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You have gifts to share with the world and my job is to help you get them out there.

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Sometimes a question comes in from a MarieTV fan that I practically jump out of my chair to answer. That’s how I felt about Natalie’s quandary regarding writing, day jobs and never giving up on your dreams.

Although she’s already a published writer and illustrator, she’s not yet earning a full-time living from her art. She’s hustling her butt off to promote her work and diligently setting goals, visualizing and doing all of the standard spiritual, self-help practices.

The problem? She’s near penniless.

Natalie shared that her purse strings are pulled tight as a violin, and yet — she’s resisting getting a day job. Why? Because she fears finding work outside of her art means sending a flashing neon-signal to The Universe that she’s given up on her creative dreams.

Getting a job never means that you’re giving up on your dream. Click To Tweet

That somehow, getting a day job means she’s not serious about pursuing her lifelong goal of being a professional writer and illustrator.

I have strong thoughts on the value of day jobs (or bridge jobs). If you’ve ever wondered if finding other work means that you’re giving up on your creative dreams, this episode is for you.

HEADS UP: In six years, this is the first time The Universe itself has made an appearance on MarieTV to weigh in on a question!  

As you might imagine, what The Universe has to say about writing, art and day jobs is worth listening to. You’ll also hear about the realities of writing and earning a living from two women who walk the talk, Elizabeth Gilbert and Cheryl Strayed.

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Check out this episode on The Marie Forleo Podcast

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DIVE DEEPER: Have you been skeptical about manifesting? Me, too. Until I got schooled on all things law of attraction. Here’s everything you need to know to get started: Manifesting 101: A Step-by-Step Guide with Gabby Bernstein

Once you’ve had a chance to watch, I’d love to know.

What’s your take on day jobs and creative dreams? Do you now or have you ever funded your creative dreams with other sources of income? Any lessons from the field that you can share to support Natalie?

Leave a comment below and let me know.

Remember, share as much detail as possible in your reply. Thousands of incredible souls come here each week for insight and inspiration and your story may help someone else find the courage to keep going.

Important: share your thoughts and ideas directly in the comments. Links to other posts, videos, etc. will be deleted as they come across as spammy.

Thank you so much for reading, watching and sharing your voice. You bring so much joy to my week.

With tons of love,


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  1. Katherine McDonald

    Thank you Natalie for bringing this up. I know for sure its a constant battle of mind games really that we play with ourselves. But yeah we got to do this thing called eat. I am currently going through the same thing. I took the plunge and got a day job again and now I am not stressed about money. Now its all about time mgmt to get my coaching in and market myself with a family …

    This song never ends so keep pushing girl!!!

    • Emily

      Mind Games- Exactly! I do that! Sometimes we Godify everything by putting words in the Universe’s mouth. The other day I was talking to a writer, who said she’s going out of business with her printing shop because God wants her to focus on her poetry. The problem is, she has a 15 year-old son and no savings. But she threw down the G word on me and I couldn’t think of how to respond. Duh! How did all this spiritual stuff suddenly become a mind game keeping me blocked from the OBVIOUS ANSWER? Get your sh$t together.

      • Emily

        Being a spiritual person shouldn’t make you an irrational person. That’s all I’m trying to say.

        • Thanks Emily. Your statement resonated with me. Being a spiritual person shouldn’t make you an irrational person. People sometimes just substitute the word Universe for God.

        • Hmmm, maybe I heard Natalie’s Q a little different than some of the comments and advice being given. I heard a woman who is hustling and working hard while doing internal work at the same time, which is awesome. I know she’s working her ass off b/c it is HARD to get a book published – it takes serious hustle. It doesn’t sound like she’s being overly spiritual or irrational to me…

          More asking for guidance b/c she’s doing everything she can and it’s not working as she’d hope. I’ve experienced that in my biz more than once! ?

          Natalie sounds like you are gifted and driven lovely. What long-term, empowered plan can you come up with that will support your gift, books, purpose and energy levels?

          Marketing a book can be a full time job – can you build an online biz that can support you to do both? Teach or coach in what you are good at, while then also marketing your books on a growing platform? Marie’s advice is spot on that it will take longer than you think … maybe come up with multiple income streams that could be flexible and fun for you.

          From one author to another who has multiple income streams and a long term plan of strategy and action – you’ve got this lovely!! I’m sending you love and strength woman! Xox

          • Emily

            Yeah, sorry! I didn’t mean to imply that Natalie was being irrational, in fact I was kind of lost in my own anecdote. I suppose I went a little wild on the comment board today, because it strikes me as hilarious that I get lost in “reading the signs of the Universe” to the point that it overrides common sense. Problems are easier to solve if I don’t worry about the convoluted messages of some disembodied Universe.

            Obviously, I needed that video too. 🙂 You rock Natalie! I totally identify.

          • Lora

            I like your advice to Natalie…”multiple income streams that could be flexible and fun for you.” I like your empathy for her creative heart.

          • absolutely- so much of life is not about getting exactly what you think you want, but developing a character of stellar beauty and strength…. when the time does comes, you are ready~ with all the love & light within you.

        • Agree with you Emily. “Being a spiritual person shouldn’t make you an irrational person”. thank you for that, I think that there is a lot of misundertsanding to the way we are perceiving the universe message. Marie did a fantastic job at describing it well for all of us.

          • Emily

            Thanks, this was a big one for me. Look, I’m a deeply spiritual person, but I noticed that when I feel vulnerable I get superstitious about the “messages from the Universe.” This video snapped me out of it, and helped me recognize the pattern. Which is good, because I’m a fairly new parent, and am easily emotionally charged, so it’s good to be a little less superstitious, starting NOW.

      • <3 For some of us it takes YEARS to learn this simple fact. 🙂 Fortunately this will save many a young person from falling into the trap and not build a career one tiny step at a time.

      • Its a catch-22; neither way really works. Natalie is in a better position than me. I have a day job and by the end of the week I am completely drained and exhausted. It leaves me little time and energy to give to my creative abilities. My universe revolves around my day job and I am still broke and can’t make ends meet. I have read a ton of “self-help” books and the same redundant message runs through them all. Action is the only thing that makes things happen; the “Universe” is not going to do anything for you. “Action is the last resource of those who know not how to dream.” ~Oscar Wilde.

    • Katherine my name is Katherine also. . Couldn’t have said it better myself. Spot on. Since i went back to work. My side business has flourished because I removed the stress factor from the equation. Marie you are amazing. You must be reading my mind girl because you answer every question that I ask myself. It’s been a constant battle for me to also succeed so very desperately but this was the wrong approach. I held so much anxiety inside and became obsessed with “making it” since I’ve backed off the desperation of it all. Magic started to happen.
      Natalie I feel you!! Do what you need to initially. I found the thought of having to work for some one else again made me physically ill. Once accepting this my soul is at peace inside..
      Good Luck
      Katherine Tzelepis

    • SO TRUE!! Eating is preeetty vital! And a day job is not the end.

      I’m a singer and now also a blogger. But a couple years ago I was childminding full time to pay the bills so my husband could write and create (we’re both creatives!!). And I did that for THREE AND A HALF YEARS!!!

      I still sang my way through it, kept my “chops” up and had some ridiculously long days (and nights)!!

      But we’ve come out the other side and that part of our journey was SO vital to my husband as an artist and myself as a creator. I have a lot more fight in me because I know what it took to get me through that time! And I’m more precious about what I’ve got to lose!

      Sometimes our difficult journeys help to shape us into the people we are supposed to be!

  2. I agree that taking a job doesn’t mean you’re giving up your dream or being less of an artist. I’m an artist myself and on disability. My purse string is just as tight right now, unable to pay all bills on time. I would take extra income if I could get it but I can’t take a regular job because of my physical limitations. I’m currently looking into new ways of making my art marketing finally work (been learning a lot and working hard at it for 6 years) as well as exploring other avenues where I can use my talents to get cash.

  3. Gail Barraco

    Most serious artists, authors, actors and other creative people have “real” jobs that pay the bills and contribute to their families. These jobs also provide their own muse in giving artists “fodder” for their creative expression.

  4. Hi Marie
    The question posed is too vague to give a conclusive answer. It would depend on what kind of day job Natalie or anyone would be obtaining, what the kind of salary will be and whether the job permits Natalie to earn enough to cover her bills and have the time and energy to fulfill her real goals of pursing creative dreams.
    As an occupational therapist, I would want to know more of what Natalie’s skills are and what kinds of jobs she would be searching for or what options she has.
    When a job requires many hours of unpaid work outside of the hours that are agreed upon, then that day time job does not help to meet ones goals.
    So, to answer your question, it depends on the options, on her situation, her health and energy level (remember, everyone is different and not all can hold down a day time job and then do other work at night) and would be important to seek work that enables her to fulfill her goals on all levels.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Definitely, Shoshanah. Those specifics are super important. But in general, Marie’s message is that taking a day job doesn’t automatically mean you’re giving up on your dreams!

      • I agree Kristin
        If you want it bad enough you will do whatever it takes.

    • Glynece

      Ausome post. This was very insightful for me also. Thank you so much for that post. I have wrestled with getting a day job for a couple of years now although I make money several ways. The consistent pay from a job seems to be very necessary but like you said depends on the duties & pay of the job.

    • Totally agree, Shoshanah. I’m in the process of looking for a day job to support my creative dream, but what I’m most afraid of is to not finding a job that allows me to have time to work on it. Being a past IT developer, I know that the most jobs in this field are made of lots of after work hours and that takes the time and energy I need to work in my business. But in the other side, this jobs are the most well payed I can find, which would help me a lot right now. So, I’m in a very difficult space right now. I can’t make a living from my dreams and I can’t find the right day job to help me make the living I dream.

      • Totally empathise with your conundrum. I had the same myself for a long time. The feelings are real.

        Maybe there’s a different solution? Something outside of those two options. Often our mind is limited by what we can see…if we ask for possibilities to exist and present themselves they will.

        I am looking for a new flat not having the deposit to pay. I thought I had two living options – new flat solo again, so I can work from home, or drastically reduce the cost by moving in with other people which could be distracting. It became apparent after talking to a friend that there’s a third option – my assumption that it’s right for me to create another proper settled long term home maybe isn’t useful right now. So I thought ok, how about short lets? I don’t mind moving every few months for a year say, since I travel a lot anyway and have become excellent at packing, knowing what I need, not being annoyed at not having everything I own at my fingertips etc. I don’t mind storing things at my parents’. Then I probably don’t have to pay a deposit -people are travelling or living abroad some of the time and just want rent or mortgage covered. Or even if they want a deposit, what’s to say I can’t negotiate on how much or whether I give it to them at all? What’s to say asking if I can do it deposit-free and provide some references say, won’t be accepted? Then I can live in the central part of the city I want!

        We can get things if we just ask (whilst focusing on the end result we want rather than being super wrapped up in how we ask). Those who ask get! Think of a time when you’ve done that and you’ll see it can be true.

        Just food for thought. Much love

    • Fay

      Oh my gosh, Shoshanah, thank you so much for this comment! I have always felt very guilty for not being able to go to a day job and then come home and do more work. I’m sapped, my energy is zero and everything screams “no”. What I have found is that I have had to commit to working at a day job for six months to a year, maybe even more, saving like crazy and then taking time off to do what I really want again. It’s not ideal, but it’s what has worked the best for me so far.
      Maybe the trick is finding a day job that is somewhat related?

