Marie Forleo introduction


I'm Marie

You have gifts to share with the world and my job is to help you get them out there.

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In this episode of MarieTV, we do have some adult language. So if you do have little ones around, grab your headphones now.

Hey there and welcome to the Marie Forleo Podcast. It’s me, Marie. And my guest today is my dear friend, Danielle LaPorte. Now, if you don’t know D already I’m gonna tell you about her right now.

Danielle is an invited member of Oprah’s Super Soul 100, a group who, in Oprah’s words, is uniquely connecting the world together with a spiritual energy that matters. Danielle is the author of several books including her latest, White Hot Truth: Clarity For Keeping it Real On Your Spiritual Path from One Seeker to Another.

You may also know her from her previous books like The Firestarter Sessions and The Desire Map: A Guide to Creating Goals With Soul. That book has been translated into eight languages, evolved into a yearly day planner system, a top 10 iTunes app, and an international workshop program with licensed facilitators in 15 countries.

Named one of the top 100 websites for women by Forbes, millions of visitors go to every month for her daily truth bombs and what’s been called the best place online for kickass spirituality.

Now, I do wanna say before we go into the conversation that this conversation is an adult conversation. So you will hear some language that is not appropriate for little ones. So if you have little ones around, please put on your headphones. And if that kind of adult language offends you, this may be a podcast you want to skip. And with that, let’s get into the conversation.

Danielle LaPorte, welcome to the Marie Forleo Podcast, woman!

Marie, Marie. We are together.

We are together once again. Many years. Many different adventures. So I just want to congratulate you. Your new book is called White Hot Truth: Clarity for Keeping it Real on Your Spiritual Path from One Seeker to Another. So tell me, my love. What inspired you to write this book? Why this message and why right now?

Well, first of all, I want to say. I want to make you a ringtone because the way you say the subtitle is perfect. “Keeping it real.”

Okay, why did I write it? I was exhausted. I felt like when I looked at my calendar that everything that I was supposed to be holding dear to me about growing and deepening and esoterics and meditation and being at one with my body and the universe had really just become a to do list. And I could see the same kind of fatigue around me in the women I was speaking to and my girlfriends and I hit the wall. I hit the wall of self improvement. I got tired of trying to be better at getting better.

Goodness gracious. You know, we had a MarieTV not too long ago where someone was asking me if it’s like okay to take a break with self improvement. And I was like “oh, hell yeah. Sometimes the best self improvement is realizing you don’t really need to be improved. You’ve just gotta live.”

So one of the things that I love that I highlighted in your book, many, many things, you said “all the woo is keeping us from dealing with our poo. And that fulfilment stems from our motives. It’s not how we speak – we seek spiritual growth. It’s why we seek it in the first place.” What does that mean to you?

That’s everything. It’s like that’s the heartbeat of all of this. I think, first of all, for myself I have no judgment around how someone is trying to be better. Like, you can go to Bible study, you can go to soul cycle and spin your ass off, you can hit the yoga mat, you can pray. Whatever it is. So many paths I think we’re all headed in the same direction. But it’s about the motivation.

And so for me, motivation is this external thing. Inspiration is an internal pull and push. It’s this dynamic. So it’s about trying to please people. It’s about getting approval from whoever you call God. I thought because having been raised Catholic, which Jesus is still – I was just Instagramming about this over Easter – Jesus is still my homeboy. Christianity is still part of my quilt.

But I thought what I had done was I survived Catholic school, I let go of all the repression and the oppression that I felt from organized religion, and I thought I had freed myself up, that there was some kind of liberation happening. Because, you know, I was like so progressive and sexually liberated. But really I had just replaced that male deity authority in the sky with some other authority, which I came to call the cosmic council.

And the cosmic council looks like way hipper. The cosmic council is like into tantra, cosmic council smokes a little bit of weed, it looks great in black, stretchy yoga pants. But still, wanting to be good, wanting to be okay. “Am I pure enough, am I clean enough, am I fit enough, am I tolerant enough, am I compassionate – am I meditating right, am I doing – am I praying in the best possible way?”

So there was still this striving. And the striving I could see in other parts of my life. I mean, the last book, Desire Map, was all about letting go of that striving and coming at your goals from a heart centered place.


