WILDERNESS! Thank you so much for this.

  130. Mike

    Thanks Marie! I have not heard of Brene Brown (because I’ve had my head in the sand) and I am checking out ALL of her work and will do so with her new book too. Thank you for waking me up yet again. I never heard of Gabrielle Bernstein before watching your interview with her either, now a HUGE fan. (again, head….sand…)

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Hooray! We’re so thrilled to hear that, Mike. We love introducing our community to insightful people with life-altering wisdom. So glad you like Brené!

  131. Faye

    Brené Brown is my favorite author… she has impacted my life in so many waysand I knew this marie tv episdoe would be epic. I immediately paused the program and ordered my copy of her new book online.
    I had to pause the video several times to take notes. One section was in the definition of B.R.A.V.I.N.G. One really resonated with me above all else and that was the vault and I recognize there have been times that I have not truly honored the vault myself and justified it as I shared out of hurt and pain, but it still was not mine to share. Brené hit it on the head when she said it was to connect with someone else, but also hit it on the head when she spoke of reverse confidentiality. It offered hard, soulful, intense food for thought. Thank you so much, there were many other learnings and I cannot wait to read the book.

  132. Jennifer Schwartz

    I took so many notes! comments! quotes! Loved every minute of the video.
    I run a Women’s Healing Group here in LA and we have read Brene’s book,
    The Gifts of Imperfection, Brave the Wilderness is the next. Thank you, Thank you for your incredible insight, it’s the best work to share with my group. Can’t wait!!!

    Loving you.

  133. Vickey Wachtel

    And here I thought I was alone, because I have felt so different in my way of thinking and have pissed so many off with my so called “attitude”. It was pure pleasure watching you two and hearing my own words come out of someone else’s mouth. Thank you!

  134. Tnt

    I just finished Brown’s book Rising strong two days ago.
    And today I was sitting at my desk, making hard decisions that will probably change my professional trajectory and personal life in a profound way. I had this feeling of complete loneliness after a “breaking point” – either it is a breakup of a relationships, a dream or something you have been working on and putting yourself in for years.
    And in this moment of complete loneliness I checked my e-mails and began to watch this episode.
    I could not finish it in one take, because it was so intense and so important for me and my situation at the moment. And it got me in tears. Good kind of tears.
    Yes, I have everything I need to survive, even more – to thrive in the wilderness I am just stepping into.
    Thank you, thank you, thank you.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      It’s so cool you’ve already finished the book, TNT! It sounds like you’re on the precipice of something big. No matter what you decide, we’ll be sending lots of love your way for the hard decisions ahead and we hope everything goes beautifully.

  135. Cynthia Hutson

    Hello, my biggest takeaway from the conversation was Brene’s definition of privilege. For those not directly impacted by the current climate in America, it may be easy to ignore what is happening. For those not impacted in worrying whether or not your children will come home alive or how they are treated and perceived in the world on a daily basis, can be problematic for those of us who have these legitimate concerns and feelings. Those not directly impacted have an opportunity and I believe an obligation to speak out and to come against the blatant injustices that are prevailing these days. Additionally, I related to the part in Marie and Brene’s conversation regarding social media comments. I see the current trend of folks not really listening, yet rather having an either “you’re with us” or “against us” mindset. I see very little conversation on social media where a true or genuine attempt is made to be empathetic or to seek real understanding. Living as a non-Caucasian person in America is indescribable and those not living it have much to learn and as fellow Americans could be more willing to seek understanding and to actively participate in changing our national conversations.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Absolutely, Cynthia. We need your voice and I hope everyone who hears it will listen with open hearts and open minds. <3

  136. First of all, thank you both for being such inspiring and generous creatures!
    I´ll be sharing this video with everyone who´ll listen. There are so many important topics in your conversation, but the one that hit me the most, was the part about dehumanization. The media is really doing its best to pull us all into that mind frame, and I love the reminder of how it goes both ways. We can all do better, but I´ll start with me… Looking forward to reading the book!
    Embracing my wilderness a little more today thanks to you guys 🙂
    Much love,

  137. Such a great episode…I am so inspired. My favorite ideas:

    (1) “Don’t betray yourself to fit in with others.”
    (2) The definition of white privilege is opting out of speaking up to play it safe.
    I am going into the WILD!

  138. Charlotte Marcy

    Thank you both of you, Marie and Brené, for your continuous inspiration and for shaking things up the right and “he-artful” way!

  139. Valerie J Runyan

    Hey Marie-
    Loved! Loved! Loved! your talk with Brene Brown she is one of my favorite speakers ever, ever since her Ted talk on “Vulnerability” I was on of those million who viewed it and her Oprah Soul Session talk I loved her absolute fucking realness! (and yours) I agree with you both wholeheartedly, “I am the fucking wilderness and it is very free!” Keep doing the this awesome work you are doing with “Marie TV” I love it!

  140. Stunning & deeply inspiring: thank you x

  141. The best Marie TV ever!!! The feeling of being alone has plagued me along with the shitty self-worth. I’ve been working on that over the last few years and I know I’m worthy AF. After watching this I can now stand in that feeling instead of the limiting belief that no one will want to hear what I have to say. I’ve released a lot of shit over the last year that has propelled me to where I am today, and it still isn’t exactly where I want to be, which is fine because I know I’m going where I’m meant to go. I’m going in the right direction for me, finally. The best realization for me…I am the fucking wilderness!!! Thank you Marie (and all that hair?) and Brene for standing tall for others. You’re both beautiful lighthouses. xo

  142. Thank you so much for this wonderful interview! It was profound, honest, heartfelt and full of wisdom. I will bookmark this and come back to it again and again. I have a full day of all sorts of work up to my neck, but I pushed everything aside and took the time to listen to the video in all its full glory and I’m so glad I did. It provides a lot of food for thought…

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      We’re so glad you made time for this, Azadeh! We appreciate you and are honored you’re taking part in this vital conversation.

  143. Thanks, Marie and Brene’ for an incredible conversation. We all need to hear this message and take it to heart.

  144. Such a wonderful episode with my two favorite mentors. So much information here which I feel is so needed today. Kindness and consciousness is the only way to go! Thank you ladies for your very important work.

  145. This was so powerful, I’m going to have to rewatch it multiple times for all the concepts to truly sink in. Thank you Brené and Marie for cracking open the conversation!

  146. This resonated with me on so many levels. As an ex-pat I struggle with belonging where I live. As an artist I struggle with being authentic. As a 55 year-old woman I am changing and fear the disapproval and rejection that change may bring. But deep down, I know the truth of everything Brene said. Hearing that truth was so affirming. Thank you both for such an important conversation.

  147. I loved this interview and the both of you are extraordinary people! Thank you for posting this. I was very taken by the BRAVE acronym and may try to use that somehow with our students and staff.
    Thank you for your wisdom!

  148. Christina

    I’ve been having those difficult conversations with my family the past 4 months and so when I saw Brene’s new book coming I preordered it. I’m in the wilderness and have been feeling more uncertainty and anxiety than ever before in my 42 years. Thank you, Marie, for talking to her about the book and about your own experiences. These feelings of mine are so scary at times that I doubt myself and my voice. Hearing from you and Brene and others on how to handle these feelings, is a major factor in my life. I need you and others to continue to guide. I’m a shy, reserved person and would much rather stay in my comfort zone, but as I realized a few months ago, I don’t have that privilege anymore. The self doubt is what likes to consume me. For the first time in my life I’ve been having trouble sleeping. I tell myself that by feeling all these uncomfortable feelings, that means I’m alive. And I’d rather be alive than dead inside.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      So proud of you, Christina! It’s not easy speaking out, but it’s so necessary and worth it. You’re doing great!

  149. Megan R.

    This was my first introduction to Brene Brown and wow…. y’all, my soul has been feeling so icky lately with so much going on … never-ending wars, hatred spewing from mouths around dinner tables and fingertips across the interwebs, and just this overall feeling of unrest. It’s rendered me silent. I don’t want to enter the conversation with my own voice both out of fear from getting it wrong or acting a fool in reaction to any responses I may receive. The punk-rock teenager version of myself is shaking her head wondering where my voice went. This video really touched on my struggle. My heart hurts with some of the terrible things my knee-jerk mental reaction goes in to thinking in response to some of the images I’m seeing or words I’m reading. I want to speak from my heart but my brain gets in the way and wants to go directly to shaming. It will take practice to enact the guidance Brene has offered here but amazing to feel like I finally have somewhere to start. Thanks, Marie!

  150. *wiping away tears*
    Oh my. What brought this wonderful talk so close to my soul was that it reminded me so much of my strong, compassionate mother. She is the fucking wilderness. I am the fucking wilderness. This is raw and real, and there’s not a lot of that going on right now. Thanks so much Marie and Brene!

  151. This was one of my favorite episodes – likely because it seems that in many areas of my life I am hearing the same message.
    Be yourself. If they don’t like you – tough shit for them.
    As a singer – when I perform I was always wanting my audience to like me… tried to sing in a way that was “correct” so it sounded good – so people liked me. As a yoga teacher.. hoping that I created the perfect series of asana – so that people liked me. Last night I sang with emotion – not just control – showed up and just gave it all.
    Today.. I did a class that is not usually mine to teach and from a workshop this past weekend, came into the room with an open playful heart, full of swagger and self confidence and enough humility and humbleness that kept it real for me and everyone… but no apologies, no excuses just a great honest class where I had fun and hoped everyone liked the class… but unconcerned that they liked me 🙂
    This episode was like the validation icecream….atop the cake. I will be definitely buying the book and sending this along to my young lady daughters (who by the way like to cuss as much as Marie!) hugs…. have a great day… Namaste… Alana

  152. I’ve commented a few times before, but this interview brought out so much that I needed to hear that I’ve also been replying to other comments.

    Hardly the most important thought, but the one that struck me most in the moment was when Brene talked about how she no longer agrees to do things that are inauthentic (dressing up or changing her language). She used to, but now realizes that it’s not necessary.

    The idea that even Brene Brown once thought she had to follow someone else’s “rules” tells me that the path to authenticity is an evolutionary process, and there’s no shame in having tried to conform in the past. It’s what I decide to do in the future that’s important!

    • Nancy

      I should have read this one before I posted! LOL…I am in total accord with you, Anita Pirkle!

  153. Natalie

    This conversation is SO NEEDED in our world today. I am one of those who feels the “ick” going on and around in the world. I am guilty at times of putting my head in the sand and saying “someone else will speak up.” But, no, I have to be brave and stand up. It’s not only for me but for my 4 yr old. Thank you for being there Marie and Brene, and showing me it is not only okay, but necessary, to be a part of the wilderness.

  154. Wow, I am on a journey through the wilderness, I am about to be baptized. This is a new part of my life that feels so right. And if someone had suggested this to me a year ago I would have thought WHAT? I am a artist, animal communicator and I am going back into that my way. Not with the political correctness and being afraid to offend because someone does not agree with me. The wilderness for me is finding myself and connecting to the whole as my self. These words were so powerful, Thank you. And I say we all go for understanding and explaining, it is something I am working at. It’s true you don’t get the charge and you don’t get the negative kickback. As always Holy Moly and Thank you. Love and Light
    Christine Kowal and The Animals

  155. Authenticity!!!! God bless you, Brene, for making this stab at integrity so poignant, and it sure didn’t hurt that I am at a crossroad of forgive vs. not with someone who has wrenched a monsoon of vitriolic response from me that I feel shameful about admitting. This amazing Universe knows how to guide us…and thankfully, people like you are there as signposts.
    And yes, faith and cursing are at the heart of the most painful situations I have ever experienced.
    Oh…I can’t pick out one especially brilliant concept that you brought out…because the entire video was just loaded with them!
    Thank you!

  156. Dear Marie and Renee,
    I love you both and follow your teachings and share them with whoever pops in my mind while I’m watching. This episode was incredible and I took away so much from it. One thing that I found reassuring and heartwarming was what you said about not moving people outside of our moral circle because it’ll make it easier for us to hurt them. This hit home for me so much, but it also hurt me SO much! Here is why, and I hope that you will try to understand my point of view. The reason why we shouldn’t call humans pigs or dogs, is not because pigs or dogs are inferior to us, but because it reinforces human supremacy which is a huge fallacy. We know today that all animals regardless of their species, human or nonhuman, are sentient beings and that they value their lives, they love their family, they fight to protect their family, they want to live free, safe and happy. Other animals are different from us, but are certainly not less, and in their capacity to suffer, to feel joy, love, pain, fear, terror, etc. they are our equals. No one is superior or inferior to another regardless of their species or their “type” of intelligence. Animal rights is a social justice issue too and I hope to see the day that we stop exploiting nonhumans for the crime of being different. Thank you for hearing me out! If you are interested in the topic of animal rights, I would love to talk to you! Much love to you both!!!