    • Rebecca Saxon

      I have to agree with Shoshana. Maybe its because I also work in health care as she does. Health care is exhausting, and especially when you want to be doing something that is aligned with real values. For me Western Medicine is out of alignment with my present values. So some days I am too tired from a day job to work on my passion… no matter how much juice I have. If I push myself I can become ill and wired for sound and then not a pretty picture. So it would depend on the day job and still having time to and energy to work a business. I am doing both, and it is requiring me to be VERY PATIENT. And I have had to learn that, but it is better than losing my health or sanity by pushing beyond my healthy capacity.

    • Nina

      I agree. I currently have a full-time job, and my dislike for it saps my energy and my mood. Mentally and physically I feel drained, even when in theory I do have time to do other things. If you can find a job that earns you enough income, but which is bearable. and that you can LEAVE AT WORK at the end of the day, a day job is great. But if not, you will just find yourself overburdened, deflated, and uninspired.

  5. This REALLY resonated with me as I felt like Natalie’s email was written by moi! She must be my spirit animal…

    Something that you said long ago, Marie, has always stuck with me as I went out in search of a side-job to help support myself until my business was fully afoot.

    “Make isness your business.” That means bringing your full attention, love, and enthusiasm to whatever is happening right NOW. Whether it’s your own creative work, or slinging drinks for a paycheck.

    Today’s video is a wonderful and powerful reminder that there’s zero shame in doing what you gotta do to support yourself, so the universe can better deliver the rest. 🙂

    Thank you for this.

    • Make “isness your business” YES! You must have read Marie’s book Make Every Man Want You”

      It’s all about the isness, baby!

    • It resonates with me! Going back to corporate… Tough time but I also think it’s a blessing. No more stress (or at least much less!) Thank you Nathalie and Marie. You were my angels today.

      • Ana

        Marine, I also work for a corporate. Even though sometimes it is so overwhelming, I am so thankful to be able to provide for myself and support my family. Especially with the holidays around the corner.
        To you Natalie- make your own decision to earning an income. Add options to your life. After all it’s a men’s world and men work to provide and pursue their dreams.

    • Glynece

      Nice post. I appreciate this. Thanks.

    • Love this reply ????

  6. Marie, Marie! I so needed to hear this today!!! And on that note, I’ll say yes to that job offer I got yesterday. I always felt I was not being true to my dream if I wasn’t working in my field but now I know better. Thanks so much for the clarity.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      What great timing, Wyteria! Congrats on your job offer and hooray for clarity 🙂

  7. That was great to hear. It kind of reiterates keeping your goal insight while doing what you have to too get by.

  8. Yvonne

    Just what I needed to hear! Thank you!

  9. I feel like Natalie used my story and simply changed her name and city. I’m in this exact situation: a 29-year-old writer and artist being broke in Dallas, TX. Only difference is, I’ve also been freelancing as a web developer for the past five years. Unfortunately, that hasn’t even helped all that much. And I worry that getting a job will mean that not only am I giving the Universe the wrong signals, but that I won’t have the mental and creative energy to continue pursuing my writing and art if I spend it all on a job. I’ve also tried starting side hustles to help support myself (I’ve made tarot decks, written and published books, made soap, and created my own coffee syrup), but none of it ever pans out. I either end up too focused on the side hustle to actually write or make art, or I give up because I can’t make my products and branding as good as I think they should be in order to feel good about promoting them.

    So I’ve just been stuck all this time, trying to figure out how to move forward. This episode feels like it was made for me.

    Thank you.

    • Oh my goodness – just looked at the tarot cards on your site – they’re gorgeous! This has been a tough issue for me as well, but growing my freelancing enough to become a day job has really changed the direction I want to go with my writing and it enables me to be a mom, which I always wanted to be just as much as a writer. I feel like working and maintaining a quick morning writing routine sends a really great message to my daughter about how to holistically pursue your dreams. Now almost 29, I’m always impressed by people who learned this lesson earlier than me (like that mantra that Liz Gilbert had at 15!). Because when I was 22 I was writing 8 hours a day and it was completely impractical!

      • Emily

        I agree, I feel like a good couple of hours in the morning is golden, and then I spend a chunk of time making my money! Creativity needs space, I couldn’t write 8 hours either.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Adana, I’m so glad this episode resonates with you. It’s totally possible that getting a job will actually free up your creative energy to be even MORE creative on your artistic ventures, since you aren’t worried about creating enough income streams to get by. Good luck to you, I have no doubt you’ll find the perfect balance!

    • Wow wow Adana!
      Do u know how incredibly creative, talented & amazing u are?!! I mean…I really invite u to get present to how awesome u are…and that your wealth (like most of us) lies within your mind(set). U have something right now that most solo-preneurs don’t have and that is the ability to generate income from several streams by your own hand (ur own creations)…that’s a powerful gift my friend!!!!

      After reading your comments, I said “OMG this girl is amazing, she has the ability to gain wealth right now!” And from where I’m standing (outside looking in) what I see missing is: your way of being…u have all the ingredients working, just throw in this question and let the discovering begin: “Who am I right now” and who must I become in order to live my dream life in abundance as a fully self-expressed in demand NY Times best selling author, with sold-out speaking events, featured on Oprah’s Super Soul Sunday, traveling the globe and changing lives? What possibilities could u create from this space Adana?

      U are fabulous and your dream life is waiting on u. I’m confident u are going to make it girl! Sending u love, light, and breakthrough energy 🙂

  10. I’ve done a lot of things to support myself and my dream job of being an online personal trainer. I got a roommate, I cut way back on spending, I sold a lot of things I didn’t need (the more clutter you can get rid of the more space you create for the things you need) and I also coach part time. That part time coaching gig has actually landed me quite a few clients as well! So you never know…

  11. YES! Totally agree with this, Marie.
    Here’s how I’ve framed it for myself: I am my own Art Patron.
    A Patron pays the bills, makes it possible for the Artist to create. They often call the tune, too. So the best thing is to be your own Art Patron. And if you are intentional in this, it sends the message loud and clear that your art MATTERS.

    • Oh I love this Joanne! I’ve just taken on a part-time job to help pay the bills after almost a year of using my savings to fund my writing, and I was feeling a little down about it. I knew it ‘needed to be done’ but I wasn’t excited about it. Thinking of it as being my own Writing Patron has given me the boost I was needing. Thanks for sharing 🙂

    • That is a beautiful way of looking at it Joanne! It used to be that artists had to answer to their patrons – but being your own patrons means you get to do whatever you want!

    • Emily

      Love this too! I call myself my own venture capitalist.

    • Yeeaaahh!!! LOVE that analogy, Joanne! Thank you 🙂 x

    • Ashley

      I absolutely love this mindset! Will have to adopt that into the affirmations and visualizations and use as a constant reminder for motivation. Thank you!

    • I love that Joanne “I am my own Art Patron” I’m gonna take that on for myself and see what opens up. Thank u so much. Peace & blessings 🙂

  12. Two years ago I mad an agreement with the universe that if X amount of money could come into my bank account every month by way of my client work, then I would devote the rest of my energy to continuing to get well, enjoying my time freedom, and clearing up my creative channel to step more into who I am as an artist and teacher. I wrote this agreement down and not two weeks later did my main client call saying they wanted to up my retainer to EXACTLY the amount of money I wrote down.

    Knowing that money is coming every month is a huge relief as I experiment with my art and writing. I often get distracted, thinking that my art should be brining in the big bucks and it always helps me to remember what you quoted again from Elizabeth Gilbert in this video that I am here to support my art and not the other way around. So grateful for this reminder over breakfast today. Thank you Marie!

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Amazing story, Leah! Thank you so much for sharing it with us!

  13. Love this question and love the answer even more! After a crazy year so far, I’m right back in the job hunting scene, searching for a day job JUST so I can create without freaking out about money! Yay, day jobs! However, I am digging into jobs that coincide with my creative goals – so there’s an option too. As I interview, I’m digging into environments that will both foster my creativeness as well as bolster my resume. Maybe Natalie, you can grab a part time gig at a publisher or as a content writer for a small business. Still being creative all the while pulling in a little extra dough to sustain. Thanks, Marie for this little fun start to my morning!

    • I agree. I think looking at jobs that align or coincide with your dreams works! Like maybe teaching an art class at schools? It may bring you joy to influence the artistic minds of little pupils.

  14. I absolutely believe in supplementing my dream, purpose and art with anything (value aligned, legal and ethical ?) that will provide a sense of monetary peace.

    I’ve been where Natalie is, not knowing where the next cheque is coming from, relying on my husband until I decided to start diversifying with similar services and getting a part time job, which will benefit me in more ways than money only.

    I am determined to make it work so guess the universe is smiling now. Dreams + Action = Desired Achievements

    All the best Natalie

    Love & Light at the end of the tunnel

  15. AHHHH~~! As soon as I saw the title of this, I was like YES!

    I’d love to share a story about my recent experiences with day jobs & I hope it will resonate with a few souls here.

    SO, I have a part-time day job but it doesn’t pay well…at all. I’d love to hire a VA for my biz but I can’t even afford my current living expenses. My boyfriend is asking me to contribute but I can’t and it’s hurting our relationship. I’ve been on the job hunt for a full-time job for a few months now.

    About 2 months ago, this amazing job opportunity came up that was practically made for me. It perfectly combined my 2 areas of study/expertise (marketing & health). It paid WAY more than any other job that is available to someone fresh out of school like myself. It had AMAZING perks and my interview went fantastically. The owner of the gym was ready to offer me the job and bring me onboard with open arms, but then he gave me an ultimatum – give up your business or else you can’t work for us.

    I was devastated! I told him I’d think about it but as soon as I left the building I decided that I couldn’t take this dream job. I couldn’t just abandon my business!! Even if it doesn’t financially support me yet, I couldn’t just throw it away.

    I began to continue my search for a 9-5. I submitted dozens of resumes and got NO call backs. WTF? I graduated top of my class. I have experience & impressive references. Why doesn’t anyone wanna hire me?

    Well, guess what I found out? When I had been saving my Word.doc resumes as PDFs (I always submit as PDFs), my contact information was magically disappearing somewhere in translation. Nobody knew how to get ahold of me even if they WANTED to!

    PLUS ->> I’ve been vying for a position with the city because they pay the best, and all of the sudden they put on a hiring freeze!!

    PLUS ->> I had an amazing interview but they gave the job to a girl I graduated with who I used to tutor in class : – | what is going on.

    The universe REALLY doesn’t want me to have a 9-5 desk job I guess!

    Jeeze Louise.

    I’m trying to understand what the universe is telling me. My business is gaining momentum and I’m not sure if I should go balls-to-the-wall with it and screw the job hunt, OR if the universe wants me to get a serving job where I can spend less hours than a 9-5 but make the same cash. Because I do need to get paid…my finances are outta control!

    I will be listening intently for more signs. God works mysteriously – that’s for sure!!

    Thank you Marie for this episode! Loved it!