But I really hadn’t seen the subtleties of the striving was there still, really on my spiritual path. And the woo and the poo question has everything to do with what’s called spiritual bypassing. And this is such a sexy monaker, I wish I would’ve come up with it.

But spiritual bypassing is basically when you’re using all of the nice, harmonious, esoteric stuff. Harmony and tolerance and goodness and all of that, to not deal with the ugly, messy, scary, bitchy, unforgiving, anxiety-riddled stuff about being human. But if you don’t deal with that, you don’t deal with that poo, then obviously you don’t grow, you don’t get whole, and you don’t get what you want, which is access to your power.

You know, I really resonate in terms of all of this striving. And what you remarked upon when it comes to Desire Map, which, by the way, was brilliant. Another brilliant piece of work of yours. That I think it’s also a reflection of where we are at right now in culture and society when it comes to technology, and specifically social media. And people Instagramming every goddamn moment of their life.

“I’m in my yoga pants, I’m doing my ritual, I’ve got my altar.” And it’s like, really? Just put it down for a minute. So many of us, and this is natural. Right? This is the human brain. Can just get swept away in comparison. And it’s just such a great mechanism to really deepen those roots of striving. Like you’re not keeping up, you’re not where you should be by now. And in your lens it was not sure if you’re pleasing the cosmic council, which I love. But this idea of letting go of the striving and letting go of the woo, which, you know, I’m a girl who can get into woo from every now and again.

But you do have to deal with the tough stuff underneath and it ain’t cute. And like crystals and chants and pray – it doesn’t go away. You’ve gotta like hang out there for a little bit and let it be messy and let it be gross and let yourself be as judgmental and angry and upset as you need to be in that moment before you can move through it. So I am just … I’m so excited about this book. I laughed so many times throughout the whole thing, laugh out loud moments. And one of the parts that had me howling, because I too share this, my love, is when you remarked that sometimes you get so sick of seeing your own shit online. Can you tell me about that?

It’s tricky because we’re in this business. And my prosperity is directly linked to my visibility. So I have to hustle. And then I’m a natural communicator. I love these tools, although I would say if I wasn’t in this space I don’t know if I would be on Facebook. I would actually just call my friends. But I love Instagram.

And sometimes, yeah, I think expanding the reach of social media and getting on yet another platform, my girls right now really want me to get into Instagram stories. I’m just like, “Really? Really? How much of me can people tolerate? Like, do I have to?” I have got nothing – my life is not that exciting. I mean, I’m either on the road, which is super glamorous and awesome and exhausting, or I’m home living this really quiet, writerly, mom, clean life. Right?


And also, I have my own internal cringe and wince mechanism also known as discernment. And when I see so much stuff out there that is filtered down, watered down, sacred teachings put into sound bites, that I think the people who are putting them into sound bites and making them into pretty graphics really have no idea how deep and sacred the teachings are. I see so much stuff that is ripped off. I see so many stories that are called, you know, that you could call the, you know, your speaker story. Everybody in the marketing business tells you, you need your sob speaker story.

Oh, the rags to riches story, right? Where you’re just, you’re on your knees…

Tell us how you were in pain, how to make yourself more relatable. And there’s lots of things that are getting blown up into these painful, dark night of the soul stories. And I just want to say, “you know what? I’m sorry. I don’t think that was a dark night. Who am I to judge? But I don’t think that was a dark night of your soul. That’s just called being in your 20s and getting through it.”

And if you … and you can still be a contribution and a voice of inspiration and you still have so much to offer if you haven’t suffered, if you haven’t been crucified as a spiritual leader and minister. You still have goodness to give to the world. It’s what you’re always saying. Somebody needs to hear the story that you’ve got to tell.

Yes. In the exact way and from your voice. Yeah. Keep going, sorry.

Stop dramatizing it and calling yourself a spiritual teacher. And yeah. And that’s ironic. I’m here being really judgmental about the dogma and at the same time, the same time, I’m really clear that you never know what somebody’s journey is. You don’t know if the guy who is picking up your garbage in the alley is actually living some really high vibration, Buddhist level life. You just don’t know. So I’m on my soapbox, but I have a pretty open heart about all of it too.