    • Maryam Kamali

      * Brene

  157. I am a long-time practitioner of diversity, inclusion and bias related issues. When I first heard Brene’s talk on Charlottesville, whom I absolutely adore for her work and the heart she shows her readers, I was struck by how whiteness and privilege would play out in the conversation. I hoped it wouldn’t be “well-meaning” because the fact of the matter is POCs and other often marginalized groups need allies, ready to brave the wild with us on issues of equity, inclusion and humanity. She showed up for the discomfort. I still didn’t buy the book, but after this interview, I just did.

    Allies, people willing to use their voice to call out dehumanization and denigration are vital to changing the world. I have always known this and Brene drives it home.
    Thank you for standing shoulder to shoulder with us who have devoted and continue to devote our life’s work to making our world more peaceful and just. And for using your very public and loud voice to draw attention to these issues.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      This is a really good reminder, Danielle. Being a good ally takes conscious listening and consistent effort and I hope everyone who sees this video will feel inspired to stand up for what’s right. <3

  158. Lira


    This book is not available in the Philippines 🙁

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Oh no! I’m sorry to hear that, Lira. Although I’m not super familiar with the publishing process, I know it’s common for a book to be published in one country first, then to trickle out to other countries over time. Hopefully, it’ll be available in the Philippines soon!

  159. Lesley Edwards

    I fucking love this interview. Everything about it. I have been mad shaming all the bs thats been happening in the US. And now I get that I can be angry, appalled even and I don’t have to talk down the perpetrators of hate. Instead I’m bringing love and curiosity, and of course the courage. Thank you deeply Marie & Brene xoxo

  160. What can I say – everything. We are the fuckin’ wilderness!

  161. Ellen Scott

    Splendid, Marie, and Brene,
    I appreciate each one of you. You are helping me integrate my bottom line and my authentic way to move forward after 10 years of classes/study/ and social justice work.
    Yup, faith and courage, are my values. You two magnificent and imperfect women increase my ability to hold my courage more steadily. Thanks for your example.

  162. For me, “It really is going to take a million acts of kindness and consciousness to change this” was a really big take away. I run a non-profit that focuses on environmental education and implementation, and I’ve struggled for years trying to figure out the best strategy to change people’s concepts of planetary kindness and consciousness. I’ve betrayed myself in every which way trying to get the information out there; being upset, scolding, being overly positive, giving so so much of myself that I was in bed for two weeks. It crushed my soul when people didn’t get it, and when they did I soared to the moon and beyond. All that up and down was too much and wasn’t real for me. I kept trying to feed people the information the best way I thought they could receive it instead of sharing it from the place that I am connected to it. Now, I know who I am and what I truly trust, believe and connect with. I share stories, images, concepts and benefits from a space of honesty and balance. When it comes to eco topics it can get negative really fast so finding the balance is what I focus on for me. I find it is nicer to share the positives than to jam the negatives down somebodies throat. (What an image). I also loved that she ends the book speaking about your internal wilderness. In school there was one semester where we dissected the meaning of wilderness and the wild. There was so much fear behind it. The actual wilderness was a place of dark creatures stalking you, ready to eat you. The dictionary defines the wilderness as uncultivated, inhospitable and a position of disfavor. Wow! The funny thing is the wilderness in nature and inside yourself it stunning and a place to grow and thrive! I’m the fucking wilderness too! That untamed place in my soul is what motivates me and inspires me to keep moving forward and growing. Another ass kicking episode. Thank you!!!!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      You’re doing such important work in the world, Stephanie! I know it’s not always easy and it can be frustrating when people don’t get it. But even if someone doesn’t get it at the time, if you can plant that seed of caring and curiosity about the environment, they might get it days, weeks, months, or years later. You may never know the full scope of the impact you’re making, but it’s there. <3

  163. So incredible! Thank you, Marie! I absolutely love Brene’s work and her willingness to show up and call us to our Higher selves. The timing is always perfect. That last bit with her reading the quote about us BE-ING the Wilderness…wow, brought me to tears. Keep on, keepin’ on ladies! Thank you for shining BRIGHT!

  164. How does someone arrive at the notion that who they are is “someone that cuzzes?” I do not cuz, because most cuz words either bring up images of bodily waste, not something I want to think about, or denigrate sex, equating sex to bad stuff, which is not something I want to do.

  165. I so enjoyed this interview and had the sweetest laugh at the end!!
    Great spark of light in the wilderness you two are!!

  166. Hi Marie, Brené, and Marie’s team,
    I often come back to Brené Ted talk about vulnerability to know I’m not wrong, I live my truth, and it’s freaking hard, and it’s normal. I’m glad you 2 give a voice for people to let their soul be fully alive.
    I went into a depression in 2008. The movie Black Swann is a good illustration of what I went through.
    In 2014 I stepped on the practice taught but zen master Thich Nhat Hanh. It’s all about mindfulness, and there’s a particular practice called Dharma sharing. First time I attended it, was in October 2014. We are a group and sit in circle. It’s about practicing loving speech and deep listening. There’re specific rules, the one who speaks use “I” and not “they, he, we…”, doesn’t talk about a book, about the teaching, the theory, but talks about his experience, from his heart. The others just hold the space, they don’t cut off, if judgment or the will to give advice arises, they come back to their breath. After a person talked, we can share our own experience if we felt we had a similar experience.
    When the sharing is over, we don’t go to a person to comment his sharing, but we can ask “are you opened to talk about more about what you shared?”.
    And for me, the 1st dharma sharing was very opening, tears flowed. And it’s been like this since then. Every dharma sharing, my heart, my inner child feel safe, and inside my body, it’s like an earthquake. My body expresses himself so intensely so that my mind can’t resist it. And I bow in, tears and words just flow naturally, feelings buried come to life, souvenirs too. It’s an exhausting and scary thing I do almost every week since then. But I keep doing it because it brings freedom.
    3 people told to shut down and take pills, because they think it brings anxiety in others, because they think I struggle too much. And every times, this leads me in so much anger, panic, despair. Last time I understood, when people tell me to shut up, my inner child is so angry to be silent, to be ignored. And I feel it’s not ok to be silent anymore so people can feel good, so people cannot feel the discomfort of their own suffering.
    I know if I’m not open to what I feel, to what I know deep inside, it’s like being a zombie, and that’s not ok anymore. Even if I’m wrong, I need to let me be with my pleasant and unpleasant sides. I need to be alive, to honor the life in me.

    Do I think those people should have not advise me to shut down when I’m healing, and when I know when I share it helps others to be less scared of their own suffering ? No. It hurts me a lot to hear those 3 persons telling me to shut down. But it woke me up even more to my inner child, and how much she needs to be alive even if she holds a lot of suffering, it showed me the way to be for her : just here, by her side, not matter how much and how intense is her suffering. Those people gave me the opportunity to stand stronger for myself.
    And even though they told me to shut down while healing me and others, I don’t think they shouldn’t have talked to me, because this is also the opportunity to share, so they can understand me even more and themselves too.
    And I know when I can’t talk, when people don’t allow me to share even if I disagree and am wrong, I feel isolated, and that just reinforces my suffering, my shame, my anger, my lack of trust… And people who can’t stand Brené, Marie, me while we are bringing healing, those people, they just suffer so much that they can’t stand their own suffering, so they tell people who actually wake them up to their own suffering, to shut up, so the wake up will end, so they won’t need to take care and face what they feel, know what they know.
    I felt anger when Brené says those people should not talk, because they actually need to be heard, they need help. People who suffer and are isolated because we don’t let them talk, their suffering increases. We need communication, deep listening especially when the suffering is big, so we can bring clarity, undo misperceptions. It’s so dangerous when people who suffer are isolated, and in extreme cases, it leads to extreme violence.
    I’m for the freedom to express ourselves.
    Carl Jung says : “The unfaced and unfelt parts of our psyche are the source of all neurosis and suffering”.
    Thich Nhat Hanh says : “No mud no lotus”, “Be beautiful Be yourself”.

  167. Zita

    Marie, you are a miracle! You are so authentic and also beautiful, it is a true gift to see this video this interview is priceless! For me the most interesting parts were the vault and not shaming other people but instead get in a meaningful respectful debate… Brene Brown is unbelievable truly. But you Marie I have never seen you shining like here, and soooo authentic!!!! Truly a miracle, you made my day! I love You!

  168. This. Made my day. Seeing you two strong, powerful, vulnerable, courageous, articulate, creative, wild women having this most important conversation. I have read every Brene book and heard every interview, every TED talk, I feel like I am absorbing these insights and learnings into my heart anew every time I hear them. How timely that this book come out now when we need it most- when it’s so easy to de-humanize one another, to feel like our side (whichever one we stand on) is the higher ground, we don’t know how to listen to one another anymore, sometimes it doesn’t feel like we’re even speaking the same language. I wrote down many aha moments here and the one that stuck out was “Opting out of speaking out because we may get criticized is the definition of privilege.” Because as a white Jewish woman, I often feel like when I have spoken out I have been shut down or told to let other minorities speak for themselves or organize instead, so I do it imperfectly and then I stop trying because I’m afraid of getting it wrong or offending someone. Instead of realizing that I need to speak out because I have the privilege of being able to use my voice, and that I won’t let my imperfection, or fear move me away from having the hard conversations because it is too important (especially at this time) not to. Thank you for this. For braving the wild and showing us the way and reminding us that we are the wilderness. That our worthiness and enoughness is carried inside our own hearts and is not up for negotiation or debate. Big love to you both!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      This is fantastic, Myrite! If you’re concerned about people telling you to let marginalized communities speak for themselves when you speak out, one option might be to use your voice to lift up the voices of others. That’s still a great way to speak out, as well as elevate voices that aren’t as readily listened to. That could also work if you’re feeling called to speak out but aren’t sure what to say.

  169. Melanie Walzer

    My favorite part: “I know who I am, I am clear about that and I am not going to negotiate that with you. I will negotiate a contract with you, I will negotiate maybe even a topic with you, but I am not going to negotiate who I am with you! Because then I may fit in for you but I am no longer belong to myself.” – this brought me to tears, so I have to dig in a ‘bit more into it and understand why I reacted so strongly.
    Another great one was from Marie: ” Negativity is toxic” oh hell….yes!!
    Thank you for sharing

  170. Terri

    So glad to hear Brene’ affirm the importance of how to be true to yourself…NO more listening to what’s appropriate to wear or not wear…NO more being told when I can pray…NO more being told not to cuss…NO more trying to be like everyone but myself. Fifty plus years of doing so is #[email protected]&%*! long enough.

  171. Julie

    Loved, loved, loved this interview. Love Brene so much and have read all of her books–can’t wait to see her this Thursday night live and read this one! Also love Marie so much! LOTS of love in the house today:). Thank you Marie for what you do every day and the gift of you that you bring to the world. Also a “still-in-progress” B-Schooler and it is SO rich and real and valuable.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      So cool that you’re going to see Brené live!

      You’re doing GREAT with B-School. Although it can sometimes feel like building a business is a super slow process and it’ll take forever to get there, remember that you’re miles ahead of everyone who doesn’t want to try. You got this! 🙂

  172. Katla

    “I am the fucking wilderness”
    That last sentence hit me the hardest and gave me chills in the most beautiful way. Thank you so much for sharing this video with us. <3

  173. Barbara Spikes

    This is SO wonderful. Thank you doing this–both of you. I really get being authentic from this conversation, especially the end. Barbara

  174. Beth Workman

    This is just what I needed to hear today. For years, people I have worked with have told me I need to change and be something they want me to be. I tried. I had to abandon some of my values and it chipped away at my integrity. It didn’t feel good. After many years of people telling me that I was wrong and couldn’t do things my way, I have finally learned to stand alone, if need be, and to stand up for what I believe. I want to open up conversations and present food for thought. We don’t all have to be the same- there is room for diversity and differing opinions. Neither has to be all right or all wrong. We just need to listen to each other and consider ideas different from our own. I am starting my own company and all the old fears of people not liking what I say or do are creeping in again. Thanks for the ideas you presented and for showing me the strength and courage to continue to stand alone and have a voice. I have a unique perspective and voice and I need to share it with others.

  175. Came full circle today, Marie, with the first time I watched you and signed up for B-School; “Opting out of speaking out because we may get criticized is the definition of privelege” will be the manifesto for my mentorship (business!?) in book-writing, publishing and marketing survivor stories — if you can believe it, this is the first time I’ve listened to Brene. 87% finished B-School, and have four online businesses to show for it; the wilderness is where it’s at. Much, much love and gratitude. – Kristen

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Awesome, Kristen! That’s such a great manifesto and it’s really cool to hear you have 4 businesses. Go you!

  176. Wow! This was an amazing interview. I’m justing sitting here with tears in my eyes. This was just so powerful.
    Thank you so much!

  177. Natalia

    Amazing conversation! “I know about who I am and I’m not going to negotiate it with you” – that feels so right. Also it was touching to see your wonderful bonding and “mind-reading” at the end. Those moments are magical. Going to audible to search for this book ?

  178. What a dynamite conversation with two of the most impactful thought leaders of our time! Thank you Marie and Brené for braving the wilderness and inviting us to all do the same. If everyone listened to this conversation our world would undoubtedly be a kinder more compassionate place.