    • Maddie U Rock girl thanks for sharing your story! I am moved, touched and inspired by u. I’m currently experiencing the same thing. After my last contract position in February (8am-6pm) Mon-Fri I declared to myself, God/Universe & friends that I was done with survival jobs! That I would trust God, my process and focus on my gifts (acting/stand-up comedy & building my online business).

      Well, the good news is I’ve made it this far (February to today) without running back to the survival job life that I’m so used to. The bad news is I have no money my accounts are 0 hahaha 😀 although I’m working my butt off auditioning, studying my craft, building my business…my unemployment ended so I have no income, oh & by the way I’m being sued by a creditor LOL…
      What’s interesting is, I’m not freaking out like I normally would. I’m not running or hiding or crying, or being angry, or blaming others, or beating myself up..still questioning God though, but that’ll stop soon. I tell myself in every moment…all is well with my soul. I got myself here, I can get myself out with God’s help. And as Marie always says: “everything is figure-outable”

      Through my great relationships with recruiters, between August and October I’ve had several 9-5 jobs open up to me, 2 of them I was super psyched about and at the end upon acceptance…the employers pulled back…the jobs closed with the snap of a finger. I was like “really Universe, what’s going on here? I have bills to pay!” And then I heard a still small voice from within say to me: “remember when u said u wanted to know yourself as someone different…someone who trusts even when it doesn’t make sense to trust…someone who stops running to a job for money, someone who creates her own income. Remember when u said no more 9-5 jobs…”

      This inner reminder was powerful…I thought wow, I no longer just want to make this happen, I must make this happen.

      • Wow Sheilah! You are a courageous woman and I want to hear how this goes! It’s a fascinating story and I want more! Good Luck To You!! I’m rooting for you. xo katy

        • Katy thank u so much for your generous reply. I really appreciate your interest and confidence in me…another incentive to forge ahead in the spirit of ease, joy and the knowing that others on the planet are rooting for me.
          Thanks so much Katy and I would love to keep u updated on my progress.
          PS: thank u for spelling my name correctly 🙂

      • Woohoo!! You are brave girl!

        I get what you mean. I stopped freaking out about being in debt and having no money. I know very soon I’m going to make a ton with my business. I can feel the energy shifting !!

        Good for you and keep up the good work Sheila !!

        • Yaaaaaassss Maddie the atmosphere is shifting in your favor and u are the catalyst…an overflow is coming your way. I’m thrilled for u!!! And thanks for your kind reply my friend 🙂

      • Rebecca Saxon

        Thanks Sheilah! I appreciate your gusto! I have sort of the opposite story which is that I totally rely on and run back to my steady job. It pays the bills, and yes I am very grateful, but I am not thriving…. just surviving. So for me its about balancing things out and being patient. I only work 4 days per week, and am grateful, but those are some serious-ass-kicking days of intense life or death stuff and lots of legalities with my documentation where my mind has to be crisp and clear to dot my I’s and cross my T’s. On top of that I am constantly having to set boundaries and not be pushed to do more and more! That in itself takes a lot of energy, to keep saying “no” to what can’t be done in 8 hours. They know it but still keep pushing. Many in my field don’t mind giving it up for paycheck and approval. But I am trying to keep some energy left over for ME. (novel idea in healthcare, in my experience). So bravo on your commitment.

        I think all of us here, whether we take the day job or focus all our energy for our life purpose, we are all succeeding when we keep showing up for what we love and are passionate about giving to the world!

    • I think what you’re saying makes sense. I think you need to keep fully engaged in the present in order to be able to see and evaluate with a clear head all possibilities that come your way. I’m in a similar situation as you, though my business isn’t gaining momentum yet. But clearly you are being guided and learning along the way. Best of luck to you!

  16. As a small business owner, I constantly struggle with this issue. While I’m not an artist, I’m a Wedding Planner, my income isn’t sufficient to cover my monthly and business expenses. Currently, I use my degree as an elementary teacher to sub for additional income. I’m embarrassed because it’s like admitting that my business isn’t successful. Thank you Natalie for having the courage to ask the question that weighs heavy on my heart every day.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      You’re not alone, Helayne. No need to be embarrassed! It’s truly honorable to take work that helps you pay bills, keep a roof over your head, and eat WHILE building your business as well. You’re doing an incredible job!

    • Sue

      Helayne, I’m in the same situation, except I am an artist, a well known one in my town. I’m also totally broke, savings about gone, so I have to go back to using my degree to sub at the charter schools here. I keep feeling that if anybody finds out, they will think much less of me, because when those that hire me do read my resume they tell me I’m way over qualified to work as a sub in the schools. That obviously I couldn’t “make it” as a “real artist” to support myself.
      It’s been embarrassing and tough even getting the sub jobs because there are plenty in similar situations.
      I am pretty tired of comparing myself to successful artist I read about. And tired of being broke. I just have to keep going – this is a great article, thanks so much!!

    • Katy Balthazar

      Hi Halayne,
      I feel ya! The wedding business, which I am in as well, is very seasonable and leave many months pretty dry. I have a small vintage rental shop just outside of Ca. Say “hell” on Instagram @katybirds
      Best of luck! katy

    • Helayne,
      I totally get the embarrassment! I’m a Certified Passion Test Facilitator and Life Coach and I was barely scraping by. I finally took a part-time job last February, but I hardly ever mentioned it (didn’t even add it to my FB or LinkedIn profiles!) because I felt like I couldn’t DO that and still BE a life coach. It felt… failure-ish. But, as a single mom of 3, it still wasn’t providing. A few weeks ago, I was offered a full-time position with great pay and benefits. I had serious turmoil about giving up the flexibility working part-time has given me and I argued with myself over whether this meant I was giving up on my coaching biz, but I finally realized that the inability to pay for life (rent, bills, groceries, plus some activities of enjoyment for my kids and myself) was causing so much stress that it actually took away from my ability to be a great coach! I’ll likely have MORE energy to put into my business, even though I may have a little less time and flexibility. In fact, now that I think of it, it actually forces me to focus on workshops and group events, as opposed to one-on-one sessions, which is where I really shine and do the highest good anyway!

      Thank you for this episode, Marie!!! It was just another perfectly-timed confirmation from the Universe that I have made the right decision. You rock!

  17. R

    I took a day job–still stressed about money and now have very little time to work on my creative dream. It seems impossible to try and make a living with a creative dream. Taking a day job seemed like a huge compromise and my fears thus far are justified. It’s taken over all my time.

  18. Lynn

    Wonderful topic; I have been working for myself now for 8 years and have sometimes struggles to ‘make ends meet’, the way my week in planed right now means that I have Tues and Wed free to do marketing, promoting see clients etc. I do sometimes still have weeks where I do not earn a great deal of money and wonder if the universe has been giving me a sign to offer to take care of my grandson (I currently have him sleep over every Sun night and take care of him all day Mon; he goes to a childminder on Tues and Wed); my son and girlfriend aren’t happy with the childminder and are looking to change childminders after Christmas; I have thought about offering to look after him Tues and Wed and so will receive some income which will help towards my living costs. Watching this video now has made me think about this…… was i meant to watch the video with this question and offer to have my grandson? Or continue to affirm my abundance? Actually typing this out is helping me to see more clearly.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      I think whatever you decide will be the best thing for you, Lynn. So glad this episode gave you a chance to find a little bit of clarity!

  19. Jessica Feldman

    So I was just listening to a podcast that commented exactly on this subject, and it said that coming from a place of scarcity has a spillover effect onto everything else in your life and that you should absolutely get a job so you can pay the bills. However, what that job is, how much time and energy it sucks out of you, and your ability to still have energy to focus on your goal are all important factors to consider! Don’t get a job and then loose sight of your ultimate goal AND don’t get a job and treat it like its a b.s. waste of your time. Both are energy sucks and will ultimately derail you and deplete you energetically.

    • Eejee

      Thank you

    • Very wise. Be grateful for the job you have even if it’s not what you ultimately want to be doing…because it lets you move in the direction of what you want.

  20. Loved this episode. In high school, I was inspired by a teacher and, as a result, decided to be a teacher. In college, the teacher prep program was, quite frankly, awful. I spent the night before I was supposed to sign up for student teaching in tears. The next morning, I went to my advisor and moved from the college of education to the college of arts and science. It was the right decision…I got to take courses that enriched me and I enjoyed the rest of college.
    Sadly, I still felt the calling to be a teacher. I drifted for awhile, working on a congressional campaign, working for a congressman in D.C., and going to grad school — this time getting a degree in political science (well, look where I lived!)
    Then, I fell in love, married, and moved to another state where, once again, I took a job not remotely related to teaching. However, my passion for learning (and teaching) directed my volunteer work. At every opportunity, I volunteered to support public education. Got a promotion, moved to another role at the suggestion of my boss, and again continued to promote public education.
    Next, I got a call. A group of business and civic leaders were starting a nonprofit to improve public education. Might I be interested in interviewing for the job? Now, almost 26 years later, I am a teacher — of adults. I manage networks of educators and get to feed my passion every day. And, the rewards of working with such committed educators are immense!
    You never know when opportunities arise that let you feed your passion!

    • What a fabulous story!!! You just kept choosing in favor of your passions and look what showed up for you. Thank you for sharing!

  21. Getting a day job that allowed me a flexible schedule was the best decision I ever made for my creative pursuit! I became a real estate agent which has allowed me the financial freedom and control over my schedule to let my jewelry business flourish. I almost never need to set an alarm, I wake up each day and do work that I am passionate about. Before becoming a real estate agent I was so stuck in the cycle of wishing I could live off of my creative pursuit and getting hourly jobs just to pay the bills. It was miserable and it kept a lot of negative thoughts in my mind about not being good enough at my art to make a living. Now that I don’t feel like I have to make a living from my jewelry I have an amazing feeling of abundance which feeds my joy in creating. My jewelry business has doubled this year! I feel so lucky to have a day job that I am passionate about and has a completely flexible schedule. I love both of my jobs and I can’t wait to keep living this life and building both of these businesses!

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      This is so great to read, Jess! Thank you for sharing your own experience with us!

    • Congratulations on a beautifully passionate life Jess and thank u for sharing your story, very inspiring.

  22. Karen Thurman

    I have a part time job to keep me off dog food (although our dogs probably eat better than we do) while I get my photography and art gallery business going. It’s been two years and it may well be two, three, four more until I can even consider not having a part time “day” job.

  23. Natalie,
    Chin up! So many of us have been there. I am a composer, pianist and painter. I now have several day jobs that help support this vision, and here’s the key for me. I have day jobs that I really believe in. They are all creative jobs, just not me being on stage playing my work, so that’s a help. And while they do take energy away from my creating my own work, the lack of stress that I feel around money actually frees up more energy for creating, and it also helped me get out of a poverty tail spin.
    If you believe that we are energy beings, and I believe that we are, then all the affirmations in the world will not get you money for your work if your energy is screaming poverty! By taking day jobs, it may be easier for you to get money for your work just because you will stop feeling poor.
    Since your energetic output on this topic may have gained a tremendous amount of momentum, it may take some time for it to subside, but subside it will, once you eliminate the stress of poverty.
    There is no shame in taking a day job. It doesn’t make you less creative or less talented or less deserving or less anything! It’s just possible that once you open yourself to that idea, something wonderful will happen. In fact, I would encourage you to intend that wonderful things and wonderful people will come with that experience.
    Sending you a bucket full of good wishes and dream fulfillment!