Well, let’s talk about the fact, because you wrote about this too. And you and I have had private conversations about this topic. And I think this is important to hear for every creative out there who makes stuff. And whether their particular craft is writing or design or music or art, I’ve heard you say sometimes you’ll look back at your own stuff and cringe. And like, “Did I really say that? Really? I need to sit down.”

And I will tell you that too, because that’s part of my struggle. Sometimes people say, “Oh, my gosh. Marie, what about your earlier stuff?” And I say I leave it up for the very reason that I want people who are just starting out and just starting to put their voice out into the world to not compare where they’re at right now with what we have going on at this point in the game 17 years in. And I can look at stuff I wrote or published, gosh, last week and go, “Really, Marie? You need some growth. Girl, you need some growth.”

I’m with you. You know, I want to burn everything I’ve ever written before like last week. Like … could we just start that? Could we do that … just like take it down? And, I mean, mostly the cringe factor is I’m just like, “Oh, that was a little harsh.” And, “Oh, can’t believe I didn’t mention,” you know.

And here’s where I’m at with it. I was doing the best I could do at the time. My intentions have always been good. Always approaching things from a place of I want to be expressed, I want to be loving, I want to be of service. And that may meet someone exactly where they are at the time.

I mean, some day this – I can see the day coming. Maybe 20 years from now I’m gonna renounce everything I ever wrote. And say “I was wrong, I was so wrong. It’s not about desire. It’s not about truth.” But yeah, and you know what? This is also part of being committed to being a maker and being of service and having the – what should I call – I don’t want to say the tough skin. I don’t like that phrase. But you know like the entrepreneurial maturity that you just keep going. You just say…


And I don’t — I think this is potentially useful for people to hear. So it’s like things are prosperous enough now, been at it long enough now, have a really A+ team now that we’ve got a certain kind of production value going on. And somebody asked me last week, “with your kind of numbers and when you get on and do a Facebook live, do you feel nervous? And it doesn’t even …” no. It doesn’t even occur to me. I’m totally stoked to be there, I feel really lit up, I always feel honored, and I don’t even think twice about it.

However, I never, almost never. Once in awhile, very rarely. I never watch my videos. I never listen to a podcast. I can hardly stand to see pictures of myself from speaking gigs. Because for two reasons. I just like I can’t believe I wore that … and I just have to move on. I know I’m gonna criticize what I said. I know I’m – then I’m gonna start thinking about market approval and audience appreciation. Don’t even want to go there because it hems me in from creating. So I just take a deep breath and I just say I’m gonna give ‘er tomorrow. It’s a nonprofit. So speaking of, let’s talk about the lies we fall for on the way to our truth. I really loved this part of the book. You say, “the lie of inadequacy says you were born defective, not good enough, flawed. The lie of authority says you need someone else to validate your worth and your choices. And the lie of affiliation says group think is good think.” Let’s talk about these lies because I think all of us have fallen for them and probably will again on our journeys.

I think these lies are like they’re in the water we drink. They’re in most advertising messages, they are – they infiltrate every organized religion, they seep through our educational system, it’s the heart of comparison. These are the sources of being really fucked up.

And the lie of inadequacy starts really young for some of us. There’s a right way and a wrong way. There’s a right answer and a wrong answer at school, at home, in church. There – it’s a generational thing. This has been going on for eons. “I, your mother, father want to look awesome so I’m going to brainwash you into how you should live.” And I’m all for brain – I mean, I’m brainwashing my kid into how I think he should live.

But basically it’s you’ve gotta be better. You were born probably a little behind the 8-ball. It’s all – it’s the striving. It’s the striving. It’s the striving. And I’m here to say anybody who is relating to this right now, the prayer is that you’re gonna find that you are more than adequate. You are substance, you are beauty, you are magnificence. And if you don’t believe yourself right now then there are times when you just have to believe another person. And call your friend, call your loving mother, or just believe Marie and I right now. You are substance, you are magnificent, you were born on the right side. Ecstasy is your birthright. All that.