  179. Magnificent and so needed right now, in our tattered and divided world. We need to see beyond left & right, blue & red and re-enchant the world into the purple wild tribe that we are. LOVE is the key – and love is fierce. Looking at our own limitations first and then loving more and more and more until we melt away all us & then conversations to bring forth a new world beyond our wildest dreams. Rave on Marie & Bene!

  180. This is my favorite episode so far. I’ve been having such a hard time with everything going on with the world. And you nailed it on the head – it’s all the name calling. I can’t wait to read this book Brene’ Also, I can see you why you two are such good friends.
    Thank You

  181. Janelle

    Thank you for this again Marie! This episode, as do all your other vids/interviews come just at the right moment in my life. Definitely getting a Brene Brown’s book ? and running into BRAVING!

  182. Janelle

    Thank you for this again Marie! This episode, as do all your other vids/interviews come just at the right moment in my life. Definitely getting a Brene Brown’s book ? and tuning into BRAVING!

  183. Holy cow! This episode was so profound in so many ways and spoke deep to my heart. I’ve never commented on an episode before but I felt compelled to say thank you today. From “Don’t walk through the world looking for evidence that you don’t belong” to “It really is going to take a million acts of kindness and consciousness to change this”, I found this episode to be compelling and empowering. Issues of kindness and humanization are at the center of the work I accidentally found myself engaged in and it is incredibly empowering to hear someone of Brené’s stature proclaiming these truths.

    I conduct the Tacoma Refugee Choir which began as a simple community choir to connect with those who might desire friendship and understanding. However, the current political environment has highlighted the necessity of these connections at a level I didn’t anticipate when we started and has given me an outlet to exchange my natural rage for kindness and compassion as we listen and create. As we sing together, we recognize our common humanity and realize that we have more in common than we have different. It’s been a beautiful and life-changing experience to make music with people from such diverse backgrounds. Though we don’t always agree with one another, we find that dissonances can be a form of harmony when we focus on working together and building upon how our ideas can coordinate into something greater.

    At the same time, this work also caused me to witness more dehumanizing language and “jokes” about deporting people of color that take a stand different than popular opinion. I appreciated how Brené said that “If you have to hurt other people, you aren’t funny” and her call to not opt out because we may get criticized. Learning to respond in a way that doesn’t dehumanize the offender is a tricky balancing act but “shame doesn’t drive positive behavior.”

    Thank you for the jolt of empowerment from this episode to make my community a kinder, better place. Book is ordered and I’m excited to explore these ideas further.

  184. You are two of my favourite people – I’ve learned so much from both of you. Can’t wait to get me copy of Berne’s book! I often feel alone, like I’m on an islands, living to the beat of my own drum. I am really working hard to be OK with that and being free to voice my opinions and beliefs in positive way, of course. Wilderness sounds like heaven!

  185. I love listening to Brene’s voice. She is a voice of reason in a crazy world!

  186. Valerie

    I love this interview so much!!

  187. Pam Tate

    Hi All…
    Wow! This is a game changer.
    I felt the world shift just by watching this.
    When you hear out loud what is going on inside your head then you know you are on the right track.
    Lets do this people… let’s heal the world and make it a better place ?

  188. Wow. That whole idea of belonging to yourself first was so powerful to me. I come from a family ravaged by addiction and mental illness. I’ve had to walk away from the vast majority of them in order to save myself. Like both Marie and Brené said, you meet more people like you out there in the wilderness, but the journey to get there can be very lonely and isolating. The idea of belonging to myself is incredibly comforting. It immediately takes me out of any kind of pity party that can sometimes be very easy to fall into. It’s the truth I could never see when I was suffocated by family messages undermining my self-worth and criticizing any effort I made to show up fully with all my gifts. As much as I would have loved a functional and supportive family, the lack of it doesn’t have to mean as much as I used to think it did. I don’t belong to them. Never did. With or without their love and approval, I was always meant to be for myself. And I can’t be supremely useful to anybody else any other way.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much for being open and sharing this, Madeleine. It sounds like you’ve had to make some tough decisions to protect yourself and I’m really sorry you had to go through that. I’m glad you found your tribe in the wilderness and that you’re thriving out there. Sending love! <3

  189. Rosemary Breehl

    I agree, Marie … this is your best one ever and there have been so many I’ve loved! My favorite parts were the conversation about de-humanizing and re-humanizing and the understanding of what that exactly means. I am a true believer that we can change the world and this is a great way to begin a conversation with those who have a different viewpoint with understanding and respectI. I always want to ask that question: “Will you please help me understand how you feel?”

    I LOVED this conversation, oh and the other part I loved was ‘being yourself’. Especially being able to drop the “F” bomb because it does fit my personality and is who I am. Thank you both for your generosity and honesty. I will get the book ASAP.

    Rosemary Breehl

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Love that, Rosemary! I can think of so many situations where asking someone to help you understand how they feel is a great door opener and healthy conversation starter. Thanks for sharing such a good tip!

  190. Junifer

    Hi Marie and Team,

    Thank you Marie and your hard working Team, this is one of my favourite interviews with Dr Brene Brown. The quote from Maya does make sense it takes an enormous amount of courage to stand alone. And when Dr Brene says, “Our worth and our belonging are not negotiated with other people.” That is what I will be carrying everyday.
    Awesome work Marie and Team, thank you.

  191. LOVED this. When actions or words of another are so maddening and difficult to make sense of, it’s challenging not to tumble into returning dehumanizing behavior. This, holding people accountable, and all of the topics covered here are so important for us all to hear – especially now. Thank you for sharing this conversation with us, Marie, (and Brené)!

  192. Glad to walk away with something I can actually use. Just had this conversation with a team member about trust – wish I had seen this first.

  193. I´m so grateful for this! I ended up in tears too. The world is a bit better after this.

  194. Probably one of my favorite Marie TV. shows ever. So relevant to so many things going on in my own life and those around the world.
    I love everything Brene had to say. And I have watched her TED talk even before I knew about her, on vunerability.
    Thanks so much, def a tissue one!.

    Hearts and Hugs ladies.


  195. Julie

    This resonated with me on so many levels and is exactly what I needed to hear. I recently did some genealogical searches for my father/family whom I had never known. He passed when I was in high school but he had never been a part of my life. I discovered that I was “not who I thought I was” and it really rocked by medicare card carrying world. It made me much more aware of prejudices and the dehumanization that Brene referred to. I also have been guilty of the “privileged” attitude of not taking a stand when I should. Loved it…and I will be concentrating on “BRAVING”.

  196. Thank you for this. This was amazing. I will be watching more episodes of Marie TV now. I love that we can be the fucking wilderness, and that is okay. And I love that I can’t change who I am to fit in with you because then I no longer belong to me.

  197. I’ve watched this twice now, picked up more. Imagine when I see it again? ha! Thank you, this is incredible schooling…

  198. Ali

    This was such an exceptional conversation Marie.

    Brene’s books helped me through a devastating divorce years ago and it’s because of her work that I truly feel I’ve been able to over come perfectionism and grow to believe at my core that I am enough, regardless of what other people say.

    As a b-school grad, I always hoped one day you and Brene would collaborate. I found myself feeling an immense amount of joy watching this conversation unfold today. You are two of the most heart-centered women who always bring immense value to the world in all that you do, and I feel honored that I get to be alive during a time where I get to personally witness such incredible teachers and soulful leaders. Thank you, for all that you do.

    I found myself pausing to write down quotes every few minutes. Here are a few of my favorites (it’s hard to choose, this convo was GOLD):

    “Don’t walk through the world looking for evidence that you don’t belong, because you will always find it. Don’t walk through the world looking for evidence that you’re not enough, because you’ll always find it.”

    This was everythinggggggggg. It really is true, the lens from which we choose to see the world through will always reveal that which we ask it to.

    “Our worth and our belonging are not negotiated by other people, we carry those inside of our hearts.” <— Can I get an AMEN? This is a daily reminder I live by. That no one holds the key to our "enough-ness" except for us. To give that key away is to always be at the mercy of others, and that can be a very disheartening place to live.

    Thank you for all of this Marie. My favorite MarieTV by far <3

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      This is beautiful, Ali. I’m really glad Brené’s work resonates so deeply with you and that your wish of seeing her on MarieTV was fulfilled. YAY! <3

  199. I learned so much about myself through this. I never understood the trust idea as it related to the VAULT and that was eyeopening for me. Sad, but very eyeopening and I can change. The section on dehumanizing was so real and I understand so much more. The idea on conflict transformation hit me like a ton of bricks. I have been trying to have a conversation and told I don’t get it, I don’t understand, and that I shouldn’t be asking the questions. I know I am not going to get it perfectly too, and opting out is not an option. Great interview. I love you guys! Would love to share this video and make it viral!

  200. Susan

    The acronym of Braving is brilliant, as all of Brene’s work is; I have an additional thought about “G”-generosity. The definition she used is a desire to assume the best, rather than jumping to conclusions, of the intent of actions or words from others. It sounds like Grace to me, generosity of spirit for sure, but the definition reminds me more of Grace. If we hold grace in our hearts, we allow pause before reaction, so there’s room for taking in what’s really going on in any situation. We give grace because we are constantly given grace by our maker. Anyway, her work is powerful, great interview Maria, as always.

  201. Cathy Ckark

    Marie & Brene
    Thankyou so much Braving the Wildness….. not the written book but I mean for the life traveled. I have ordered the book and cannot wait to read more, especially after watching this short, powerful and timely… wow wow wow.
    Nothing is wasted and you have put a language to all that I have process and confirmed that where I am and where I am going is right.
    I am thankfully and excited…. Yes yes yes.
    May God continue to bless you and use you even more. For such a time as this… making my life count because nothing is wasted.
    Peace & Love
    Cathy Clark xx

  202. Sam

    I have not watched Marie TV in so long and happened to see this in my FB feed. WOW, is all I can say – reminded me of why I started watching this. Only recently discovered Brene as well. Thank you for putting this together and letting me know about this book ❤️

  203. Before I was even 10 minutes in I was blown away. I loved how concrete the the BRAVING acronym was and how quickly, even just while listening, I could do a quick evaluation of the roles each part had in my life. Super insightful!

    I am also really grateful for the conversation on politics, social justice, and privilege. Especially how Brené came right out there and said that opting out of speaking out is a privilege–YES!! This is something that so many of us try to shirk around and avoid, so this clarity was a welcome breath of fresh air. This is exactly what those of us in marginalized communities can’t do. We have to speak up for the sake of our rights, even our lives. So glad this was mentioned. For “imperfect” activism (as all is) this was quite good!

    I’ve never been an outwardly critical person, but I still gained a lot of insight from the part on focusing on how our contribution should be greater than the criticism we have. And, in that, I’m sure constructive criticism is included (like the invitations for a deeper discussion and new viewpoint). This had me reflecting on my own self-criticism and internalized ways of critiquing the world, too.

    I am wholeheartedly in agreement about being aware of the energy we put out into the world. We are powerful beings, each and every one of us, and our every word and action can influence the lives of those around us. It’s on us to take responsibility for that. To fully own our own feelings and reactions while simultaneously holding others accountable for their own.

    The quote about a million acts of kindness gave me goosebumps. Wow. The beautiful part about it is that it’s doable. We can do this, we just need to commit to it.

  204. Wow! What an incredible interview with Brené Brown. You two together are simply beautiful and inspiring! So much that was discussed rang true to me and what had the greatest impact on me today was the fact that we do not need to negotiate our worth and our belonging with anyone. I have many days I feel strong, however also have those days where I criticize myself for not being enough, not doing enough etc… This point is encouraging me to tap in deep in my heart every morning and connect with my authentic powerful self and not let the outside world shake what I know I am.

  205. I left Quebec twenty-five years ago to find out who this Monique was. I did not become wild because I was already wild, even though I actually lived in the tropical jungle of Costa Rica:-). I was not already in the “box” where most of the people around me were living at the time of my departure. As Renée has said so well, my greatest achievement living in Costa Rica was that of discovering that my only belonging I owed was to my Self. I came back to Quebec less than a month ago and being “legally wild”, the time to fly my mane to the wind in full freedom came. Thank you both, Marie and Renée, two women I admire and love.

  206. Jennifer

    ” Don’t go into the world looking for evidence that you don’t belong…that you’re not enough”. I loved that quote among others. Thank you both for such a warm, impactful and soulful conversation. I take it into my heart

  207. Belinda

    I am getting the book Brave the Wilderness after watching this awesome conversation and I could not agree more with Brene’. Marie you both are amazing women!

  208. Baybee if you aint spent some part of your life-like Hagar in the wilderness-than keep living! Because it is through being forsaken by everyone and left to die that you will awaken and reclaim your own humanity! Shame is the catalyst for folks to be forsaken. Accountability on the other hands makes all involve responsive…it’s like when you have to put your children on restriction ,in order for it to work and be effective you have to be on restriction also. And that’s hard work!