  24. Wonderful motivation for today! The decision to be self-employed is never and easy one and the journey to financial success doesn’t come quickly. I started my business earlier this year and have maintained side jobs throughout. It’s hard, I work a LOT of hours and have very little time off, but I have the satisfaction of knowing I’m staying afloat financially. And guess what? Without that stress hanging over my head, I can focus on what I need to do to build my business without worrying about how I will pay my rent. Bottom line: there’s no shame in doing what you gotta do to get to where you want to be.

  25. Ivan Šestak

    Mnogo radim po cijele dane da platim svoje račune i prehranim skromno svoju obitelj. A sve ostale stvari i dobra dijela koja pružam drugima ljudima cijelog svijeta radim veoma naporno jer potrebitih ima veoma mnogo , bolesnih ,gladnih ,starijih i nemočnih i još mnogo drugih potrebitih ljudi i to sve jednostavno radim posve besplatno i ne pomiščjajuči na bilo kakovu zahvalu, naplatu ili bilo kakovu slavu Svoju Milost koju sam dobio ukazanjem Majke Božje ćije su milosti velike i nedokučive snage za čovijekov um nedostižno jednostavno samo dijelim osobama za koje ja osjetim da im je najpotrebnije no to me i veoma iscrpljuje ali me i Milost jako brzo oporavlja od svih dobrih dijela koje radim drugim poznatim i nepoznatim ljudima . Amen.

  26. Finally the UNIVERSE makes an appearance on Marie TV. Very FUN!

  27. Lups

    Awesome question and great answer as always Marie. I would only add that even one gets a day job, one must always find time to keep on creating. As an aspiring screenwriter (with a day time job), I try to dedicate the first hour of my day to my scripts. Else, I became so distracted with other “stuff” that I forget my “passion” and that makes me feel resentful against my day job (which is stupid as it pays the rent but not my heart). Cheers from Mexico!

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Great tip, Lups!

  28. Geoff Riddle

    Your day job gives you freedom from the pressure of bills. This freedom allows you to be more creative and gives you the energy to go after your dream with energy that would have otherwise been used to worry.

  29. Petra

    I work in a big company and I am of the opinion that sometimes we give ourselves the excuse that we can’t produce art because we don’t have time/we’re too busy working/we can’t lose focus from what matters right now.
    However, I’ve found recently that the hunger to produce art is too great if we cut ourselves off from that time to create and just reflect.
    As a teenager, I always thought that it was bad to have a day job and try to make something of your art at the same time. We get sold this idea in movies and books that if you quit your day job, your artistic dream will automatically come true for you.
    Instead, I think it makes sense to balance the two together, a day job, but also the time to do artistic things and create.
    Additionally, in some cases we do need the money to be able to finance our creative endeavors (for example, paying for a dance class or music lessons, or going to school to study something that will help us in the future).
    Thank you for opening up this discussion.

  30. Jekaterina

    After having a day job for almost three years in attempt to save up and switch to a freelancer, I realized that the more you earn, the more you spend, it’s never enough. When you come home after work all you want to do is relax rather than doing any more work. Any kind of creative pursuit is still a discipline and requires time, focus and decision-making. Money can be earned, while time can not.

  31. This was timely and I agree with many of the comments listed here. With an almost 2 year old, juggling my business, domestic life, taking care of her and then getting a job (that would pay for her care) seems overwhelming and draining. However, I see how it could alleviate alot of stress. One major question though is how does having a day job look to clients? Will they think you are successful and knowledgeable in your field if you aren’t able to support yourself with the business? I fear a percevied lack of experience and capability if I have another job simultaneously….

  32. Thank you so much Marie for addressing this important topic that so many who are looking to share their unique gifts with the world encounter at the beginning of their journey (often at the point of exhaustion after a lot of real effort)!

  33. My day job (personal chef) is related to my creative job (food writing/online teaching). It really helps me stay centered because 1. it brings in the money, 2. it is a different but related outlet so I am more stretched and keep growing, and 3. it keeps me from going a little crazy with the solitude of online creating LOL.

    • Right?! LOL.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Yes, Shelley! Great points, and love that you have a day job that relates to your creative job, too.

  34. This was such a helpful episode! Thank you Natalie and Marie! I’m beginning my business while maintaining my day job and going to school; it’s a lot and sometimes overwhelming, but when it’s time to pay bills each month and I know I’m covered I always feel like I’ve made the right choice. Thank you!

  35. This video came at just the right time. I’ve just taken a 5am to 9am unskilled job so I can pay my bills while I build my online business and it was a real dig in the pride. It’s very reassuring to hear that this is something that faces other people and that really, it’s just another part of getting what you want, even if it’s not the most glamorous bit! xx

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Exactly, Michelle! You’re not alone in this and it’s definitely part of getting what you want in this case. No shame 🙂

  36. Best Video Ever!
    Love it so much I am forwarding it to a friend right now that I know struggles with the same question. After reader Big Magic, I guess you can say I grew up and decided that I too, will not put the financial pressure on my gift or any partner. Natalie, I got a job and guess what? The universe sent me a paid part time gig (because it’s seriously too fun to call a job) to do what I would otherwise have done for myself as a full time photographer. It never occurred to me that I could actually get paid doing the same thing I love so much, I could do it for free. It was a paradigm shift of note and the best of both worlds that I am super grateful for.
    Best of luck to you girl. Xx

  37. Hi Nathalie, I just started a new day job. I recognize your struggle but was sick and tired of having no money. Then I realized that as long as I have no money there is no way I can realize my dream. So getting a day job is a very good idea. And maybe you can use your job and your insights into your writing. I wish you the best!

  38. Thanks, Marie! I always love your videos. This is a great question, and I think most people can relate to it. I do think it’s important to make sure the job is the right job – that it provides financially but also allows you to retain the energy needed to pursue your creative life. In addition, I was just watching this video on the SAG Foundation website about managing money for artists. A great tip was this: saving money to have a little cushion gives you the freedom of choice, and one of the speakers shared the strategy of keeping your money in your savings account (and different pools on an excel spreadsheet: i.e., special projects money, vacation money, savings money) and then giving yourself a paycheck into your checking account. Learning to save money efficiently so that it works for you is invaluable. I definitely recommend money management education for creatives. Less stress definitely frees you up to give all of yourself into what truly matters!

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      That’s a great tip, Amanda! Thank you for sharing it with us.

  39. The timing of this is so fortuitous that I have to comment. I just received word yesterday that I have been accepted for a job after 3 years of scraping and scrambling to make ends meet with my coaching business. I resisted for a long time, but recently I have been taking an aggressive stance on my finances to get rid of debt, and be able to breathe again. I too worried that taking a job with someone else would send a message that I don’t believe in myself or my business. Yet, I’m pretty sure I visualized this position – a work from home position assisting an amazing sales coach – um, flexibility and learning skills that could possibly advance my own business. Just the act of applying for this position allowed me to relax with my business and make some long overdue decisions like narrowing my target market, which I was always too afraid to do. It also took the stink of desperation off (or commission breath, if you will). My hope is that taking the pressure off will allow the energy to flow freely.

  40. Thank you! Excellent advice.

  41. This was literally, exactly, what I needed to hear this morning. Thank you! Good luck, Natalie!

  42. Hi. This is a really relevant question from Nathalie. I once thought like that and stressed out because of lack in the finances. Since I took assignments others than my clients in my clinic and my writing, flow has come into all of my doings. Besides, when you are an author, you have a lot of inspirations for your own writing by meeting new people a and other point of views.
    Inge, Copenhagen, DK

  43. Adrianna Masalta

    Wow! This was totally for me as well! Thank you Natalie for your awesome question. It’s a struggle I have been dealing with myself. I’m a part time Esthetician and building my clientele has been a tough one on top of being a single parent. So I’m in that same boat about getting another job to just support myself and have more than enough to live off of. Definitely having another means of income coming in is such a stress reliever, overall leaving me happier and able to sleep peacefully at night. Keep your head up!?

  44. I always felt that having a day job would ruin my dreams of having my photography pay the bills. Now that I have a day job and it does help pay the bills I feel that every day at the day job is a day further away from the dream. It’s a constant tug and pull between doing what I love and doing what I have to. There have been times when I couldn’t take a day off from the day job to take a photography job. I still haven’t given up on the dream but the reality that it is all just a dream sets in each day I walk into an office surrounded by the click clack of keys being pressed on the keyboard and by the four walls of a tiny cubicle I equate to a jail cell. I’m just waiting for my parole so I can start my real life.

    • I can relate to the feeling of my creative light being diminished by the wrong day job. My purpose is fitness and wellness, but I had taken another corporate job this year. I felt grey on my first day, but relieved that I could save money to live and help my family.
      That job ended and I’d like to devote myself 100% to building an in-person and online fitness studio and workshops. I’m scared about the income and would appreciate a flexible day job that wouldn’t zap all my energy. I guess I have to leave space to believe that that’s possible and that it’s not one or the other. I want to stay positive and believe that although I’ve tried for years to do this, maybe I need to look for different jobs, even if they don’t pay so much, so that my light can continue to glow.
      Thank you all for sharing your experiences. We need each other because only another Entreprenuer understands this life.
      Love to all,

  45. This message was so timely!! I’m in the process of creating another income stream to support my millinery business. By having the additional income, it lets me focus on doing exactly the pieces that I want rather than the pieces that will sell.

    • Veronica

      Wow! I really love that point that you made Tracy whereby you said that it “let’s me focus on doing exactly the pieces that I want rather than the pieces that will sell” that is so me I found out that I was constantly making jewellery that would sell because I needed the funds rather than creating more intricate items which are unusual and unique. Thanks for sharing that point very useful for me!

  46. I love that this came to me today! I finished a program to become a Health Coach last year and finding it to be really hard work to build my own business while running a household of 5! So, I have decided to substitute teach a couple times a week to bring in a little money, to feel like I’m doing my part in our household, while working on a group health coaching program. I figure the teaching will also help me with some confidence speaking in front of others as well, so I believe the 2 jobs will go hand in hand! Marie, it was great to have you backing up my thoughts today! It’s just what I needed to keep moving forward!

  47. I totally identify with this. When I started working at my first day (non-creative whatsoever) job after college, I knew it wasn’t what I wanted to do forever and I was resistant to taking a job I didn’t really want for a while, but I figured it would allow me to support myself while I figured out my passions and what I wanted to pursue creatively. Over the last three years, I’ve been cultivating my blogging, web design, and photography skills and laying a foundation for a business that I’m passionate about on the side of my day job. My day job is totally unrelated, but it’s relatively easy and the income is stable, so I can focus all my energy on my future business outside of work. It’s definitely not easy to juggle them both…lots of late nights and some weekends spent working, but I know the results will be worth the craziness. Plus I’m learning how to REALLY manage my time to make sure I get it all done…because time just seems to fly by faster and faster when you have a crazy schedule like this. I know that skill will be invaluable once I become a full time entrepreneur.