The lie of authority is really profound and super perverse. And it’s this simple. So everybody just like hear this with an open mind so you can hear how ludicrous this is. It’s the notion that someone other than you who is not in your body, in your soul, in your life actually knows what is best for you. Somebody else knows what’s best for you. This is insane and absurd. And it doesn’t mean that you don’t turn to a guru or a friend or life coach. But at the end of the day, it’s your call. And the more you make that call with what your body is telling you and your spirit is telling you – and maybe even market status and standards – the stronger you get. The clearer your intuition gets, the more often you will hear your inner voice, the less anxiety you will have. All decisions, buck stops with you. Has to. Go get input. You make the final call.

Yes. Oh, I can say an amen to that and we are recording this on a Sunday, so it all works.

It all works.

It all works. But that for me is one of the biggest things. Because I always feel this deep sense of responsibility, you know, doing what we do with MarieTV and now with the Podcast. It’s like I will come across literally thousands and thousands of questions, and the way I’m wired, I’m always excited to offer ideas or resources or examples or frames of reference or perspectives that my hope will help someone find their truth.

I always like to talk about this because I feel like especially doing what we do in this world of self development and human potential and growth, the one thing I like to say it’s like, “look, I’m on the journey with you. I don’t have your answers. I’m just here hoping to put out a few ideas and concepts and questions so you can find yours.” And I think that that’s a really, really important thing that everyone needs to remember. It’s like they are the authority, the top authority, on their life. And they always have the answers within. That one’s one of my favorites.

Let’s talk about the live affiliation and this whole groupthink thing, because this is happening a lot right now. All over the place.

Just think high school.


Think high school in the new age movement. And the reason why I think this one is so important in this context of personal development and human potential is because this is the lie that is the hardest to see. It’s the most insidious. Because everything in this space rightfully or wrongfully so, some of it’s true, some of it isn’t, is positioned as freedom and self empowerment and self agency and making your own choices. And you are your own guru. Right? And that’s all awesome. And that’s the soapbox I’m on.

But some of it is darkly motivated. And a lot of that dark motivation, and by – let me define dark for a second. Dark is I’m gonna suck your light. Dark is I actually need your approval. Dark is I need you to believe in me, so I’m going to enroll you and entrain you and maybe hypnotize you to do that. And a great way to hypnotize people and to get them to not think for themselves happens in a group context. And we’ve – we’ve all been there. You have to do this. You have to do – it’s part of your initiation to waking up and being able to hear yourself is being in the group and your body is saying this totally creeps me out.


You feel that hot … you’re getting a little hot and, you know, flustered in the negative way. But everyone else is sharing. Everybody else is gonna stand up and give their deep, dark secrets in front of thousands of people on a microphone with a camera on. “I’m sex positive. I’m not sex negative. I’m not a prude. I’m gonna try this out. Because I want to be liberated, I wanna be” – and, you know what? Sometimes the most life affirming thing to do, the most liberating thing to do, is say I am not down with this. And you get to think I’m narrow minded, you can actually think I’m a prude, I’m not courageous, I’m unforgiving. You spiritual people can actually think I’m not spiritual, but I’m a no for this and I’m walking away. And that, that may be your – the very initiation that you went to the workshop for. That’s you standing up for yourself.

Yes. And you know me, momma. I am big on the no train. I mean, it’s a different context but, I will say, I’m very proud of myself because sometimes I have found myself in some of those circles. You know, you fall for it earlier in your life, or at least I did. But as time goes on and experience starts to build, sometimes I will find myself in these conversations. It’s like, “No, no, no. This is the way.” I’m like, “Nuh-uh. Not for this sister. Not for me. I’m going the opposite way.” Because that thing just doesn’t feel right.

Okay, let’s talk now about something else I loved, again, another highlight moment. This distinction between being a super human versus trying to be superhuman.

I’ll tell you, this is all about comparison. So thinking about this in context to our friends. Right? So it’s like Gabby. For anyone who doesn’t know, Gabby Bernstein is part of the posse. Gabby has gone without sugar for almost two years. And I’m just like how can you do that? You haven’t even had ketchup.