  209. I just had to come here and share my thoughts.
    First of all Marie, thank you so much for introducing me to so many amazing human beings. God bless you. I am from Nigeria, just thought I should say that, lol. Brene, I love your work. You literally break down my thoughts for me. Anytime I come across your work I’m like “I know right”. Thank you and God bless.
    This discussion has been on my mind for a while now. To be specific, the de-humanising and re-humanising concepts. Its like the society expects you to choose a side and condemn the other but then again its all in the mind. Personally, I try to keep my opinions to myself but I think I should start speaking out more.
    The way I understand this concept is to be careful when you’re fighting a demon so you don’t turn into it. And sadly that’s what happens most of the time. People neutralise their hatred and call it morals. I exist in a very controversial situation, by that I mean that my views are so parallel to my daily encounter and even my loved ones tell me I’m not being real, which hurts me.
    I love the way Brene thinks and I’ll love to add something to the solution you suggested Marie. This is the theory I use to encourage people to be more open to discussing what they don’t believe in or understand; “acknowledge that people have their opinions because of reasons best known to them and it makes perfect sense to them, same way yours makes sense to you. So don’t try to understand an act rather respect that it was for a reason, mostly a good intention just like yours.”
    We don’t have many immigrants but the diversity in my country is unbelievable. But for some reason, that theory has a way of cushioning the ground and opening up a meaningful conversation.

  210. I deeply respect the courage it takes to stand alone and embrace the wilderness… I reach for this on a daily basis. I know I am free to be me… and I, too, feel the vulnerability of this. Brene, I truly appreciated everything you shared, most poignantly, not looking for ‘not belonging because we’ll find it everywhere’… this was me until some major shifts took place. I only shared recently with a blogging friend that ‘home is everywhere… I may look like the gypsy wanderer that plays musical houses, yet it’s the heart of who I am. I accept self and know I belong.’ Thank you Marie and Brene ?

  211. This is one of my favorite episodes!! Every bit of it hit me. I am purchasing the book first thing tomorrow.
    I was really struck when you talked about privilege- how staying quiet is the meaning of it. I feel so strongly about so many issues, but I’m constantly staying quiet to not upset anyone or offend anyone (at least- that’s what I tell myself I’m doing it for). But you are so right! It is only because I am privileged and it doesn’t affect me that I can stay quiet.
    Thank you both for your wisdom and honesty, and for giving me a much needed kick in the butt.

  212. Kathy

    I AM THE WILDERNESS !!! I love Brene’ Brown I have read and or listened to all of her books over the last month other than the newest which I will be purchasing soon.

    She has taught me so much about shame, courage , faith, vulnerability and connection . I hope one day to meet this amazing woman !!

    Marie this is the most raw I’ve seen you !! Love it !! ❤️

  213. Oops! Just want to apologize. I wrote Renée when it is Brené. This reminds me of my brother, René, who is struggling. Is Brené’s book translated into French?

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really good question, Monique! I think at the moment since it just came out, it’s only in English, though it’s very possible it’ll be translated to French at some point. I’m not sure when that might be, but definitely keep an eye out! We’d love for you to be able to read the book in your preferred language.

  214. Lynne

    Wonderful….especially the very end. I am proud to be in the wilderness with you 🙂

  215. Suzanne

    I really loved this talk. I especially appreciated her comment about the privileged not speaking out because a matter doesn’t affect them. As many people, I used to be in the “privileged” circle, but now I am not. I always believed in being authentic and true to myself because privileged people can do that: they have money in the bank. But as the saying goes, beggars cannot be choosers. Since losing my “privilege”, I have had to many times compromise myself in order to keep a job or keep a roof over my head. I didn’t like it, it went against my values. But I had to in order to survive. People who experience discrimination often need to “conform” outwardly to survive. It’s not right, but it is the privileged who make the rules. I didn’t understand this until I lost my “privileged” status. That’s why it is so important for privileged people to speak out against injustice: no one changes things for unprivileged people speaking out for themselves. It’s the privileged who have the time and resources to speak out and ultimately who other privileged people will listen to.

  216. DEAR Marie and Brene:
    I facilitate a truly wonderful program called “The Living Spiritual Elders Project.” where seekers from all faith traditions come together to explore and discuss the common ideas in the wisdom teachings of those traditions and how they apply to our own lives. We do this in large part by watching films and interviews with people who exemplify integrity and authenticity. This interview just shot to the top of my list of film interviews for this year! Thank you, thank you!

    I also have a creative streak a mile wide and a mile deep, and make wearable artisan jewelry for women who know who they are and aren’t afraid to show themselves to the world. I’d like to offer each of you an opportunity to pick something from my collections as a gift for all you give to empower and lift up others. If you need an uplift yourselves, go to and take a look, then let me know what you’d like. It’s yours. with love and appreciation.

    Bless you, bless you.


    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Woohoo! We hope the folks in your Living Spiritual Elders Project love this interview too. It sounds like you’re sharing a lot of wisdom and having many meaningful conversations in the group.

      We’re also so grateful for your kindness and generosity! If you’ll write to us at infoATmarieforleoDOTcom we’d love to send you a message of gratitude.

  217. Kris McCrady

    Amazing interview! I love the idea of not negotiating who you are! Thank you!…Time to walk deeper into the wilderness!:)

  218. Dee

    Thanks Marie,
    BRAVE – – so awesome. Yes, this was soo inspirational. The most impactful for me is the confirmation to be willing to be stand alone and be who I am . I call it “honoring my (your) journey.”

  219. Kim

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have felt alone and like a loner most of my life for many reasons. I am an only child from a small family, I was raised to be “independent” and I realized how to use my intuition at a very young age. I am weeks from my 50th birthday and finally embracing and excepting who I am. I have lived in the wilderness all of my life and I know now I have a tribe in the wild!

    • anita brown

      I am all those things and only two years older
      I am your spirit ‘sister’ Kim
      Bless your journey
      and bravery

  220. Wow! That interview was so moving. You both touched on topics that are so relevant in my life right now—I assume for a lot of us. The concept of dehumanization was an eye opener and was a powerful message to show the danger of shaming and putting others down. The concept of shaming seems so pronounced in our country and it saddens me greatly.
    There were 2 statements Brene made that I absolutely loved and I want to emulate:
    “…at the end of my life I want to say that I contributed more than I criticized” and
    “Take responsibility for the energy you put out in the world.”
    I recently launched a new brand, OM Revolution, to inspire people to “be the change they wish to see in the world.” I want to inspire compassionate action that brings us closer together and addresses the division we are seeing in our county. Brene and you have the same mindset and are so inspiring for me to stay focused on my mission too.
    Thank you so much for this wonderful interview. You both are beautiful leaders and we are lucky to have you.

  221. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Beautiful, raw and encouraging. Needed this today. Back in love with the wild.

  222. Markie

    I loved this conversation! I’m sick with an ugly cold, lying in bed with my dog, and this video is the first thing in days to make me feel good. I so appreciate what Brene said about the damage caused by dehumanizing language. I am a big believer in words as energy. We all have a strong response to “I love you” and to “I hate you”. Switching out one little word in that sentence changes everything. Every word you say matters.

    And I think the fact that people become verbally abusive on social media only perfectly illustrates the very point you’re trying to make in that people don’t feel connected, or part of something greater than just themselves. Happy people don’t attack others, unhappy people do. So even though the behavior can’t be condoned, it’s easy to see that the behavior comes from an unhappy person with issues. And that’s when we can be a little nonjudgmental, and while holding them accountable, understand that they must’ve suffered an awful lot of wounding to strike out at, and try to hurt, total strangers for the mere reason of having a different opinion. You don’t have to try to plead your case, their behavior proves the point that we all need connection.

    Be authentically you, together. Thank you for this awesome video.

  223. I am a fellow SW and Money and Mindset Coach and a devotee of Brene’s. If I had a religion this woman would be my pastor! 🙂 Each and every word is a teaching moment and she gives us such permission to be real, honest, and leaders for healing. I wrote down 12 quotes in the first 15 mins. Thank you, Thank you

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Wow, that’s awesome, Nicole!! 🙂

  224. T. L. Parks

    I feel as if I’m on the brink of coming out of hiding…and when Brené made the comment about not responding to people who are not showing up and hiding behind their anonymous masks, it really hit me in the gut!
    For so long, I haven’t shown up, and let me tell you…whatever abuse that may come from actually being in the arena, it must be a cakewalk compared to the crook in my neck, body and soul–that has come from crouching behind the tree of voicelessness. Because of this video conversation between Marie and Brené, I will be removing my flower icon picture from my profile and my name will no longer be …1, 2, 3. I’m ready! Thank you.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Yay, T.L.! It’s brave of you to put yourself out there, so we’re sending lots of love and courage your way.

  225. What a beautiful episode – I cried many times. Thank you for sharing this and for sharing your wildness!

  226. Jen

    Love you both! So much goodness! Can’t wait to read Brene’s book!

  227. Great episode with true grit and emotion. Standing alone. I am the wilderness.

  228. Angie Jakes

    I am the wilderness ! Thank you for this video .

  229. Andrea

    I am thrilled that you both talked about dehumanization not being ok on any side. I have heard so many conversations where in the same sentence people are dehumanizing the very people they have felt dehumanized by!! it’s never ok , and we all have to do the hard work it takes to see our human connection to each other even if we disagree. See our commonality before we see differences.
    This was a great talk about the ideas in Brene’s book. Thank you for sharing it.

  230. T. L. Parks

    I feel as if I’m on the brink of coming out of hiding…and when Brené made the comment about not responding to people who are not showing up and hiding behind their anonymous masks, it really hit me in the gut!
    For so long, I haven’t shown up, and let me tell you…whatever abuse that may come from actually being in the arena, it must be a cakewalk compared to the crook in my neck, body and soul–that has come from crouching behind the tree of voicelessness. Because of this video conversation between Marie and Brené, I will be removing my flower icon picture from my profile and my name will no longer be …1, 2, 3. I’m ready! Thank you.

    • anita brown

      you go girl!! yes…brave

  231. What had the most impact for me:
    Rethinking how I speak about others, even POTUS.
    The motivation to step out and express more me. I live in a beautiful area with incredible, generous people, but I don’t fit in. So I quiet myself in many ways. This conversation (and I’m sure Brene’s book) has really got me thinking about pushing myself to the next level of authenticity.
    Thanks Marie and Brene’
    xo, Shannon Elhart

  232. Taylor Prince

    Wow! That is such an amazing conversation and one that’s not being had enough in the world. Most impactful moment was the de-humanizing/re-humanizing conversation. Thank you for sharing that wisdom. I hope more people will accept the invitation to recognize and fully comprehend that “united we stand; divided we fall.” No one wins if someone loses!

  233. Kathleen Klukas

    Such a timely and important conversation. Can I get permission I share this on my Facebook page and You Tube channel, and have a way to direct people to the the full interview.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      We’d love for you to share a link to the episode, Kathleen! (We ask that you not re-upload the video to YouTube, though link sharing is always fine.) We appreciate you sharing this important wisdom and we hope it inspires all who see it.

  234. Shared widely as Brene is one of the Wisdom teachers we’ve been praying for!

  235. When Brene’ talked about dehumanization, she talked about how no one has the high ground. But when talking about Nazis and white supremacists… how do we fight their intolerance? We can’t be a tolerant society by tolerating intolerance. They aren’t just dudes in khakis with tiki torches. Many of these people are armed and want people like me dead or out of “their” country. I just don’t believe casual conversations, online or in person, is going to change the minds of these kinds of people. Shame is what kept their prejudices secret in the past. Shame is what had the KKK wearing hoods. And war is what stopped Nazi Germany. With Trump refusing to properly condemn their behaviors and giving them the confidence, their hatefulness and violence is out. They don’t even care that their identities are known and all over the internet. They have been empowered.
    I’d be interested to hear what Marie or Brene’ had to say about the paradox of intolerance.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      This is a really good question, Leah. Brené did a Facebook Live about Charlottesville awhile back and she answered a lot of questions in the comments too. She covers a lot of ground that may better answer your question:

  236. Dee

    I am head to toe covered in Love and Gratitude for this interview. Brené Brown you epitomise the essence of my own heart and your words give me the strength that today I needed to keep doing ‘me!’ I am strong like you, and it takes a lot to cop a slap out in the wilderness and keep walking, but I would rather be red from slaps then sorry for not living my truth. Because of my willingness to Brave The Wilderness in the past, I have the most beautiful friends in life who lift me up and support me, and who really love me for all of me. Though I know in my heart I’ve been playing way too small lately and you and Marie today have reminded me what its all about. BIGGEST distinction for me is about how we rationalise ourselves out of doing something.. I rationalise everyday that I look too shit to do another Facebook live, that I don’t have the right equipment, backdrop, or set up, that my website is not ready, though my network constantly ask where I’ve gone.. .. well, watch this space!! Thank you, Marie, and Brené, from the bottom of my heart! <3 <3

    • Nelly Wang

      It is 12:30am in the morning in China and I couldn’t sleep because I clearly needed to hear my phone buzz from the email notification to hear this interview now!!!!!!!!!!!! Soul sisters unite!!!! What an incredibly authentic, powerful and inspiring dialogue you shared together in perfect, divine timing for me right now as I prepare to launch my personal brand which conveys my truths! I am buzzing with the knowledge that I HAVE FOUND MY NEW TRIBE in you both and all your followers. There were so many take-aways inside for me about ‘being free’, ‘belonging’, standing alone’, ‘braving the wilderness’ and I no doubt will be processing this for days. Thank you ladies for being you and for contributing your truths so bravely to the world! I will be hunting down your book in Hong Kong on Sunday… hope they have some copies left!!