  48. This has been my quandary for YEARS!! Every time I sit at a desk job that pays the bills I feel like I’m wasting my time, selling out.. I am miserable! The universe gave me an opportunity to “re-do” my life and at 45, I am living in my moms basement, finishing school, working part-time, trying to pay things off and save money but I’m really struggling (financially and emotionally). I keep thinking I should throw in the towel and just get a secure paying job with benefits and move on. But I’m to creative, sitting in an office kills my spirit. After sitting at a J.O.B. all day, I’m too drained to consider doing anything else. What’s the balance? I don’t want to live in the basement with mom forever..
    ~ Cyndi

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Cyndi, that’s so tough! Have you thought about looking for a different day job? Maybe one that lights you up rather than makes you miserable? Perhaps that’s the balance instead of fully throwing in the towel just yet!

  49. Eejee

    Fair warning: didn’t read any comments nor watched the video yet. I’m preparing what’s my most important show of the year at my level for the moment.

    I still wanted to chime in considering I got pretty down to earth thought about it.

    In a nutshell: do like an addict and do whatever need to be done in order to *have your next fix*.

    In my case, the fix is a kiln full of finished glazed ceramic or clay art.

    Short of selling my soul to the devil or disrespect on my body or the one of another. IE, I won’t kill for it or pros.

    This is not my career, being artist is. So in spite of 20 + years experience at art AND being highly educated, I did wash floors, did work at laundry and fast food… and did endure the *look down* on me that came from others thinking I’m wasting my “talent” and “smartness” by accepting works that are considered too low to be done by a “white girl”… I’ve been told I lack of ambition BUT my bills gets paid, I have a roof over my head and wheels.

    I would prefer to earn a living from my art and be recognized or at least from my hard earned degrees… but it’s not the case at the moment.

    I can’t change people perception and preferences. Right now, whether I want it or not, people prefer paying 15$ for a latte and 5$ max for a cup to put it in, or better… get a disposable ones. And I still need my fix up until I find *my crowd” and to finance it.

    My only criteria is that I don’t accept jobs (for long anyway) that sucks my soul out or would ask me to sale my house and move. A kiln and the equipment to do my art are hard to move.

    So yeah, I’m still taking jobs WAY below my skills and talents… not that I don’t apply to ones that would better myself up, but while HR is figuring out if they should call me back to offer me an interview to perhaps get me on a probation in case their employees or customers don’t like dealing with my accent and the fact I’m English second language, I still need to pay the bills and have my *fix*.
    Speaking of which, I’ve really need to go. It’s stringing the Christmas ornaments day , now… and I have an interview for a daily during which I’m going to answer the questions as if I already made it. Not their business that I currently have to work day. AND nights. That’s not the future, that’s the soon to be past.

    I never stopped dreaming and it’s easier to dream if you do eat three meals a day.


  50. Jenny

    Well the Universe answered loud and clear today with this coming into my inbox. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Couldn’t have come at a better time.


    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      SO glad to hear that, Jenny.

  51. Dear Marie…you are definitely crazy, and I love it.
    Thank you for this episode.
    Now…Dear Mary and Nathalie, and ladies, and gentlemen,
    this episode, and this email in my inbox, just popped in as I AM struggling with a day job.
    Contrary to Nathalie, I don’t know yet what I’m supposed to do with my life (writing -I do a lot- teaching? coaching? helping others-definitely).
    And perhaps I have that in common with you, I don’t know, you tell me…but I had that feeling that having a day job would take away my creativity, my craziness.
    And….this is exactly what is happening today.
    I have that admin job, law related (which is my first degree), and it simply kills me.
    It kills me to be in an office, under incapable managers, and NOT communicating at all. It kills me so much that I have plunged into bulimia, and that, trust me, this is my warning.
    BUT, it kills me because it is not a job for me. Not because it is a day job.
    It made me realize how HAPPY/ JOYFUL I NEED to be.
    I think that if you have a talent in writing, then you can have a lot of fun, or find interest in doing anything that is related to it.
    What’s for you in writing? (doing research? letting go your foolishness? saying your word? helping? using your hands?) What is is for you? Because you can day work as a journalist, a communicator, a redactor, a corrector, or with children, who knows.
    Just find the link, the common point, and it will be smooth, I promise.
    I have the feeling you are being reluctant right now, because of something else.
    Just trust yourself. Give it a try, and if you don’t feel comfortable, move on.
    I find that looking for a day job (especially in France: this is quite impossible) is actually very scary. You have to show yourself to the world.
    Maybe that’s what the Universe is asking you to do, right now? Don’t you think?
    You all take care,

    • Doris

      Thank you for your comment Lilia! I’m in similar place as you in life – I’m just finishing my psychology studies and I wanted to do a lot of related work (volunteer) to be able to gain some skills. I also have some creative passions which may some day turn into something more serious. I took a full time job in HR administration in a corporation, because of the debt. I feel like I spent the money I earned to alleviate the pain of daily existence (eating out, clothes, anything to raise the low mood). I hated the atmosphere and I needed to resign because I felt like a huge wave of depression was coming. By the time I left, I felt so drained. I didn’t enjoy reading, meeting my friends, for a month I couldn’t think of one single thing I could enjoy. Now I took a decent rest and my creativity and passion is back again, but soon the money will wear out. I’m looking for a part time job, but there aren’t many available. Where I live, if you’re a young person without some really needed skills, you basically have to work full time in a stressful environment just to be able to pay off the bills. I have a lot of friends who used to have amazing passions. All of them work in corporations and few of them still keep on doing their thing. It’s extremely sad and I don’t want to follow that path. On the other hand, smaller job places usually pay the minimum wage, which in Krakow, Poland is enough to cover about half the cost of living on your own and I would very much like to move out from my parents. I’m not sure what direction to take right now. I know how having a daily job boosts creativity for some people but for me spending 10 hours in job and commuting just makes me slowly die.

      • Ela

        Lilia and Doris – Ladies I’m in a very similar position.
        After 7 years in HR in a corporate world I decided to follow my heart and what I truly want to do – on the one hand it’s coaching, helping people discover their strengths and true calling, on the other it’s helping people prepare for job interviews and create resumes that sell their skills and abilities in the best way. After leaving my day job I knew I’d need some side job for some steady-ish income and peace of mind. So, while working on my business idea, I teach English. I was soooo sure this is what I can do happily and without losing too much energy as I love English, I’m a qualified teacher and apparently, good at it (students’/clients’ opinion). However, I found myself in this position where I have English classes twice a week (am to pm), other 2 days I spend on preparing those lessons so there’s very little time left for my business (and life)…and it’s not like I’m earning enough to get by. That’s why recently I started to wonder whether I should get a regular job or not. Part-time job won’t pay the bills as Doris mentioned (I’m from Poland too 🙂 Wroclaw to be precise) but I’m afraid that a full-time job will leave me so tired that I won’t have enough energy to grow my business (meet clients, create content etc). I also know that going back to the corporate world will absolutely kill my vibe….I’d experienced it the hard way and that’s why I left. I wanted to do more of what makes me smile than what makes me cry. And I also know people who sacrificed their dreams for the sake of a salary…. :/
        So yes, I feel stuck too. I know that getting a regular job would be the wise move but the mere thought of it makes me want to run away and hide 😉 However, I agree with Marie here – having enough $$ to put food in your mouth, pay the bills and be able to go on short holiday is definitely more helpful to my creativity and optimism than trying to make ends meet ever will.

        I hope you Ladies will find your answers soon and make a decision which serves you best. If you’re interested in ex-changing opinions or experience, I’ll happily meet you on Skype for a chat 🙂


        • Ela

          Lilia and Doris – Ladies I’m in a very similar position.
          After 7 years in HR in a corporate world I decided to follow my heart and what I truly want to do – on the one hand it’s coaching, helping people discover their strengths and true calling, on the other it’s helping people prepare for job interviews and create resumes that sell their skills and abilities in the best way. After leaving my day job I knew I’d need some side job for some steady-ish income and peace of mind. So, while working on my business idea, I teach English. I was soooo sure this is what I can do happily and without losing too much energy as I love English, I’m a qualified teacher and apparently, good at it (students’/clients’ opinion). However, I found myself in this position where I have English classes twice a week (am to pm), other 2 days I spend on preparing those lessons so there’s very little time left for my business (and life)…and it’s not like I’m earning enough to get by. That’s why recently I started to wonder whether I should get a regular job or not. Part-time job won’t pay the bills as Doris mentioned (I’m from Poland too 🙂 Wroclaw to be precise) but I’m afraid that a full-time job will leave me so tired that I won’t have enough energy to grow my business (meet clients, create content etc). I also know that going back to the corporate world will absolutely kill my vibe….I’d experienced it the hard way and that’s why I left. I wanted to do more of what makes me smile than what makes me cry. And I also know people who sacrificed their dreams for the sake of a salary…. :/
          So yes, I feel stuck too. I know that getting a regular job would be the wise move but the mere thought of it makes me want to run away and hide 😉 However, I agree with Marie here – having enough $$ to put food in your mouth, pay the bills and be able to go on short holiday is definitely more helpful to my creativity and optimism than trying to make ends meet ever will.

          I hope you Ladies will find your answers soon and make a decision which serves you best. If you’re interested in ex-changing opinions or experience, I’ll happily meet you on Skype for a chat 🙂


  52. Pe

    Great timing!! This video is just what I needed to watch today!! Thanks a lot for all the great work you do Marie!! xx

  53. My art is energy healing. I’ve continuously wished for it to provide enough for me financially, so eventually, I could quit my day job! Sometimes I feel like my creative vibes go into my day job, and there’s nothing left over to give to the business I am creating. I am working my ass off and all the energy is going in the wrong place! That’s why I love, love, love the mantra you gave from Liz Gilbert, “I will never ask for you to provide for me financially, I will always provide for you.” That’s what I am essentially doing as I head to work from 8-5, now I just need to refocus my intention. I am so making a sign and taping it to my wall. Thanks!!!

  54. Such a great topic & question! Thank u Natalie & Marie 🙂
    I appreciate everyone’s point of view and here’s my take: as Marie noted, day jobs are a part of the journey of artists/entrepreneurs.
    I had to change my view of my day job & focus on how it supported my dreams and how thankful I was to have it. However, what happened with me as do with many artists and day jobs…I worked hard and lots of overtime and made a ton of money. I was able to pay off a lot of bills, buy a condo, help my family & friends, vacation, and take classes to support my artistic craft all from the overtime…the overtime created an extremely comfortable life…but I became burnt out, unfulfilled and my acting/comedy career suffered gravely. Even when I decided to cease the overtime and just work my regular hours I was still too drained emotionally, creatively & physically to pursue my artistry after work.
    I used to have a love-hate relationship with the 9-5 job concept for a while because I resisted…here’s what’s important. Your Well-being. You must effectively manage your well-being when living a double life: survival job – artistry/entrepreneur life. Create a powerful existence system and stick to it: excel sheet/calendar of daily activities (24 hr period), plan out a head all actions for your dream life, accountability partnerships, spiritual practice, self-care practice, etc. – live with intention daily – keep track of your success. I also recommend when you choose to get a day job, get something connected to your passion, something you enjoy, that’s a natural fit and finally just constantly choose gratitude for your income and remind yourself that the job supports your dreams.

  55. Right on, right on, right on! As Elizabeth Gilbert says in Big Magic, a lot of people murder their creativity by forcing it to be their only means of income generation. Hold your head high – get a job and take the pressure off yourself. No shame in having a job to pay the bills and give you the peace of mind to love, care for and nurture your creativity.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Totally agree, Dan!