So it got me going like maybe I should go on this sugar cleanse and I should not – and then Kris Carr, another bestie, one of the world’s most devoted, educating vegans. So every time I open the fridge I feel guilty because I’m not a vegan. And then I have friends who are like meditating for hours at a time and I’m just like, “is my 20 minutes every morning of meditation good enough?”

And it just becomes this comparison. It’s like we’re all on our own journey, we have our own karma, our own dharma, and my most so-called enlightened moments have been my most human moments of just crying with all of you guys, just being friends. And having a cigarette and a green smoothie if I needed to.


And that my 20 minutes of meditation – I’m bringing all of myself, I’m doing the best I can as a mostly single mom, as a highly functioning entrepreneur. This is what I’ve got to give. And this is what’s heartbreaking about being in this space as well as a so called expert or a public personality is when somebody comes up and says, “You’re doing all this and I’m just doing this.” I say, “Oh my God. Don’t compare my what I say on stage about meditation to your prayer practice or to how you parent or…” you just have to do it in a way that feels like this is all the devotion – you’re giving it all your devotion in your language, in your form right now.

Yes. And I love that concept of just being like, a super human. Meaning you’re a fantastic human being with flaws, with flubs, who doesn’t wake up and do the same morning routine every single day and the same evening routine. Sometimes, D, I get questions and it breaks my heart. Some women, single moms, like, “Oh, my goodness. Between the morning routine and the evening routine and my full time job and trying to get this side hustle going and taking care of my kids, I am – I don’t even know how I’m supposed to get it all done.”

And I’m like ugh, please just let go. Let go of some of the pressure and the comparison. You don’t have to do 20 million things. If you find one little idea or one little concept that brings you some joy, that’s all you need. Let’s go from there. Let’s build on that simplicity.

And I think more of us need to talk about how hard it is, though, too. And they would feel more at ease.

Oh, it’s not easy. Are you kidding me?

It’s not easy. And so many of us, and especially in social media, make it look so easy because we’re capturing and we’re filtering and we’re promoting the best moments. So there needs to be transparency with all teachers. Yes.

And speaking of that, something that I believe is a perspective you and I both share is one on abundance and the fact that there is indeed enough of everything: love and money and food to go around. But what we have currently on our planet is a hoarding problem. I loved the line in the book where you said there really is enough pie for everyone, just some people are pigs and eating a whole lot of it.

Yeah. I think this is one of the most damaging notions with motivational speak. That if you can dream it you can achieve it. That – just go after your dreams and positive – oh I could rant on about how positive thinking is leading us astray.

Because very clearly if you have read the news recently, things are not even. The playing field called earth is not balanced for everybody. And I look at this from a really esoteric standpoint. I am in this for the long game. I think we live in many dimensions, many incarnations, and I leave a lot of room for the mystery of God and creation. I cannot explain it all.

So I think the soul will experience as much as it needs to experience to be whole, and that means you’re gonna go through some suffering. You’re gonna go through some fortune. You’re gonna go through despair and fulfilment.

Right now I am living an abundant life. I am a white, Canadian, female living in a democracy. Right there I am incredibly privileged. So my version of spirituality or my definition means that I am beholden, I am honor bound, to share my abundance and to not lay my motivational hype on people who are not in abundance. So, “I’m gonna share with you, I’m not gonna judge you about where you’re at, and I’m not gonna act like I have answers for your pain.”

Yeah. Well, amen to that one. I remember not too long ago someone asked me to be in a documentary about how entrepreneurship can save the world. And as I do with anything that we’re considering I was like, “I need to see a treatment, I need to see whatever you’ve got.” Because I’m not gonna say yes to anything unless I fully understand the context.

So they sent over a trailer and, Danielle, I almost like fell off my chair. Because there was just like clips of people saying, “If you believe it, you’re gonna make it happen. Doesn’t matter.” And then they show a friggin’ Ferrari racing around the Amalfi Coast in Italy. And I was like there’s no way in hell I am being a part of any of this. Because the world is not equal and not everyone won the ovarian lottery. And inequality and injustice is a very real thing and all of these words are bullshit. They’re bullshit.