  237. Deirdre Jayko

    Holy cow. My heart is exploding. I never wanted this video to end. To me “you are the wilderness” means taking ownership of my fears. I feel empowered to be different, empowered to tackle that shame that stands between who I am now and my authentic self. Thank you.

  238. We are the fucking wilderness.
    Thank you both so much for existing and being brave and showing up and modeling how we can have hard conversations. And for showing us that being vulnerable is both the hardest and the most rewarding thing we can do. Endless love to you both. Can’t wait to read the book. x

  239. Where to begin; M plus BB is a magical combination, let’s just start there. You two women, through your own bravery and being true to yourselves have freed so many hearts. I’ve been on a long journey, one that started with a complete physical and mental crash and burn, and a complete shattering of my identity–in the last 3 months I’ve just peaked around this corner of “I’m going to be okay” and Brene’s reminder of not negotiating who we are to fit in with others hit me right through the heart. My work was, and continues to be stepping into myself and not negotiating so much! Can’t quite put into an online comment the heartfelt gratitude I have for you both, my prayer is that you can feel it. 🙂 Thank you!! ❤️

  240. Kristy

    “I may fit in for you, but I may no longer belong to myself. That is a betrayal I’m not willing to do anymore”
    Wow – that hit me..I need to spend some time working out who I am and keeping true to that, that is the only way I’m going to live my best life and find freedom.

  241. Janet Maule

    I am speechless. I ready enjoyed the interview. . I have not hear a interview that was so inspiring in a long time. I have many walk aways from the interview with you and Brene’ what insight. I remain hopeful. Thank you for sharing. I am on the correct track and I too will make a difference in the words I choose to use.

  242. Wow, that was transformational.
    Gonna buy the book. I was writing down quotes as fast as I could. I need to be braver about speaking about today’s events with friends who I know are not of the same political viewpoint as me. I fear being judged, even while I judge them.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      It’s definitely a tricky path to navigate these days. I’m so glad this episode was helpful!

  243. Hollie

    This episode has deeply impacted me … thank you so much for doing this work, both Marie and Brene. I just recently learned that I’m pregnant, and it’s bringing me to a new longing inside for fine-tuning what REALLY matters most to me, for myself and for my family, especially as I imagine bringing my baby into this world that’s so full of mixed messages. This stuff is exactly what matters–finding value from within, being able to talk about the uncomfortable stuff rather than staying safe, finding true belonging within oneself, standing up for what we know we truly are … this is what I want to pass on to my child. I see the shaming and the rage going on right now and it just breaks my heart. Every little comment that blames the “other” is just negating our humanness and our ability to open our hearts and to heal this world … thank God for women like you, having these kinds of dialogues in public places. I am beyond grateful.

  244. Stephanie

    All of the interview was helpful, love it!

  245. Loved loved loved this interview! It was the best and I hung on every word. Simply thank you!

  246. Davina Chike-Okoro

    I really love this talk, it’s filled with so much truth. It was so refreshing to watch. Some of my favourite parts were when brene said something like ” my imperfections will not push me away from the conversation because it’s too important” and the part she said don’t live life looking for reasons your not good enough.. you’ll always find it..We hold our truth and worth in our hearts!!!
    We need more Truth. We need more love . And I’m just so grateful for you ladies of courage, shining your light.
    It’s encouraging.

  247. Amy Elizabeth Dressel

    I’ve read Brene’s books and watched what I consider to be for me, life changing TED talks on vulnerability and shame. As Maya Angelou serves as the voice of reason, justice and merit for so many, Dr. Brene Brown serves as mine. She is able to cut straight through the bullshit so quickly & with such sound reason on the most difficult & uncomfortable of topics. But the whole idea of acknowledging the far too common & accepted behavior of dehumanization and taking the time to replace it with rehumanization really caught my attention. In a world where people hide behind their screens and eviscerate their neighbors, family & friends, it’s refreshing to know that people still care about how words will affect others. Her line, “if you have to be cruel to be funny, then you’re not funny” hits close to home, bc I grew up in a family in which the bigger the put down, the bigger the laugh and more attention was rewarded. Backwards and unhealthy imo, but I was in the minority. I agree, shaming others is a form of dehumanization to the recipient and the giver. It’s hard to take the time & choose the right words when you want to retaliate with a shameful response, but she’s right…..nothing good or of quality is fast or easy. Glad I found Marie Forleo, too – will be watching her now as well.

  248. You two crazies make the perfect combination of nutty perfection! I loved this interview and the thought provoking ideas presented. I am a progressive thinker and wholeheartedly embrace and share the gentle acceptance of a diverse world. With that being said… I have been married for 29 years and am the mother of four sons. My husbands thinking has not evolved as mine has (plain and simple). As a result, my boys are exposed to some polarized opinions… I know I am not alone in my struggle to expand my family’s acceptance. Soap box standing only further divides us, so I have to be very strategic and pick my battles carefully. I look for opportunities to minister that are not combative but soft. There are a lot of us blended families… Families divided between progressive acceptance and old-world diversity. It is challenging and I am trying my best to LOVE my family through the growth process. BIG LOVE to you both! Robin

    • Wise woman, Robin. To me, you are at the right place at the right time. I just wanted to congratulate you for choosing this battle. Every moment, every bit of it is worth of love. Keep up the good work!

  249. Toni Helton

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, for the poignant conversation about dehumanization and rehumanization in this MarieTV. Our culture is so desperately in need of a return to a simple respect of the humanity of the other, most especially those with which we vehemently disagree. And, Brene is 100% correct – dehumanizing others doesn’t make the other less human, it makes us less human. A critically important conversation to be having right now. Thank you!

  250. Kimberley Mulla

    Marie! Hands down my favourite interview that you’ve done. Everything you talked about resonates with me and probably what is most impactful is the part on trust. Wow, I can’t wait to read the book! Thank you so much!

  251. Thank you SO much for this timely and on point and vulnerable and real and inspiring sit down.. i teared up, i smiled a lot and i feel incredibly supported and acknowledged – inside myself! You ladies are both AWESOME – thank you for being you and thank you for sharing you <3

  252. Well-behaved women rarely make history.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Love that quote! And it’s so true. 🙂

  253. Modelle Taylor

    I don’t understand how you can discuss shame and coddling as being a sorry-ass tool and talk about being kind and generous too. If someone only had these in their tool bag and if everyone is doing the best they can, wouldn’t it be more useful to understand and explore with them, rather than laughing and ridiculing them as you have done? I’m confused.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a great question, Modelle. I think that’s exactly what Brené was talking about––recognizing each person’s inherent humanity and engaging with them in kind, empathetic, productive ways, even if they don’t agree with us or share our values. Brené talked about listening consciously and showing empathy through re-humanization, and about taking responsibility for the energy we put out into the world. If someone who only has shame and coddling in their tool bag listens openly and is receptive to adding more helpful skills to their bag, then there’s room for a beautiful exchange. Likewise, the person they’re engaging with must also approach them with empathy because these are all things we learn through living––not necessarily knowledge we were born with. I hope this helps!

  254. Ouf… it made me cry too… I’m the fucking wilderness… and I belong to it.

  255. Goldie Matthew

    “People are hard to hate close up. Move in.” Rehumanize, not dehumanize.

  256. Leigh

    I don’t really have words for all of the insights and emotions that this interview evoked and awoke in me. I have added it to my bookmark bar because I feel like I’m going to need to watch it a few more times just to take it all in. I can say that I’ve had my sense of self overturned many times in my life and always, always realized at some point that I was waiting for someone else to tell me I belonged. I watched Brene’s book appear on my kindle this morning (I pre-ordered) and can’t wait to dive in. This is resonating so very deeply with me. Thank you, Marie and Brene, for the conversation and the work that you do! I love you both.

  257. Just wow, wow, WOW!!! So many wonderful, clear and rational insights. Brene Brown has found a new follower in me (and thankyou Marie for this amazing interview). My partner and I were discussing dehumanisation just last night and how it is used so widely as a tool to divide people and rationalise war, violence, lack of compassion for those in need (eg refugees) and so much more. We were commenting on the fact that alot of people expect others to ‘agree’ with them or share their personal perspective which, in my view, simply goes against the nature of being human. And of course social media is a hotbed of negativity and dehumanisation because it is so easy to disembody our social media presence from our real selves – effectively dehumanising ourself! There were so many other things Brene said that literally brought tears to my eyes to hear them expressed so clearly and honestly. What a beautiful soul.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really good point, Michelle. People say things online that they’d never say to someone in person––almost like there’s a wall between the real human and their online persona. That goes along with what Brené said about people who don’t show their face in their profile pictures or use fake names not participating fully in the conversation, so she chooses not to engage with them.

  258. This is especially poignant to me in my life right now. I am going through that painful process of understanding, and breaking free of, how belonging to a group was ultimately more important than standing up for myself and what I value in life. This particular phrase that Brené says, “If I negotiate myself with you than I may fit in with you but I will no longer belong to myself.” How true and right and good that is! I’ve felt more myself when I laid down the rules of not negotiating who I am. It is stepping into the wildness belonging to myself and no place, all at once. Freedom! Thank you, Marie and Brené. I’m looking forward to reading this book. x

  259. Chrystene

    Damn that conversation was needed. Poignant & timely as I am living in South Korea. I am sick to death of dehumanisation and shaming, egos fuelling flames with little thought to resolution and the ripples of fear it produces.Lets cut to the chase and get to the core human issues without degradation.. Brene and Marie you are brave and commendable for speaking up, I really hope this plants some seeds and we see a shift in humanitys mindset.

  260. Lykke Junker

    Best, best, best interview I´ve watched from you so far – It moved so many things and resonates so deep within that its hard to just mention one thing really!! I think the part of not trying to fit in to make others feel safe, the (Maya quote) to dare showing up as the wilderness, and to dare standing alone in order to stay at home and in full integrity with myself, is so profound and just a perfect reminder for me from where I am at, in my life today. Thank you Marie & Brené, you are both amazing, inspiring and brave. I am me, and proud to be. Love you guys!!

  261. Thank you so much, both of you, for having this conversation. There should be a picture of the two of you in the dictionary next to the term ‘thought-leader’.
    I’m so honoured to see this. 🙂

  262. Paula Ochoa

    This is my first time in Marie Forleo’s website, also it’s the first time I hear about Brene Brown and I can’t be more grateful for this video and the topics in this conversation. What I still have in my mind from it, it’s to not allow ourselves to be the way others want us to be, just with simple examples as the one of the clothes and certain behaviours that we sometimes have to fit into a conversation or situation.
    Thank you both! I’m excited to discover so many more things through your blogs, books and videos. Happy that there are people in the world whose main intention is to make good doing what they love and believing in it. That’s what I’m going to do, I declare it! 🙂

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Welcome, Paula! We’re so glad you’re here and that Marie and Brené’s words spoke to your heart. We can’t wait to share more with you soon! 🙂

  263. Oh, damn you both! You made me cry right there at the end. *sniff*.
    I am the fucking wilderness!

  264. I am the fucking wilderness!

  265. Oh. Marie.
    Best. Ever.
    Cannot thank you enough. So much wisdom in those few minutes. It was great to hear two such strong, accomplished humans sharing that you, too, face fear when standing your ground. I’d like to add: it gets easier. When you speak your truth and witness it empower even one other person to step into and own theirs, it’s encouraging. When you see many other people inspired to speak out against injustices they’ve witnessed silently, there’s no turning back. Thank you for being you and sharing you with us.

  266. sanela

    OMG I am the wilderness.. that closing brought tears to my eyes and its so true.
    this was one of my favourite interviews and I never realised how guilty i was of dehumanising some people (Trump especially).

    Awesome interview, thanks again.