  56. Oh, this message felt so good! A few months ago I got a damn day job. I’ve been building my biz since last year, but I was stressing, not making a consistent income yet & didn’t have enough to take courses or invest in resources to help me out with my true calling. SO I got a day job…& guess what? I’m not only paying the bills & feeling more relaxed, I’ve invested in some stuff that’s really helping me, as the CEO of my biz, build a foundation that will enable it to expand. I continue to focus on my intentions & all that jazz & remind myself often that the day job is temporary. It’s like a bridge to get me to where I am going. Much love to you, Natalie & thank you Marie!

  57. Wow. Love this video. Friendly wake-up call… Thanks Marie for your wisdom ADN the message from the Universe :-)!

  58. I am a fashion photographer in the DC area. Recently I had a photoshoot in NYC, spending the day in midtown Manhattan with a fantastic professional model. It was a great day, and we made some wonderful photos!

    I funded the entire project. The model is a full time professional model from Phoenix, so she needed to get paid. I needed a place to stay and one we could use as a home base for her to do makeup, hair, and wardrobe, so there was a hotel that had to be good and in a safe place. We needed dinner, so a working dinner was another expense. We covered an area extending 15 blocks, so there were cab fares to quickly and easily move from place to place. I arrived a day early to scout the area, and returned home the day after our shoot. The bill for all of this was considerable.

    I got great photos and excellent experience from this! It’s been my dream to be a fashion photographer, and now I’m there. It’s also been a dream to do this for a living. I’m not there, and perhaps never will be, but I’m working on it.

    I’m an engineer working in research and development. That finances my fashion photography. The NYC photoshoot would never have happened if I didn’t fund it myself. The photos I now have for my portfolio would never have been created if not for investing all of my time and money in this, and there was considerable time to be invested for this project. I couldn’t have done this without funding it myself. I say “myself”. I’m married with a family, so this is really my family funding this.

    The way for me to shoot photos that could go into Vogue or Elle is to do it. No one from either of those magazines is knocking on my door to help. “Hey! You look as if you could someday be a fashion photographer! Let us help you.” This is training. You learn. You do. You prove yourself. The day job, the current career, funds that training. In fact, the day job, the current career, enables that dream to live and become real.

    I’m not giving up on my dream. In fact I’m making it happen. I’m closer than I’ve ever been.

    In closing, Thank You, Marie! It’s through you and the inspirational people you present that have helped make this happen.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      That’s amazing, Graham. Love how you’re making it all work!

  59. She can opt for visiting job like visiting art teacher. I guarantee she will get tons of inspiration for her art and writing.

  60. Thanks Marie! The timing of this is really spot on for me and what I am trying to push through, blast through really. so this chick heard what you had to say (and the Universe too!) onward and upward! Thanks again!

  61. While I agree that getting a day job does not mean giving up on your dream, I would advise a bit of caution regarding the KIND of supplemental job/income you pursue.
    I WANT to be educating expectant parents about healthy pregnancy, but teaching live childbirth classes and prenatal classes wasn’t helping the family out enough, so I started a “day job” helping my husband manage his business. What started out as a way to help him get his business under control, help support the family by not needing to hire as many additional staff, and “bankroll” my healthy pregnancy business ideas has become entrapping. I feel stuck in a concentration camp. My responsibilities in my husband’s business have grown to the point that I rarely take a day off (this includes weekends- earlier this year I worked every day for about 10 weeks straight with 1 Sunday that I did no work on the company), and I am often back at work for an hour or 2 after making dinner at night. I keep trying to hand off responsibilities to other people and companies we hire, and it keeps not working.

    I am actually part owner now, so I should call it *our* business, but my heart is not in it. I hate pretty much every minute of my workday, and my creativity is shot. I am depressed, and I have a hard time learning about improving myself or the business because I always automatically think of how to apply it to my pregnancy education, and that depresses me again because I have no time to work on it. I would have quit this job 2 years ago if it were not my husband’s business…

    So my caution to Natalie and others looking at getting a day job is this: set boundaries. Make sure the job you are getting is going to be contained and leave you time to work on your passion and move that dream forward. No jobs that expect you to work 10 hour days for no overtime. Also make sure that you have an “out” – make sure you will be happy where you work, but don’t trap yourself by taking a job that you would not feel comfortable leaving if the situation stopped suiting you.

    • Melinda,
      I can relate! I hated my last job. Years ago, I would try to apply what I learned in big companies to my business, but like you, eventually it has the opposite effect. I would get frustrated wasting time, energy, and a long commute on something I didn’t care about.
      Setting boundaries with family though is probably the hardest thing to do. I do t want to give advice , but what if you hired a mentee who could take on your responsibilities? Maybe it would take away potential fears of your spouse that you’re the only one for the job.
      I wish you so much luck through this to keep your relationship strong and your passion alive. ?

      • Melinda

        Thank you for your reply, Arial. We have tried to hire a replacement for at least part of my job, but he made the hiring decision and it was a bad pick. We are hoping to try again shortly. In the meantime, I am trying to carve out a little time for my own business to keep my hopes up. 🙂

    • I read a book this year with a story a lot like yours, Melinda. “Find Your Strongest Life” by Marcus Buckingham. Hope you find it helpful. You deserve to dedicate your time to your dreams. 🙂

      • Melinda

        Thank you for taking the time to reply, Tania. I will check out the book. I wish you luck with pursuing your dreams as well!

  62. Oh Marie… I love you <3

  63. You do not have to quit your day job to pursue your art. There’s nothing romantic about a starving artist and starving is not fun. We all have the same amount of time in the day. How we chose to spend our time makes all the difference. I work full time. Teach yoga on Saturday mornings. Teach a Writing class on Friday mornings before I go to work. And I’m working on my second book of poetry. I crochet and paint, too. And I refuse to be penniless in the process.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      Yes, Peggy! Love it.

    • How to you do it? How do you make time for all? And how many hours you work on your day job? I just got speechless and I would love to learn more from you, Penny!

    • Nina

      That sounds great, Peggy. What is your full time job? I feel that if I had the kind of job I could leave at work at the end of the day, e.g. a receptionist or office assistant, then I would have the mental and physical energy to do my other projects. But as a commercial lawyer, my drained mind and body doesn’t allow me to do anything but work and duolingo (foreign language app).

      Then again, there are probably people who could juggle commercial law and my projects. People have different levels of energy.

  64. Erin

    Thank you so much for having the courage to ask this question out loud, Natalie! It is one that I am currently asking myself, and I am with you in the arena in figuring it out. Best of luck to you, and know that you are not alone.

    Thanks to Marie, as always, for bringing this amazing inspiration to your community. Much love!

  65. My only disagreement with this great episode is that the universe is a white male… I really don’t need one more white male (in the form of the universe) that I have to navigate in order to reach my business dreams…

  66. A great question, indeed! And one I’m sure most creative people have contemplated!

    I totally agree that the Universe may want you to have another source of income so you can stop stressing and create from joy and, as someone who is experience a state of transition in my career, there are still other things that have gone through my mind.

    1) The time spent on looking for that job can be frustrating if it doesn’t yield results right away. It can feel like wasted time. But I have chosen to see it not as just looking for a job but as finding other companies to potentially collaborate with in the future. I am increasing my scope of knowledge.

    2) Should I go for just anything or at least work towards something in my areas of interest and skill sets? There are many ways to be a writer, for example, that does not involved writing novels, which may be your true passion. And if you have a lot of education behind you, it can be hard to contemplate working at something that makes no use of that education.

    3) How much energy do you commit to that new position? I have often thought, “But if I take x job then when y happens and I have to travel for z what if they don’t give me the time off? Then the opportunity is lost. How do you keep the creativity the priority when you’re also committed to something else? That’s when those jobs that don’t require education come into play because they tend to have more flexibility.

    That being said, I wish Natalie much success and abundance and a joyous resolution to her situation!

  67. Not only did I think getting an “unrelated job” was taking me away from my goals, but it also got me nervous about not spending enough time on my passion. I use to think that I was “cheating” on my dreams, yet after realizing that we truly get what we want when we help ourselves, I can now be at ease with life. One quote that Marie stated, which I absolutely had to write down was that we must “marry [our goals/dreams] with real-life practicality”. I wish I had heard this years ago as I am just now realizing the importance of being able to support your creativity, financially and spiritually.

    Currently, i’m am working as a residential concierge at a high-rise apartment in Orlando, FL to support my love for writing, photography, and art. Even though i’m able to support myself through this role, I have my days where I get so down about having to work a job that has nothing to do with my real interests. To get through it, I just keep in mind that I won’t be working as a concierge forever and that every couple of weeks when I collect a paycheck, I am that much closer to my goals. I also remember that since my job is completely unrelated to what I really wanna do, I am able to leave work at work, and come home to fully immerse myself in my craft.

    I loved this weeks video especially because I think a lot of creatives should really take the time to see the value and importance of having a day/night job while pursuing what they truly love.

  68. Veronica

    I agree absolutely. I am in a similar situation whereby I thought that if I took on a day job it would mean I was giving up on my art. Luckily, I had a career before which I’m trying to get back into so that I can fund my art business and develop it the way I want and yes be able to pay the bills without penny pinching! Thanks for sharing this video at least I know there are other people in the same boat as myself.

    • Kristin - Team Forleo

      There are definitely people in the same boat, Veronica! You’re not alone 🙂

  69. Ivette Nieves

    Hi Marie
    I totally agree with you that if the dream isn’t paying the bills then you should get a day job. I also wanted to say that even though we (including me) know that others have struggled in the same field I just don’t want to hear that my expectations are unreasonable. Is it just me? As a massage therapist (I own my own business) I struggle so much… and I know others do or have also in my field but that just doesn’t console me…it makes me think I chose the wrong dream..this episode is so fitting to my situation at the moment. I’m weighing my i close my office and go to get a job since all I’m making is rent these days or do I stick it out and pray lol..I am a mother of 3 kids and have an amazing hardworking’s hard to apply this episode to me in a way because I’m not a writer..hmmm just still don’t know what the right move can I become better if I’m not doing it as much? As a writer you can continue as a therapist how can you?

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Hi Ivette!
      Making rent isn’t nothing so good for you for having achieved that so far. I can see how our episode this week doesn’t perfectly apply to your situation with your business underway and in a different field, but we hope it does give you the sense that you can both be practical and that you do have options for how you support yourself (and family) in the ways you need to — whether that’s hustling for more clients, raising your prices, getting a part-time job, or getting a full-time job.

      For you, your next steps and decision-making may have more to do with searching your heart and figuring out how much you love what you’re doing, how you can increase revenue and if it’s worth it for you to do so, and if you can get by as is or need additional income. These are things you’ll most likely know better than anyone.

      We have a few other MarieTV episodes that may be helpful with evaluating where you’re at:

      We also have many others on all kinds of topics, if you’d like to reach out to infoATmarieforleoDOTcom for more resources.

      If you haven’t yet grabbed a copy, I also highly recommend grabbing our free audio download on How To Get Anything You Want as it’s so helpful for setting goals that you love, and then taking concrete action towards making them happen. This could be hugely clarifying for you.