And that’s not success. I’m really getting fatigued from seeing all of the material stuff connected to the how to succeed. Like, the how to’s are often really right on. “Yeah, do this step, this is this formula, positive thinking will take you pretty far.” And is this what it’s about? I don’t care if you just went public with your company. I want to know what you’re doing for the public. And yeah, we need more holistic images and stories of what success really is.

Yeah. And about what we can do to start to right some of the inequalities and, again, we could go on and on about this. But I’m moving on now to another part of the book, which was lovely. Another subtle but important distinction.

You’ve called yourself a student scientist on desire. Let’s talk about this distinction between detachment and being non-attached. You wrote, “As Michael Bethwick shared with me, detached is I’m not playing anymore. I’m taking my ball and I’m going home. Whereas non attached is, I’m playing full out but I am not attached to an outcome.”

Desire is my thing. I’ve looked at it from every possible angle. I’ve talked to every rabbi, every real deal spiritual teacher I could, and they all have the same message. You do have to want it with all your heart and you cannot be attached to getting it. And the extreme – is extreme the right word? Yeah.

The extreme approach to this is detachment where what happens is you say it’s okay if it doesn’t happen. You actually even detach yourself from your natural desires, the thing your heart and your body really wants. And there’s like this coldness to this. And my noticing around that detached approach is it’s often this coverup for the fear of not getting what you want. You don’t really want to melt into the desire because, “if it doesn’t happen I’ve just gotta suck it up.” So that’s where I think that comes from.

But non-attachment, so much more spacious and mature and flexible. So you’re doing two things. It’s really paradoxical. But this is, you know, all wisdom is paradoxical. Want it. Want it with every cell in your body. Believe that you deserve it. If you don’t think that you deserve it, you’re gonna create blockages to it coming your way. You will self sabotage things for sure.

So you believe that you’re deserving, you believe that in some dimension it already exists, you imagine it, you give it words, you give it color, and you trust that the universe is gonna help bring that to you. You’re gonna allow for that to happen. And you let it go. You give it up to whoever your higher power is, you move into that trust. That trust is sort of like the lubrication for things happening. And I think that trust is only possible with what I call deep positivity. So deep positivity is not the same as positive thinking necessarily. So this is where I mentioned earlier I think positive thinking has done us – has led us astray in some ways.

So a lot of motivational hype has you think positively about your vision board and what’s coming and you put it in affirmative tones. And you put it in the future tense. And yeah, I get that. That’s actually pretty valuable. But what happens when you don’t manifest what you’ve been positively thinking about. What’s on your bucket list or on your vision board and all that. Then so many of us, because human, we feel like we’re manifestation losers. Well, we didn’t do it right. Or is there a different science or could I just try harder. And that trying harder, as any metaphysician will tell you, just pushes it away. It’s like if you imagine a leaf just floating on water, the more you try to go to that leaf, you create motion, it goes away from you. You need to rest and trust for things to enter.

Deep positivity is like the bedrock of faith. It has you trust and believe that even if, everybody lean in or turn up the volume on this. Okay? … Even if you do not manifest what you want, you will be okay. You will still be supported, you will still be talented, you will still be loved. And loving, something better may come along. You will not fall apart if you do not get what’s on your vision board. I don’t think you can get more faithful than that.

I love it. For me, that has always been I think unarticulated the way that I move through life. Because I’m wired just to be hopeful and optimistic and trust. And I think it is such an important distinction. You know? “I am playing full out but I am not attached to this particular outcome.”

And it’s just such a joyful and playful way to go through life because then you’re open also to surprises and you’re open to the possibility that doing the work and being that open and vulnerable about what you desire may bring you something wholly different that you could’ve never expected and it might not even be that pleasurable at first. But for me, I’ve often seen in my life whenever I have disappointments or I have people close to me that have deep disappointments and find themselves in really difficult situations, I always think about movies.

And I always take the long view. You know? And it’s kind of “like, hey, this is just one scene.” Like, we’re kind of assuming that this is the end of the movie, but it’s not. Like if we just hang out for a little bit and see where this ride is gonna take us, it’s very likely that in whatever period of time, we’re gonna look back and go, “Oh, my goodness. That was just a drama point. That was just a pivot point. That was just something that needed to turn us in a new direction because what’s now come around the corner is so much deeper and richer and beyond anything we could’ve imagined.”