  267. Kate

    Thank you so much. One of the biggest things I’ve taken from this and can’t wait to shate it with my daughter… we should not go through life looking for evidence that we are not enough… she said to me yesterday that she hated her stomach and thought it was too fat which was heartbreaking to hear only two days after her 11th birthday. I hope this will help to shift her perspective. With so much love and thanks for the work that you do Marie. Warm regards Kate

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Oh my goodness, that’s heartbreaking. Your daughter is beautiful just the way she is! <3

  268. sundai

    Very inspiring. The external may sometimes need to be negotiated but never at the expense of whats lit up on the inside. That is what the world needs, people who have come alive!
    Thanks so much for the interview xx

  269. What a wonderful interview, thank you so much! I love Berne Brown and her incredible work and am excitedly awaiting my pre-order to arrive in Australia.❤️

  270. Annabel Worsley

    Thankyou Marie and Brené.
    This was so powerful and made me cry, as it contained some awesome revelations for me.
    I have hidden in the shadows for too long, too fearful to voice my opinions as I didn’t believe either myself or my views were worth sharing (thanks for the reminder not to look for evidence that you’re not good enough – another biggie for me!).
    So posting this rather than just a thankyou or a ? is seriously out of my comfort zone!!
    I love the idea of accepting our imperfections and not allowing them to stop us from speaking out. Allowing ourselves to have a voice – even if it’s baby steps at first – has to be the way forward, as suppressing our voices for too long in my experience causes us (me!) to be too extreme when we (I!) do finally find the courage to speak. Here’s to humility, imperfection and finding our true voices ??x

  271. I am so happy to be able to listen to your conversation, because I left my home area to go to a new area and my friends and family are very far away, and for the first time I feel alone in a city and it became a struggle but it’s the wilderness for me and I will survive and the journey is also inspiring not belonging is such a freedom. This has brought out a new visual in life for me, Thank you. I am also starting a new on line business and keeping the doubt at bay is a daily struggle, kinda like not cussing, nice to listen to this I will thoroughly enjoy this book.

  272. “Don’t go out and look for evidence that you don’t belong, because you’ll find it.”
    This really changed everything for me! After watching you both I feel deeply encouraged to be more ME. And yes, we have to have these conversations and I’ll do my part, because I’m the f** wilderness. 🙂 Thank you so very much Marie and Brené, you’re such kind, brilliant and wild women!

  273. Benson Modie

    Thank you so much for being the torch bearers of human advancement. I found this conversation absolutely brilliant…….and represents my vision of what an advanced human species ought to relate like. I just hope this is a sign that we are going through an evolutionary transformation into a species that is much more effective in creating the future it desires.

  274. This is soooo powerful!!! She described the dehumanizing process brilliantly!

  275. Ani

    My first time seeing/hearing Brene Brown. Bravo on all her work and wonderful way of communicating these not-so-simple-nor-so-easy-to-discuss subjects. Loved “At the end of the day, week, life, I want to have contributed more than criticized.” I find the more mindful I become of what’s gonna fly out of my mouth when I open it, the less knee-jerk-reaction speaking I do, thus the less negative speech I engage in 🙂

  276. Fantastic! I love the BRAVING acronym, Maya’s quote and encouragement to be me, belong to me and be authentic, knowing that I won’t ‘fit’ in certain circumstances or groups…and that’s OK.

  277. I am the fucking wilderness.

    • And thank you. This was amazing.

  278. I recently connected how much gossip and judgment was negatively impacting me, having fallen into many situations where some ‘friends’ were making various comments about others and making me uncomfortable. I seriously started to develop anger and resentment toward these people for trying to pull me into their world rather than focusing on the positive; future plans, the good things in life etc. In fact, I recently had a huge accomplishment that they barely acknowledged but they seemed more excited to talk about what ‘so and so’ was doing or how that person’s life was falling apart. It made me sick. This conversation really made me see that I simply can’t be part of these conversations anymore but yet, stand up against them. Also, I am guilty of using language that puts others down. It has increased greatly in the last year, as I think it has with a lot of people – the words ‘white trash’ among other nasty terms can be heard coming out of my mouth daily and I see that this must also stop. I’m getting caught up in the anger instead of focusing on the positive in my life. I don’t want to be part of that world.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      I’m sorry there were people in your life who brought things out of the vault and made you uncomfortable. It’s good that you were able to recognize the toxic effect that was having on you and your friendship with those folks so you could remove yourself from the situation. Trust is sacred, and there are better ways to lift people up than tearing each other down. We’ve got our fingers crossed you’ll find a tribe who keeps the vault door firmly closed. <3

  279. David

    Thanks so much for this Marie, this was such an amazing and inspirational discussion. I had to watch it in bits so I could take it all in. There is so much here that I can take forward and use in those times when I feel its hard to be me and be valued for being me. Thanks again.

  280. Linda

    What resonated with me the most was when Brene Brown told us about how people wanted her to dress a certain way, etc… and that she 100% declined and was not willing to become someone else or alter herself. I find my husband tries to change me constantly and we have lots of strife over that because I too am not willing to change even for him. It’s not who I am and I will not be happy doing what he thinks I should do.
    I also liked her comment on how to respond to people who laugh at the expense of others. I would speak up but often have a problem coming up with an appropriate response in order to discourage such nasty comments, so I am guilty of being quiet and walking away. I think there should actually be a social studies class in school in order to educate children early on how to think of the best way to handle awkward social situations. As a person who moved a lot during childhood, I often feel that I lack social skills and never fully grasped how to interact well with others.
    I feel a little wiser after listening to this video. It strengthened some of my beliefs.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a good idea, Linda! It seems like people are just expected to know how to handle social situations and awkward situations naturally, but these are things we learn through living and, hopefully, from someone taking us under their wing to teach us.

  281. I am so here. I have felt like an outsider trying to find my way, trying to fit in when I don’t, and realizing, I don’t and its okay. I want to be the wilderness. Shifting my perspective.

  282. Mx. Sophia S.

    I loved this. I haven’t visited Marie’s site for a while, and I must say, during that time I have soul-searched a hell of a lot in regards to this surge of change in social attitudes. The already-polarised factions are appearing to calcify on each opposing side, and it is clear that we need debate and conversation more than ever.
    “People are hard to hate close up. Move in.”
    This quote is what has been filtering out from my home country, Greece, which is trying to assist and find creative social solutions for the refugees. It is beyond me how certain factions, who have no ‘up close’ experience of refugees or even of a single person in crisis, can so readily hate.

    Bless you Marie and Team, and Dr Brene Brown for encouraging us to find our centre and stand up for what we feel is moral.

    • I love those words: “People are hard to hate close up. Move in.”

  283. cindi

    that was amazing… i was going to listen n for a bit but could not stop til it ended..
    i believe it… i try to live some of it… certain people n charge r not my choice but i choose not to bash or name call… i just dont listen… not that it will change anything but just as u said… being nasty about it will not help so i pray…
    i have a lot to learn an will look for more… thank u both for sharing….

  284. Thank you Marie and Brené. What I took away from your discussion is that authenticity is the bravest path to take, although at times the most fearful. I often struggle when I feel passionate about certain issues in the world and I stop myself from expressing them on social media due to fear of rejection from ‘the tribe’ or assuming that my ‘audience’ may be offended or their view of me may become tainted. I also do the thing of ‘well, I’ll just stay quiet because it’s safer’. This interview has helped me to see that there are alternative ways to ‘ask a question’ rather than painting my view with any hint of anger or disgust with the world and that staying quiet is actually a way of not contributing to making this world a better place and avoiding my purpose. A positive motivation can make for a positive outcome. Thank you both, you beautiful beings. With love and gratitude xxxxx

  285. I am gonna view/listen to this interview many times over in the future.

    What stuck out to me most was the thing about speaking with “kindness” even to and about the people you don’t like/don’t agree with.

    And… I AM the fucking wilderNESS 🙂

  286. I enjoyed listening to this talk. I am a huge fan of Brene Brown. She has been a huge inspiration for the work I do in teaching parents ways to connect to their teens on a deeper level. I truly believe that meaningful conversations that instill values in our youth will make a great impact in our world. Sometimes the fear of not fitting in can shy people away from standing up for our true believes, but if our beliefs are strong and supported we can stand in our own power and be brave for the sake of human kind. Thanks Marie for this magnificent interview. I promise to continue spreading this type of message among our youth and their parents across the nation, through my work with ParenTeen Moments. As an educator for 22 years, I know how much this is needed.

  287. Andrea

    Brene has outdone herself. Hands down best Marie Forleo interview till date. I didn’t know why I was so wary of the wild, and this gives so much perspective why. So much to ponder once I can get my hands on this book. Surprisingly, the last part made me cry too.

  288. Louise Pollard

    I like to call myself a certified “Brené Brown-nose” because I simply love Brené and all the great work that she does…Marie you’re up there too! This conversation provided me with a beautiful checklist to apply from today and everyday as there’s a lot of wilderness in my world and I want to feel free rather than trapped by it. Thank you ladies for inspiring change and for firing up the courage to change many conversations that are swirling around me. ‘B-r-a-v-i-n-g’ is my new accomplice!

  289. OMG! such a good interview…I into tears…I am “wildness soul” too…
    Thank you so much Marie, fantastic work on this interview….
    I have faced that sense of not belonging anywhere for year, and it has made me very sad in many occasions , but I had what some else called here an “epiphany” too…:
    “True belongings is a spiritual practice….” wauuuu!
    thank you so much,

  290. I absolutely adore this woman and this is 100% my favourite video from Marie.
    Brene is both fearless and beautiful – the definition of what women of purpose and consciousness should be striving for. She seems to understand and is able to articulate the human condition like I’ve never seen anyone be able to do quite so well before, and as an admirer of Maya Angelou myself, I can clearly see that her warmth and spirit has been inspired by and is infused throughout her work.

    When she talks about us being brave enough to have those hard conversations…well, she’s 100% right. Just imagine how much we could all accomplish if we done things for the greater good and not just to make our lives more comfortable.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s such a good point, Tori. We can all make a difference in the world and that comes from empathy and considering how we can show up for others, even when it requires us to be uncomfortable. <3

  291. Christina

    MARIE youve done it AGAIN!!! THIS…..this was amazing, Brene – THANK YOU!!

    OH MAN!! I had to watch this interview over 2 days and multiple times….like at least 5. There is SO MUCH in here that I was getting lost in my own train of thought and segways I would miss the rest of the convo!
    SO amazing, hot topic centred and i LOVED it! Brene, once again you are that mentor/ cheerleader in my corner that NEVER stops keeping me on the path of Enough. BRAVING is my new standard of living, because it has all the components of communication needed for my business & how to communicate with others better, more efficiently, effectively. i LOVE the brooks brothers comment – its TRUE!! As much as I love to clean up nice and such things, my message won’t change much by the clothing I’m wearing. And finally, i am the fucking wilderness!
    With hundreds of hugs, love and support to Marie, Brene, the recording crew, everyone who has a part in bringing these interviews to my inbox every tuesday – THANK YOUxoxoxo

  292. I have always felt this way, but never clearly defined it so well: “Take responsibility for the energy you put into the World.” This so easily defines actionable behavior on EVERY platform and I will definitely be using this as a guide myself for how I move forward.

  293. Where do I begin? Every key point touched a nerve or inspired me to own my wilderness . My copy of “Braving the Wilderness” comes today, and I can’t wait to dig in, reflect, and learn. I’ve heard repeatedly that when the student is ready, the teacher will show up. I’m ready. Thanks for showing up! Thank you for 36 minutes of authentic conversation about some of the toughest issues we face today. I have new insights into how I can contribute conversations that humanize rather than polarize. I am walking away with equipped to begin to find ways to show up every day as myself and take on BRAVING. I will start with me and holding on to the fact that, “My worth and my belonging are not negotiable with other people. I carry those inside my heart.”
    BTW: I’m a native Houstonian/Texan – Buc-cee’s is a site to see …

  294. Thank you, thank you for this interview! My heart is literally swelling with hope and encouragement and love. My main takeaway from this conversation is about dehumanizing others. I have been so guilty of this – mainly towards the woman who my husband had an affair with a few years ago. I spewed venomous words about her to anyone who would listen. It felt good for like 3 seconds….and then the shame came. It so negatively impacted my own soul for so long. Once I started “rehumanizing” her, I started to heal from the shame and anger, which gave me so much freedom to grow and cultivate more joy in my life. I am now a life coach for women recovering from divorce, and I feel this is such a valuable lesson in that arena.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much for sharing how re-humanization manifested in your life. I feel like this is something so many of us can learn from, so I’m glad you’re sharing this valuable insight with your coaching clients. <3

  295. So beautiful! Many thanks to you for your leadership and bravery, Marie and Brene! xoxo

  296. This was amazing! Thank you so much for talking about how to stay true to yourself in the face of hustling contracts, clients and the view of the world. So many great tools. You are both fucking rockstars! Cussing and Praying was my favorite part, it so resonates with how I teach 🙂

  297. Charlene Stepherson

    Wow! Simply Amazing, I loved it! Learning to embrace my WILD!

  298. The part about no longer betraying myself to fit into someone else’s vision hit home like a (bleeeeeeep)!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Haha! LOVE IT!

  299. Thank you both Marie and Brené for this video. It felt like you made sense of everything I’ve been trying to articulate for years. I think the world needs us humans to come home to ourselves. I think we’d see such a radical change if we all gave ourselves permission to self-love and find ways to be at home within ourselves.

    You are both so inspiring, thank you for all that you do, Hannah

  300. It’s so funny to me hearing you gush about Buc-ee’s because as a Texan I see firsthand how people will drive out of the way to get to one. I’ve been having issues with braving my wilderness, so this episode had wonderful timing.