      I hope that helps, and thank you for watching!

  70. Casey

    Natalie! Thank you for this question! And MARIE!!!! THANK YOU for the answer! I just want to say – I have been listening to you for years and years, and I even wrote in to MarieTV once – but my question was muddled and convoluted and negative. I was so super scared. I was firmly believing in what Natalie write about – that if I did not support myself working as a full-time acupuncturist, then I was a total failure and disgrace to my teachers. Right now, I am working in community relations for a blood bank, and actually getting back to my earliest dream of being a writer. My medical education informs the way I care for myself and my loved ones, and it also informs my writing. But it might not ever pay the bills. And neither may writing, now that I have permission from The Universe to support my writing rather than the other way around. THANK YOU for your work, Marie. You are such a gift.


    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Casey, you’re so welcome! It means the world to us to know how much our work is helping you along your journey, and giving you permission to pursue your loves.

  71. This is an awesome post! You can work a full-time job and have dreams as well. The thing that I see in the blog is a need for a changed mindset. If anyone ever feels like they are giving up on their dreams because of a “day job” must evaluate how they approach their day. What works for me is that I see my day job as one of my clients. Although my dreams are different than what is demanded of me in the job, I place in my head that I have to go in thinking that they are one of my unique clients. During my lunch breaks, I take FULL advantage of working on my dreams to keep my day sane.

  72. Hi Marie! I love your videos and all that you do! I just wanted to jump in with my view on this episode. I must say that one side of me agrees with what Natalie is concerned about, while the other side agrees with your point of view. As a Health Coach, I am a big believer in the connection between our health & happiness and our job. We need to love our job, or find a job we love in order to promote health and happiness. If what we do is not in sync with who we are we don’t feel balanced. While I agree that in order to fulfill our dream we need to be stress free, so we can have a positive impact with our work, I also think that getting a job (outside of what we perceive as our passion) will not make us happy and on top of that, we will not have the time and energy to continue to focus on our passion. I feel like it’s a catch 22… Unless, of course, we find a way of making a job out of our passion.

  73. Elena

    hi, Marie!

    I’ve been watching your videos for such a long time and the funny thing is that they are allways coming to my mailbox just right in time, when i need them! Like this!!! You wont belive… I am in a similar situation with Natalie – apart from that i already make some income from my art – but not enough. By now i was so much tempted to just give up. But i can’t because creating my own art makes me feel that kind of “flow” experience that no other work could have ever give.
    And this is also the problem, here is why: although, i never felt that having a day job or being a freelance designer ( as i consider myself) would be a give up on my dreams. But feel that i simply just can’t work any more on any fixed job! I find out that it is because as an artist i have that type of incredible creative freedom that a fixed job can never give; so my inside motivation is equal to zero, when i want to jump back to anything fixed like doing a boring logo or website design etc. No motivation for those at all. But the same time i feel so bad that i dont have enough income and that means i must be a kinda “lazy, dreamy person” to work all day on may art career instead of looking after money to be able pay my bills on my own. I have financial help from my husband but is still so frustrating!
    Dear Marie, do you have any idea on how to overcome this frustration?
    Thank you so much for the opportunity for me to share this with you and also for your attention!

  74. The first year in my holistic health business Whole Life Elevation I didn’t have any other job. It was crazy stressful. After the first year I started another business freelance tutoring which basically helped me pay the bills, buy a car, and save some money. With money in the bank and less pressure to work on Whole Life Elevation, I felt more confident, and I was able to take some small risks that actually ended up to make a lot of money at once. I am a big supporter of part-time gigs to support your passion!

  75. Jen

    Thank you for this, Marie! I’m in this boat myself – I actually have 2.5 part time jobs aside from my writing, which is what I truly love and am working my butt off to change the world, one tiny blog post at a time. 🙂 Of course I feel sometimes that my “jobs” are taking away from the time I’d rather be spending writing and creating meaningful work, but then I remember that those jobs ARE meaningful because they make it possible for me to write without restriction and restraint. Awesome reminder, and I love Liz Gilbert’s book Big Magic where she talks about this. Thanks again!


    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Yes!! Good for you, Jen.

  76. This was exactly what I needed. I am trying to get a new job because the one I have, is not fulfilling nor teaching me anything. But I also want to make my website a career. I know that I won’t be able to do that for a while, and need the money for products, so I know I need to find a happy medium. I don’t want to be broke, in order to do what I love doing, but I also don’t want to be unhappy in my job, where I find my website is a gateway, and not a passion anymore. The universe does have a plan, and I’m letting the signs guide me.

  77. Thanks Marie! This was the perfect topic for me today. I’ve been struggling as a published author/coach and music teacher. I just recently received a knock on the door to return to full-time teaching in a school district. I have been freelancing it for so long in hopes of manifesting my deepest creative dreams, that I felt resistance like I was somehow betraying my dreams. Yet, I’ve felt deeply disempowered in my energy and vibration because I’m scraping by and people can feel my desperation. The neat thing is a full-time music teaching position just opened in January and the personnel director and her son were in one of my community music classes and thinks I may be the perfect person for the job. Thanks for the reminder that I am not giving up, just welcoming the universe’s support in the form of funds to expand my dream. Thanks a bunch! You are an inspiration.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Absolutely, Emily! How exciting 🙂

  78. Amanda

    I loved this video. I’m a writer working on my very first novel but my bills are paid by my job as a massage therapist. I’ve recently discovered that if I try to put pressure on myself to make my writing pay the bills, I get completely stressed out and don’t end up writing Anything (or at least anything good). It’s like I panic and freeze up like the proverbial deer in the headlights and probably with the same thoughts as that deer, thoughts like “oh my god! I’m not going to survive this!” It’s much healthier for me and my creativity if I take the pressure off with a day job.
    But I have to admit that I do sometimes feel guilty that I’m not putting the same passion into being a massage therapist as I am into being a writer.

  79. Andrew

    Some famous writers who never stopped working at their ‘day jobs’…
    * Virginia Woolf, founded and ran a publishing house.
    * T.S.Eliot wrote the “waste Land” while working at Lloyds bank, then worked for publishing house Faber & Faber.
    * Frank McCourt (Angela’s Ashes) spent his life teaching in NY City.
    * Frank Kafka worked at an insurance company.
    * William Carlos Williams was a doctor in Rutherford NJ his entire career.
    * Jorge Luis Borges was a librarian, eventually became the director of the Argentine National Library.
    * Wallace Stevens won a Pulitzer Prize, turned down a professorship at Harvard, and worked at Hartford Insurance company for 40 years.
    * Lewis Carroll was a mathematician, photographer and teacher.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Yes, that’s a pretty amazing list, Andrew.

  80. Did something happened to your leg, Marie? Looks like accident or something..

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      It looks like there was just a funky shadow with that angle, but thank you for the concern, Elena! 🙂

    • Deana

      I saw the same thing. It reminded me of the time I wiped out on the street while jogging. Marie’s a tough gal and I wish her speedy healing.

      • Deana

        Sorry. Didn’t see Chelsea’s reply as I was posting mine.

  81. Thank you Natalie and Marie for taking this subject and making this video. I am in your boat girl! I feel you and have been practicing as a nurse all the while I have been on this path of yoga/self-discovery/entrepreneurship. I would sink if I didn’t have my nursing job and it pays. Until I feel like I have carved out a clear path for financial reward I will need to continue to earn big $$ from my nursing career to support myself, my hobbies, and my 3 children. Thank the universe for the degree and the many people that I serve as a superyoginurse. I know I am making a difference everywhere I go. One day it will shift, I think. And if not, I have enjoyed this journey and having to know others are feeling the same pinch makes me feel connected and supported even more.

    • ang19861

      I have read what you wrote, and it’s good to know that others like your self sense the same. It’s taking what you love and having it where you love best. It’s being able to do what you love, but also being happy where you are doing that. Where I’m new to where I am living, working in health care my self, finding the right place and having access to pursue my trade/career in health care, in a way that supports positive aspects of the type of work in healthcare one does, seems a challenge when your new to a new city. It is out there the right environment that supports what one loves, just seems like a lot of red tape to step through until one finds such. Cheers.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Beautifully said, Heather. Love your grounded mindset and gratitude.

  82. Great topic Marie – love your energy and your authenticity!
    I have a slightly different perspective…with four decades of very successful sales careers behind me, I have just launched a Sales Training company – my passion is teaching and paying forward the knowledge that took me years to acquire and refine. I have reinvented myself multiple times, as I was supporting my husband’s career which involved moving to new geographies. With no area knowledge, contacts, etc., I went from 0 to 100 mph every time! In my current start up, I’ve moved from the east coast clear across the country to southern California (loving it!). I am walking my talk once again…pounding the pavement, shaking hands, getting in front of as many people as I can to let them ‘experience’ me. I am working full time to build this business – failure is not an option! I was once told by a mentor to acquire a little bit of debt – it would act as a motivator. I would add: leave yourself with no other options, no back door, no way out. It is that hunger that will drive you forward; if you want it badly enough, you will work harder when there are no other options, and likely find success just around the corner. The truth is if you want more, you have to do more to reach your goal…not distract from your goal and do something else.
    Please note: I write this because I read many posts from people applying your advice to their lives, not necessarily authors waiting for their books to take off…I can understand Natalie’s challenge as she completed her project. Unless she has another book(s) in her, taking a job until it takes off makes sense. For the rest of us…work harder – don’t wait for the world to knock on your door – that’s my message.

  83. ang19861

    The happy medium does exist right?? It’s finding and doing what you love in an area that supports what you believe in your trade, practice and vision of your work that you are passionate about. Sometimes I feel that one has to see all areas of it. The good, the really bad, the hard core of it, and something that is best suited where one can pursue their love of trade-/-career. I have now seen 3 areas of this, one of which I left because of well a new province I am living in that circumstances have brought me to (for which I’m very happy about ) and yet, and well the 2 opposite ends of my field, the really bad and the hard core, and yes the area and part that I love(back home). The big question and search now is, trying to find that area of work in my field in a new city again. It just often feels like it doesn’t exist here. I know it’s out there and it looks bad to only be at a place for so long but in your heart when you know it’s not the right area to pursue your trade or career in, finding that place where you can give the heart to your trade in a way that supports what you love doing just seems to take a lot longer to find. Patients is an art, for the field of work that I am in, one must have a whole lot of heart and soul, especially working with vulnerable populations of people. I know the universe won’t give you anything you can’t handle. My hope is where ever I am and whatever I do to help others that it does make a meaningful impact, change things for the better, the hope that people see the dedication provided despite obstacles, and that given all the care and determination one can give ; that at the end of the day I gave all that I am and did the best I can with what came before me. Cheers to all those looking to pursue a passion in the right place and area , given that all your heart and soul is in what your doing and that the right place and time will come to us all. x o

  84. Sonya Meyer Noguera

    Awesome to get this topic! This is a topic that hits hard with me.
    I have been struggling with this for a few years. I am self employed as a Manufacturer’s Rep. I earn a commission on the sales, however I am not making enough money. I set my self a goal this year and worked hard . However this has not increased my business. We are so stressed out financially!!! I used to develop new lines of product by visiting factories in China and Vietnam and bring them to market in Canada and USA. I really missed this as I am very creative and have won awards for innovative products. I decided to go to China and develop my own line. I will be bringing this market now however it will take time to receive money and it may not still be enough. I have been struggling within, DOes this mean I am giving up on my creative desire to have my own line of product? I am looking for consulting work, but I need to open the window to anything. This is also difficult at my age of 57.
    Watching your video this morning really hit home! I wish I could afford B-school!!!