That’s the hero’s journey. That is the arc. It’s the arc of life. It’s just the way it is for humans. That’s it.

So let’s wrap on what I think is really the core concept of this book, which I wholeheartedly support, is this idea that the best self help is really self compassion.

Yeah. That’s it. That’s the heart, yeah. So simple. So profound. This has been in every mystical teaching for thousands of years, that the way to go is to be your own best friend. And the way I work with some people, just in conversation, is to sort of back them into this. It’s like if your friend showed up on your doorstep and she’d just been dumped or fired or got a diagnosis or she’s at that place where she just … she’s hit bottom. She is declaring her weariness. What would you do?

Every woman, every man … every person listening to this, knows exactly how to be in a loving response to that person. You know? You would listen tirelessly. You would give them the food – you would nourish in any way that they needed to be nourished. But we don’t do this with ourselves.

And for me, the most poignant moment with this was, and this is really – this is what put me on track to write White Hot Truth. I’m in the bathtub, I’m crying, I’m praying. I’m running out of deities to pray to. Like, another angel. I’m like is there an angel named Vera? Is there like, who is gonna help? Right? I’ve gone through everybody. Help me with this pain. Help me work through this, get over this. Even I don’t even know what exactly needs to be healed. And just like let out a sigh and I said something to myself that I have never, ever said to myself, which was this.

“You poor thing. You poor thing. Of course you’re not over this yet. Of course you’re stuck. Of course you’re crying again. Of course.” And I’d never said that to myself because I’m a tough cookie. Because I don’t – I have very little patience for victim mentality in anybody else, myself especially. But that is exactly, you know, after, once I recapitulated that, that’s exactly what I would say to a friend. “Of course this is hard. Of course.”

And that was like I would say my most friendly moment to myself. It really turned everything around. It’s like once I just went to that place of like ultimate compassion and friendship and loving, then it’s amazing. I could think clearly. And I could see the solution. And I could see what needed to happen. And then the next step came which is, you know, my big moment of standing in the mirror and asking myself if all the things I was doing to be well and healthy and liberated were actually helping me to be well and healthy and liberated. All of the yoga and the therapy and the shamans and the psychotherapy and the spin classes. All of it. Some of it was, some of it wasn’t.

So yeah, friendship. And the hardest time to be a friend, you know, because this is where you have to take that new age broad stroke, just like just love yourself. It’s so easy, right? I was in yoga class once, I’m in down dog, and the 20 something yoga teacher says, “When you’re in down dog just love yourself.” And I just wanted to like punch her. Like, it’s just not that simple, sweetheart. It’s when you can love yourself when you are hating yourself. It’s when you can apply acceptance when you just think, “I’m a loser. I don’t have the cliques. I’m still stuck in the same pattern. I’m dating the same kind of guy again. I’m still taking shit from my boss again. I was too harsh. I was too arrogant.”

And when you’re in those moments you need to be like, “You’re loving. You have good intentions. You are a compassionate person.” That’s the medicine and that is the power that everybody wants. It’s right there.

Danielle, I just want to congratulate you on another spectacular book. I loved White Hot Truth. I would highly recommend it for everyone listening. And I just want to tell you, I’m so thrilled and honored to call you my friend.

It’s mutual. Forleo, you’re the best. You are integrity in motion. Real deal. Thank you.

Now Danielle and I would love to hear from you. So I’ve got two questions for you today. Number one, what was the insight or the ah ha or the distinction or the piece of the conversation that meant the most to you and why?

And number two, if you’re gonna go along with our idea, and even experiment with it for a moment, that the best self help really is self compassion, how could you be more compassionate with yourself starting right now?

Now, as always, the best conversations happen over at the magical land of, so head on over there and leave a comment now. And once you’re there, if you’re not already, be sure to subscribe to our email list and become an MF Insider. You’ll get instant access to a fantastic little audio I created called How To Get Anything You Want. You’ll also get some exclusive content and personal updates from me that I just don’t share anywhere else.

So stay on your game and keep going for your dreams because the world needs that very special gift that only you have. Thank you so much for listening and we’ll catch you next time on the next episode of the MarieForleo Podcast.

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