  301. My of my, there were so many great take-aways!! My favorite was the part of the conversation about de-humanizing people. I hadn’t thought in that way. I’m going to apply that to my daily life. Next time I want to judge someone, I’ll better be able to stop myself and look within. Asking why am I wanting to judge? Why am I wanting to de-humanize this person. Thank you Marie TV and Bene Brown ???

  302. Whenever I hear that which rings true to my soul, I’m brought to tears. “I am the wilderness” brought me to tears. I have followed this my entire life. Blazing my own trail – regardless of the difficulties – having to machete my way through the challenges. And now, at 63 years young, I am launching my next new life as a writer (after having been an accountant :-/ ). Thank you, Marie and Brené for this heartfelt, eye-opening, meaningful video. I wish the whole world would watch and read Brenés new book. You know I will!

  303. Love, Love, Love. There is not one bit of this interview that did not resonate deeply with my core beliefs and the ways I do my best to conduct myself in my daily life. I think the biggest affirmation it held for me this morning is in speaking up. It is about feeling safe in speaking up and speaking out. I know I can no longer allow fear to silence me. I feel that if I’m not contributing to the betterment of the world by sharing my voice, I’m contributing to the detriment by remailing silent. I wrestle with this one. I’m breaking my silence here and now by leaving this comment, the first comment I’ve left on any external forum in several years. The world needs people with love in their hearts to speak up.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      This is beautiful, Gail! I especially loved this quote you shared: “If I’m not contributing to the betterment of the world by sharing my voice, I’m contributing to the detriment by remailing silent.” It’s so good to hear you’re committing to speaking out and we’re so glad you decided to leave a comment here! You’re always welcome in this community.

  304. Karen Drosnes

    Two of my favorite teachers in one episode! MARVELOUS!!! “I am not willing to betray myself anymore to fit in with you.” After being shamed by my husband (at that moment, he is now my ex)) when he said that I did not meet up to his standards (He is a Doctor and I barely made it through High School yet still an intelligent woman) I realized how most of my life I have been trying to put a square peg into a round hole. NO MORE! For the last 2 years (I am 59) I have been journeying into the depths of my soul and finding my authentic self. Dr Brown, you and your work, have helped to guide me on that journey. And for you Miss Forleo, I am a faithful fan that can not get enough of you! Yoe fucking rock! Thank you for this video… I felt as though I was sitting at the table with you two and sharing in this fantabulous conversation! Rock on sisters!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      No matter your level of schooling, you are enough, and it’s your heart that matters. I’m sorry your ex couldn’t see that because it sounds like he missed out! You’re wonderful just the way you are.

      • Karen Drosnes

        Thank you Mandee and I totally agree! I am very clear with my “enoughness” today and am a shining star in my eyes! Thank you to you and the team to help Marie tv run for the rest of us groupies! ?

  305. This was a fantastic interview. Thank you both for showing up and discussing this timely topic in a productive and thoughtful way.

    As a political activist myself, my favorite part was when Brown discusses those who have the “privilege” not to speak up, to care or take action. So many of my friends say “Oh, I just don’t like to talk about politics,” or “I just don’t have the time,” or “that’s not my passion”.

    Well, like the saying goes, you may not take an interest in politics, but politics will sure take an interest in you.

    I do have one burning question though…

    As far as “agreeing to disagree” or “getting closer” and in-person understandings… those are all great. There’s value in that for sure, however, at the end of the day, agreeing to disagree is one thing, implementing policy/laws based on your beliefs which then affects those who disagree with you is another, and is also the end result and the reality of the modern political landscape in America. Originally, our Founding Fathers had this cutting edge idea that liberty and freedom would be a priority, and that limiting the power of politicians & bureaucrats (aka the government) was a good idea because, as Lord Acton said, “Absolute power corrupts absolutely”. Newsflash: The government isn’t some almighty, pieous, blessed, wise and all-knowing royal entity – it’s made up of the same humans who inhabit this planet with us “civilians” who also suffer from many of the dark sides of the human condition. One common trait of that dark side: humans get a bit bat-shit cray when they smell power and money. Even the best of them. Even the ones who start with the best intentions.

    SO… I think it’s important to take the conversation one step further, and ask ourselves, “Am I forcing my beliefs or values onto someone else? Or am I giving them the freedom to live their life according to their values just as I would like to live mine according to my values?”

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really important distinction, Ashley! Thank you for sharing it. It’s unfortunate that power can corrupt even the best people, so it’s important for us to hold people accountable. I think that gets to the heart of what Brené was talking about in many cases. She talked about listening, and being accountable inherently involves listening to others. She talked about being responsible for the energy we put into the world, which means being accountable for the ways our energy affects others. She talked about speaking out, which means our peers holding us accountable for what we say and how we act upon our words. Accountability is a common thread––one that’s absolutely vital.

  306. Thank you, Marie and Brené for this wonderful segment. It really touched me. It’s funny, even though I’m older now, many times I still look to others for validation; I don’t want to do that anymore. This is a quote I’ll carry with me … “Our worth and our belonging are not negotiated with other people. We carry those inside of our hearts.” Thanks again, with much love. ❤️

  307. Jacqui

    As someone who has been following Marie since 2013 and have never commented on any content, I have to say that this episode hands down has got to be my all time favorite. It really resonated with me. There is so much wisdom and love, you can feel it – I too was in tears by the end of the episode. Thank you ladies for putting this out into the world! xoxo

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s so wonderful to hear, Jacqui! We’re so glad you decided to leave a comment. You’re always welcome in this community and we’re happy you’re here.

  308. I’ve often opted for not saying anything – as the more loving response. And you’re right Brenne – this is privilege! I will practice being the wilderness – standing alone – knowing that we all belong to each other – and using my voice to illuminate the path of love and compassion!

  309. Oh my God…
    I wanna thank Marie and Brene for this wonderfully actionable AND soulful conversation. Honestly, it didn’t take me long to start crying, which was followed by immediately ordering the book on Amazon.
    My whole life has been about preserving my integrity and doing what’s right for me and other people, and sometimes I can get bitter because not everyone operates on this level or from this PoV. But I think what’s happening is that sometimes people forget how to be people, and sometimes I am to blame because I didn’t dig into what upset me. I just accepted it as something that it wasn’t and created this damaging narrative as Marie calls it.
    What I’m taking from this conversation is that dehumanizing each other is unacceptable and that if it’s not something useful, don’t share it. Because even though I’m not a troll who trashes everyone, like most people, I would jump to judgment “because it’s my right to tell the truth and be honest,” thinking it’s constructive. But if you’re judging one’s nature, one’s core belief system, then it’s not just not useful, but it’s very damaging and mean as hell.
    I’ll definitely ask this question next time and remember that even though we are all just names on a screen, behind those names beats a very human heart, and that heart should be taken care of, by everyone.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Love this share, Violeta! Sometimes criticism can be helpful when it’s constructive and when the recipient is willing. Since you mentioned you’re not a troll and giving constructive criticism, it sounds like you’re trying to be helpful. If you’re concerned about how people may take your criticism, it may be helpful to ask if it’s okay to share your criticism before you share it. That way they’ll know you’re trying to be helpful and you’ll know for sure whether they want it. It sounds like your heart is in the right place, so I hope this helps!

      • Totally makes sense! We are so used to sharing our opinions everywhere, all the time, but now I’ll be more careful and asking people if they want me to. I really do want to take care of my fellow human beings. It’s like the old saying – treat people the way you want to be treated. Cheers, Mandy! 🙂

  310. tiffany

    I thought this interview was wonderful. Such a refreshing conversation, I didn’t feel sold to at all, and for the first time in ages (probably because I am too caught up in entrepreneur content!) I felt like I was witnessing a truly honest, important and inspiring conversation that gives hope for things in this world starting to head in a better direction. I admire both of you for your brave way of speaking up.

  311. Ina Krug

    So Dehumanisation, if I get it right or one aspekt ,is to treat human beeings like animals, by for example calling them “pig”.
    In my opinion one reason why human beeings develop this cruelty is because they are treating animals not as feeling living beeings. Even if you are not cruel your self and “only” consum the result of cruelty, in my Personal opinion it influences our mind and feelings…
    To make it short, I belive that ” The way we treat, other concious living enteties is the way we will treat each other one day.”
    Very inspiring Episode! Thank you Marie and Brene.

  312. Oh so many nuggets in this video, naturally to share on my FB feed and beyond ! Thank you both. I woke this morning in a pause, a morning to catch up with myself and create new direction of my next steps. Usually a time of offline and inward, I had the feeling “pay attention” to the conversations in the collective, and on the digital spaces. So it became a day of collecting “Witness Wisdom” as I call it. Even with self time calling, I was pulled to a sense of alert, of merging streams of info and comment reaching out to connect. Some to be heard and cuddled, some to use their platform to spark new perspective, some to engage, some to influence my thoughts and feelings. From “new to me” sponsored posts to my fave Marie TV 🙂 I felt a ripple of a new conscious awakening infrastructure of freedom, freewill guidelines of inclusion, kindness, honoring accountable voices stepping into a space , a vortex of natural authentic sharing showing up to be heard by me. Time of recordings or posting varied and yet they seem to be weaving an energetic education hinting of a new focus growing in the collective. Welcoming the willing into their wilderness of unique self-expression. Enjoying the debate of diversity without polarization and safety’s concern. I see a glimmer of social evolution growing out of psychological fears and stories into a clarity of community choices and taking action trends that bring awesomeness and genius alive. Deep FUN (freedom union now ) and YUM for the soul.

  313. wow, Brene Brown is amazing, her work is so needed. the interview was great!

  314. I have a business that does leadership coaching and training. I just posted this video to our facebook page, with “This! All of this!” I really needed the inspiration today. Thanks!

  315. Lovie

    I laughed, I cried. I felt hopeless and alone before this. I feel hopeful and feel a little bit of courage to stand in the wilderness with myself. I’m scared but I have to do want to do. Thanks you beautiful, wild women, Marie and Brene’…

  316. Lynn

    Oh my gosh. You just changed my life. I thank God for putting you in front of me this afternoon with that eye opening message of yours.

  317. As someone who lost her job last week for stepping up and being herself, I could not help the tears come out on those very last words from Brené.
    I now know I did the right thing.
    Amazing people like you keep us going with your powerful example.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Oh my gosh, I’m so sorry that happened to you, Paula. I’m glad you feel good knowing you did the right thing and I hope your next job celebrates all of your strengths and the many things you bring to the table!

      • It’ ok Mandy.
        I’m a B-Schooler 2017 and I’ve been working on my business on the side. Now it’s time to go all in! I’ll keep you posted!
        Thanks for all the love and support!

  318. Brilliant and inspiring. Just what I needed as I brave my personal wilderness!

  319. I had to stop the video 3 minutes in to process the Maya Angelou quote! 🙂

    The one thing that struck me most though (and made me cry), was when Brené spoke about dehumanizing language being the core of every genocide in our history. I’m German. I’ve learned about the political side of why and how the Nazis came to power. However, I didn’t learn about the social details and linguistic aspects.

    This is SO important right now. Germany has a federal election coming up and right-winged parties are gaining more and more voters – and they’re using more and more dehumanizing language.

    Thank you, Brené Brown for reminding us to watch our language and morals.
    Thank you, Marie Forleo for providing such a great interview for free, even for those of us who don’t live in the US (especially since we’ll probably have to wait a little longer to get Brené’s book! ;-))

    • suzana

      I hear you loud and clear. I´m from Germany too…
      Great comment! Greetings

  320. Your kindness, Marie. Your softness. And the way you showed yourself. Loved Brene as well. So powerful. Thanks from the heart! X

  321. So fantastic to watch. She is just wonderful and simple and awesome. I watched her TED talk literally a few weeks ago and totally fell in love with all the messages she shares with the world. Thanks Marie TV.

  322. Marie and Brene- two wonderful women giving it to us straight up.
    I found myself taking notes. I can’t wait to order my copy of the book.
    I say f’ing AMEN for the 2 of you. Keep it coming and encouraging us to evolve and grow. That’s Y we are here PEOPLE Wake up. ( Also a name of one of my paintings)
    Warm Regards,
    a Jersey girl!

  323. suzana

    Thank you so much Brene´ and Marie. Touching my heart, spirit and mind with so much humility and benevolence, maybe this is why it´s called ” the humanly touch”?!
    Resonating deeply with the utter most questions, fears and longings of humanity. I think the disconnect and fear of loosing oneself is the root of so much sadness and violence in this world, so thank you for lighting up the path …finding ourselfs again and embracing the humanness that we are.
    Thank you much LOVE

  324. My heart expanded many times over. Thank you both for having this conversation.

  325. The closing paragraph Brene read made it so complete — especially as I enter this next chapter of my journey. I’m so grateful for this conversation. Thank you both.

  326. LOVED this episode. THANK YOU Marie <3
    I took notes, cried a bit in the last part of this video and feel very connected & grateful for the opportunity to do the work I do. Thank you so much Marie for inspiring me and kicking my ass (lovingly) to stay on my game, to show up with integrity and love and to work hard in giving my all to the world with the best of my ability.
    Love you,

  327. Amazing!!! Just finished the video, and still trying to process! I couldn’t agree more with the overall message. I believe that’s the shift we need in this world. While I try my hardest not to engage in people bad talking one another (especially women saying bad things about other women) I’ll try to be more conscious of it now. And speak up when others are doing it. Xoxo Keep up the good work Marie and Brene’!

  328. Jessica F.

    Brought to tears… trying to forgive myself for allowing myself to negotiate my soul to fit in especially in seeking employment. Loved, the close of the book, “…I am the wilderness..” Praising my wilderness and regaining my soul, on my own – never to negotiate my inner being ever again. Thank you both so very much for this episode of Marie TV – love you Marie! And now I love Brene’ too. Hope to see you both “in the F***ig wild!”

  329. I was moved to tears. I have downloaded the book and will share it with my women’s group. I was moved by the ENTIRE interview. However, I do take away the acronym- BRAVING. I can’t wait to dive into this gem and talk about it with the women in my discussion forum! Thank you Marie and thank you Brene… xox

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Awesome, Daphne! I hope your discussion group enjoys Brené’s wisdom too. It’s so cool you have a group of women to discuss these important issues with!

  330. Raechel Bratnick

    Very inspiring and timely. Both in the greater world around us, but for me personally, it offered me a moment of reflection on how I have grown around shame . Recently I went through a troubling, dehumanizing event, and watched how shame lapped at the shore of my self-hood and I did not step into it. I kept my self-value, even as I was in the wilderness. Brene, you offer us your real true self; you makes me smile. Clearly you struggles at times, and your authenticity around these struggles inspires me. Don’t want to forget that I so appreciate your clarity and precision, Brene. Thank you to Marie for the ease of conversation.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      I’m really sorry that happened to you, Raechel. You didn’t deserve that at all and I hope things are looking up. <3

  331. This conversation validates so much of what I have been grappling with of late. After Pres. Trump commented on the violence in Charleston and I saw that no one – no one I personally know and no one in the media except Fox News – actually heard what he said. I’m not a Republican, but I heard Pres. Trump decry the actions of the neo-nazis and white nationalists. There is mass selective hearing when we want to keep the “enemy” at bay.
    I love the acronym BRAVING – it should be the new 7 Commandments for the Braving New World. It’s a beautiful standard for all of us. I so want my grandchildren to have that anchor and standard to measure against. Thank you for your dedicated work.

  332. Love you both so much! I started listening to Brene’s book today on Audible at the gym! So inspired. Yes! Don’t go looking for ways we don’t fit in or don’t belong! because we’ll find it. That is just a gem!!!

  333. I love that BRAVING checklist! I can’t wait to read the book and study these ideas.

    Thank you Marie and Brene also for the idea of “get a bigger tool bag.” This is an idea I’ll be able to use again and again when people start conversations about my work with claims that compassion for all others, be they enemy or friends, will lead to coddling and violence. It’s not necessary when we have tools like curiosity, leadership, boundaries and empathy and more!

  334. This talk was brilliant. I shared the clip regarding politically divided name-calling with a loved one because, let’s face it, when Trump appears on TV, not all of us are so kind, including me!
    One aspect of dehumanization that I’ve been struggling with is the fact that there’s a not insignificant minority of people who are intent on dehumanizing and do great destruction to others, often because they were also irreparably harmed. I wish we were talking about how to protect our hearts and our societies from those who pathologically dehumanize and absolutely cannot be reasoned with- it is the elephant in the room. Maybe Brene covers that more in depth in the book. I’m looking forward to reading it.

  335. This interview was amazing. I have Dr. Brown’s book Daring Greatly but have never fully read it due to time constraints. Even though I have never even read it, just the cover and the inside flap have helped me to keep up the confidence to keep moving forward with the work that I am trying to get out to the world. My work is based on yoga and A Course in Miracles, and I realized that what Brene has done with this most recent book is taken the self-study aspect of yoga and turn the magnifying glass on high power. Thank you both Marie (I’ve been through B-School 3 times) and Brene for being brave enough to be the wilderness and being that example for the rest of us. I think what hit home the most was that ability for us to dehumanize others so that we can dislike them and push them away. It is when we can push past this ego desire we can gain the ability to speak our truth without causing harm. This can be extremely difficult when we feel “wronged” in any way. But if we can learn to rise above the ego, the gift of what we receive when we choose to live this way is truly a miracle.

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      Ginger, we so appreciate you being here and sharing in the conversation. The concept of dehumanizing is most certainly a call to action for all of us. We’re all in this together.

  336. This was indeed a conversation for our times. Thank you both so very much. I was struck by the call to generate “A million acts of kindness and consciousness.” One way I am doing this is through a global initiative called the You Matter Marathon – no running required! Its purpose is to create positive connections between individuals and within communities by sharing 1 Million “you matter” cards in November. It is a concrete random action of kindness that we all can take to re-humanize our world.

  337. Martha

    I love Brene Brown’s work. As someone who’s been called weak because of my empathy and vulnerability, I love how she’s shaping the conversation. When she said, “don’t walk through the world looking for evidence that you’re not enough because you will always find it.” WOW! That hit home for someone who’s yet to shake off the fear of I’m not enough/smart enough/good enough….yet, I’m choosing to get uncomfortable and move forward with launching my own business, even though I’m scared as sh!t.

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      Empathy and vulnerability are signs of strength and resilience, not weakness, Martha. Stay exactly as you are- BRAVING. xo

  338. Marla

    That was the single most important video interview you have posted Marie…. great job!!!!

  339. This certainly is a conversation for our time.
    I find it is easier to ‘stand alone” when you are speaking with curiosity and listening with generosity. Ive struggled with both of these in the past, but now I am settling into a new way of being.
    My conversations are changing, they are aligned with much of what has been said here.
    It is empowering to know we are at the crest of a new wave of consciousness.
    BTW I love the scientific research to put names on what Ive felt. Especially de-humanisation. This really got me, it gives a concrete “reason” why it is not acceptable to name to objectify those we dis-agree with.
    Hell I was a militant skin-head when I was about 14 – when I was rebelling, searching and angry. Look at me now!
    We need to look for the best in people, bring that out and patiently look on with love as the rest is given time to grow. (up) 🙂

  340. Brilliant! Am going to get the book!

  341. Jenilee A Reyes

    Contribute > Criticize. #brilliant.

  342. Brené, you are the gift I have been praying for all year. I have been what I will call a loudmouth feminist for many years, and it has done very little. This frustrated me, and I would think, “Why doesn’t anyone understand?” The day our current president won office, I became quiet. Clearly, all of my posts and everything I thought I was saying wasn’t heard. There must be another way to change things, to come at these issues. I have been very, very quiet since, and, in true introvert fashion, observing all around me, trying to determine the best actions to take and the best language to use to move forward. I couldn’t find one person I wanted to emulate. Some of my closest friends online, women, lgbtq people, blacks and latinos…I can no longer engage in the language they use. It no longer feels ok, and actually it never did. And I have felt the need to be very quiet in my discomfort with their language; I haven’t told even one of them, you know what? I disagree with what you posted today, even though it is supposedly in line with my liberal and feminist views. The language is nothing but hate. I can’t express how grateful I am for this conversation you two just shared with all of us in the world, and I cannot wait to read your book. I know my life will be incredibly changed.

  343. Steph

    Parts of the conversation/interview reminded me of what someone once told me, “Always work to eliminate the problem, not the person.” Good line, right?
    There are works by Barbara Coloroso that may interest you, Marie & everyone; her focus is largely on parenting, bullying & solutions, but she also wrote a book about genocide, Extraordinary Evil, that really delves into the idea of how easily people can dehumanize others & what can be done to break the cycle.
    Brene’s work is hard on me – I struggle regularly with my sense of belonging – but her words are SO valuable. Thank you & Brene for continually uplifting me to hope for Enough & Better. Continuous work in progress, here.

  344. So much here to share and ponder. Loved all of it. The parts about not negotiating myself away, thing yes, self no. The toolbox had me laughing. You both make the world a more wonderful awesome place?

  345. Stephanie Walsh

    Marie! You are fabulous!
    I’ve just recently discovered you and I’m so grateful that I have.

    I’m currently reading The Gifts of Imperfection, where I find myself saying “Yessss! That!!” outloud and often!
    It’s like Brené had spent time in my head and heart and can answer questions I didn’t know I even had.
    It’s been a joy to read!
    Now I can’t wait to get my hands on Braving The Wilderness!

    Thank you ladies for doing what you do, and being who you are.
    I dig it. Deeply. ?
    Much gratitude.

  346. Georgia

    Thank you for such an awesome interview. I just LOVE Brene.
    That last reading from Brene! SO SO good! And goosebumps all over my body.
    Feeling inspired and alive. I am the wilderness.
    g xx

  347. Andrea Brown

    Powerful interview and subject. This resonated greatly with me and already forwarded to others. Thank you for sharing.

  348. Giovanna

    Oh Marie and Brene! What a beautiful, honest and clear interview. So many valuable nuggets. “I want to be able to say that I contributed more than I criticized”. Yes, yes, yes. The shame, dehumanizing language, the sorry ass tool bag….so many great lessons here and loved every minute of it. Thank you for sharing.

  349. Oh, Wow, I’m so blown away right now! I loved being able to watch this interview between these two inspiring, beautiful, wild women. This interview reminded me of another book I read that helped me find my way during a challenging time; Women who Run with the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes. I so needed to be reminded of this message and I cannot wait to read Brene’s book (and I’m so glad neither of you is willing to back down on the cussing and the faith).
    Many Thanks

  350. Kristen

    I am so struck by “You are responsible for the energy you bring…” comment. That feels like a key to me. Show up and be accountable with your mere presence. Yes!

  351. Dewi

    I take it as a great lecture Marie, the most impactful part is the closing part where the fact about having the courage to stand alone, knowing that we stand by our truth regardless people’s opinion and stay outside the common rules is a strong affirmation to keep moving forward on my truth, to do the action and be brave on it to thrive. Not for craving over power but purely to stand by our own truth.
    Thank you Marie for peeling Brene’s book.

  352. I was most impacted by your obvious respect and authenticity with each other. I liked being part of the conversation. I liked getting a toolkit for negotiating those burning moments when you know you have something to say but you don’t want to add fuel to the fire. I felt encouraged – Brene gave voice to a part of me that I haven’t been able to articulate. Thank you, I was moved and look forward to reading the book. Wish to have people like you in my life to be real with.

  353. I’m a huge fan of both of you lovely ladies, and while it took me two days to watch this, I’m in awe. I’m in love with the idea of respectful authenticity. Meaning, let me be me, and I will let you be you, and we can be civil, and respectful, and friendly, and supportive, and still hold true to our respective beliefs. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. This is the revolution I am willing to join.

    • Heather- Team Forleo

      Here’s to the kind of revolution the world needs more of- all of us being who we truly are meant to be braving together. We’re with you, Heather.

  354. Kitty

    So much wisdom in this episode and so many things have been said that really makes me stop and think and take a good look at myself and some wonderful comments I read! Now for a completely different kind of focus on today’s episode a part of me rose to the occasion wanting to prompt my question below that may well not be liked very much. But especially with all that’s been said I brave myself to express them below (perhaps it will help me to express myself more bravely to my ex-husband).

    Before every episode you stress that adult language may be used and that often made me wonder while I never considered it before. Now in this episode Brene put even more emphasis on it.
    Am I a goody goody when it comes down to ‘using appropriate language’? I don’t think so. Sometimes when I hurt my big toe or something, I use some very strong adult language myself. I’m Dutch and even though over here people do use ‘adult language’, may be it’s not as much imbedded in the language culture as it may be in the US or/and especially made apologies (or disclaims) for?

    All this got me wondering: How did swearing become part of your identity, of your way of expressing yourself?

    I’m wondering if it is also a way of ‘dehumanizing’ your words, your language? It does have a very powerful energy to it that you put out there. That’s why people often use it, right? Though it may seem an awkward comparison, people who accuse or offend and dehumanize others I often hear defending themselves by saying: “But this is who I am, I am allowed to speak my mind, it’s a free country and I don’t really mean it that bad, but it’s just the way I express myself and I am not going to let anybody hold me down (anymore) or change who I am because someone doesn’t like it. Or as Brene puts it’s so right: “I shall not be moved”. Do we all do this out of that deep-rooted fear of being robbed of there authenticity? All I want to do is invite you to think carefully about the language your using by wondering what it really means you’re saying and the energy it contains. By the way, I am an agnost with a lot of questions and I did write this only with a question mark in mind.

    Though it took me a lot of courage to do so, Brene’s wisdom words helped me to dare address this!

    With warm appreciation for your show and lots of love,

  355. Nives Jurkin Stambolija

    It took me ages to see that video as I was rewinding the sequences all the time to check that I haven’t missed anything (because English is not my mother tounge ((hello to everyone from Croatia 🙂 ) and also because I want to hear it all over again…it’s a new perspective to seeing things which comes to me so logically and rightfully …thank you both and thank you for your passion (work) that help us grow 🙂