    • Sue

      Sonya, I’m in a similar situation at the same age. I also decided to develop my own product line and feel it’s going to be a while before it can happen. If you have advice fro your experience on manufacturing new products I would appreciate it!

      • Sonya

        Hi Sue,
        It is comforting to know someone else is going through this as well.
        I have been to Asia many times and love working at the factory level. Making sure you have a factory that understands the demands of selling product in North America is important. Now I need to decide on a way to distribute the product line.
        I do need a day job to finance buying but like many of you have said that it is important also to find a day job that does not strip you of your creativity that you need for your passion. I am hoping to work on smaller projects that I quote on . I also believe that you need to contact people in your network – associations, groups, retail stores!!

        • Sue

          Thank you! I’ll take the advice on contacting more of those in similar product lines. Some will not share sources, I ‘m sure there are others who will.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Thank you for sharing about your journey, Sonya!

      We do offer scholarships to B-School, if you’re interested in joining us in 2017, so definitely stay tuned come February.

      • Sonya

        I would love to apply for a scholarship! Will look out for this!

        Sonya Meyer

      • Sue

        When there is an announcement for scholarships for the B-School I will also definitely be interested!

  85. I totally agree with your assessment. I am still in a struggle with my dream and my purpose. I do know going to my job is creating a slight irritation that I believe interrupts my creative process and my ability to take risks.

  86. MC

    I quit my full time job in February 2015 to pursue my dream full time. I had long commutes (roughly a little over an hour one way if no traffic) and my dream job requires training that I needed to take 1-2 weeks off couple times a year, so I decided to quite my job and gave it a try. I am now almost 3 years working my dream job. I think for the area that I live, my dream job is a lucrative side business, but is not going to evolve into a full time income any time soon. I started looking for full time positions 6 months ago and no luck at all.

  87. Stacee

    I think that if you do take a job make sure it is one that will still allow you the time and energy to pursue your creative goals. Also, a job that you enjoy and will provide for you so that it will eliminate the stress and distraction of hating it or having to work long hours to make enough money. There are so many things you can do right now where you can pick your own hours (like being an uber driver or working for a temp agency) where you can plan your days to make sure you get that creative time in.

  88. BIG MAGIC! Loved it, bought the book whilst listening to interview. I loved the Trickster and dance with inspiration; yet perhaps mostly loved befriending fear to quiet its voice. Thank you Marie and Elizabeth.

  89. Thank you Marie, and more so – thank you Natalie!! Asking your honest question blows open a big Taboo that many folks fear even mentioning (try broaching that subject with a creative friend you see struggling – it ain’t easy…). The irony when it comes to money-stuff is that if people have kids, or as in my case Cats to take care of – we do whatever we need to, to support and nourish our ‘families’. (it’s amazing the writing-fodder that comes from the variety of experiences of doing whatever you need to!)
    But if you’re single, flyin’ solo: how often do you consider yourself (which includes your creative-craft) worthy of doing whatever you need to, to support and nourish your life? I remember telling my friend that she had become much too good at stretchin-a-dollar: how we ‘show up’ creates our reality. Your image of Violin strings nails it (you’re obviously a good writer with images like that 🙂
    You are always and forever YOU, you will always create. Stop living in the limiting myth of the Either/Or syndrome (Either you create your art/Or you work a job). Screw that! And I think the underlying fear that perpetuates the either/or syndrome is: that we will lose our Art, and consequently ourselves. I’ve been down all the roads, and this just ain’t true!
    I am going to suggest a really wonderful, entertaining, uplifting website, look for: Badass Resume Company (Denver CO). Whether or not you want to develop a resume, or get a job; Read their Gazette. It has thoughtful articles about wherever you work, align it with your values and always be You – you don’t have to compromise.

    • ang19861

      I like that last line of what you wrote. ” Always be You – you don’t have to compromise”. Well put. The right people , who value the right things for what you believe in, will see what you do and how you give your love to the things you value and will uphold the good and positive things one brings to their field and career. An if at the end of the day you gave it your all no matter how things fall apart, you did your best and gave it your all, and sometimes one has to have a whole lot of faith in that to keep them going. An well, that is what keeps me moving.

      • thanks Ang, for expanding the sentiment. Patience goes a long way too…

  90. Jaron Banks

    Natalie, thanks for bringing up a great question!! I actually started my own coaching business a year ago and I had quit my job before to go all out for my dream. I was used to a high income and I quickly experienced the sting of no longer having that income. I know had my freedom to dedicate all of my time to my business and I had a new problem worrying about how I was going to pay my bills. After experiencing that new phase in my life, I quickly decided having the problem of juggling a job with creating my dream was way better than worrying if I was going to be able to pay my rent.
    I got a day job and made sure I got a job that was going to give me experience that would support my dream business I was building on the side. I am a year in now and these are some of the things I did for myself:
    1. I built up a “flip-out fund” so when I’ve had enough of the 9-5 and can’t take it anymore, I built it up on how much time it will buy me without earning any income and I keep adding to it.
    2. I’ve gotten creative in my job to see where I can test my ideas/skills from my dream, in my case personal coaching. I’ve now realized there is a huge demand in the workplace.
    3. I’m very protective of my time because I’m sharing it with my job, which has helped me “train” to be efficient and effective on someone elses dime.
    4. The “job” market is changing rapidly and there are a lot more options available now where you can work when you want on your own schedule. Also, there are a lot of people who would pay to have someone guide them through a stage you may have already been through, like for instance how to get started writing a book.

    I would pay for that, I have some book dreams myself. I’m just saying!!!
    Much success to you Natalie!!!

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      YES, Jaron! These are amazing insights and tips. Thank you so much for sharing them.

  91. After spending a career in corporate America and creating gowns for my friends and family on weekends and evenings, always dreaming of designing bridal gowns professionally, I “retired” and jumped in with both feet! I’ve never looked back with a desire to return to corporate America and it’s been really tough at times! I didn’t know the learning curve I was about to embark on and it drained my resources pretty quickly. The consumer touts “Made in America”, but in reality, they buy from H&M whenever possible.
    It takes an enormous amount of money to design and produce bridal gowns. So… it became a decision to move into my son’s basement, or get a job. After being rejected time after time, I finally landed on a relationship with a bridal shop to do their alterations. It’s extremely hard work, but it’s helping me “sharpen my saw” and it pays the bills. For the first time in a long time, I’ve been able to pay the rent and utilities AND pay down some debt. It feels GOOD! I’m also much more creative and opportunities have been coming in that I wouldn’t have dreamed of previously… It tells the Universe “Bring it on!” and the Universe responds in kind!

  92. Thank you Marie and Natalie, I have been toying with this for a few months now. I am 52, a single mom of an 11 year old, and having been working on building my new career as a Holistic Health and Fitness coach, after leaving a successful real career (which I no longer wanted to do working nights and weekends as a single mom). I saved money and had a plan in place, but as life will always do, many of those plans did not pan out. I believe in all my heart I am on the path of what I am meant to do, but I hate always feeling – knowing -all my savings are going out with nothing come in. It stresses me out. When I talk to other people about getting a day job to alleviate the stress, I hear over and over “you can’t have a plan B, it shows the Universe you are giving up on your plan A, you just need to…..(fill in the blank) to get your business off the ground”. Which stresses me out more because oftentimes that is equated to spending more money. Thanks for reminding me the universe helps those that help themselves! And for sharing the great stories which serve as such positive examples!

  93. I’ve been a professional actor since I was in my mid-20’s. And except for a couple of years of financial awesomeness, I **ALWAYS** had a day job. I knew that had to happen, and most of the semi-professional theatre companies in the towns I’ve lived in (Portland & Chicago) understood that and didn’t schedule rehearsals during the day. Because EVERY actor has a day job. Many have flexible gigs–yoga instructor, high end waiter, massage therapist, bartender, administrative temp–but I knew I needed health insurance, so I’ve always sought full-time employment.
    The only time that has been a problem was when I took a job that was so high-stress and high pressure that I didn’t have the energy to audition any more. And so I looked for an exit strategy for that job.
    I left full-time employment 3 years ago to build my own business. That has been a CRASHING failure. It really sucks to admit it, but I’ve learned so much about what works and what doesn’t for me that while I’d rather be financially stable, at least now I know what I still need to figure out. In the meantime, I’m putting my sole focus on finding full-time work again. It doesn’t mean I’m a failure at what I do, it means I just couldn’t learn fast enough to make being a business owner work this time around. (Which is why whatever job I take will give me the mental and emotional breathing space to still work on my business on the side.)
    And I think that gets at the heart of something important here that I’m not sure has been mentioned: You’re not a failure if you don’t make a living by following your passion. Just make sure your moneymaker (whatever it happens to be) allows for your passion to happen.

  94. I breathed a sigh of relief when I first heard someone say that it was ok to have a job AND work on my art. It was like one of those a-ha moments for me.

    I can’t NOT work because I have to feed my family. And in my head, I felt that I had to keep working, and as a result, keep being resentful that I couldn’t work on my art full-time.

    Like Liz Gilbert points out in Big Magic, no one has all the time in the world to work on their art. We have to make time for it. Sneak away and have an affair with it. So, although my art isn’t feeding my family, but only feeding my soul right now, I’m having an affair with it anyway. Because I HAVE to do it. 😉

    Love to you all. ~Kerri xo

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Beautifully said, Kerri. xoxo

  95. I definitely went through this about 6-7 years ago when starting my [resume] writing business. It’s not an either/or situation – either I do my art, or I settle for this other job. Look at the actions you need to take in order to get to your goal as stepping stones towards progress. Few people can up and quit their job, or maintain steady income when they’re just starting out. So I’ve always looked at those side or “interim” jobs as stepping stones towards something bigger, and part of the strategy to set myself up for success while I’m passionately involved in growing my creative brand on the side. Good luck!

  96. The world doesn’t need to be black and white—when I saw it that way, I constantly felt like I was failing…as if working for someone else nullified my own work and made me a failure. I have a full time job that is not mentally taxing for me, but it is challenging and is in a complementary industry to my business, so I get to learn and experiment in ways that benefit me. I personally know that I could not do a demanding full time job and keep up my business publishing food magazines for kids (yeah, I’m always chasing deadlines), but I can do what I do until I want to change it. I like paying my bills, saving for the future and building my life without the stress of making it through my business alone. I am sure that my business is my DNA—and that I’m not ready to stop yet. It took a while to get to this clarity and sureness, and it is what pushes me forward when I am tired. I work a job in service to my own goals, and that includes my business.

  97. Perfect timing. I have an interview this morning for a teaching position but I’ve had so much in the way of my music happening at the same time. I questioned whether I’m giving up on my dream by taking this new, demanding job. I guess we’all see how the interview goes. Thank you.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Good luck, Sonia!!

  98. Kirsten

    I am going for an interview tomorrow for a job outside my field and I was wondering the same thing! Thank you so much Nat and Marie for sharing this!

    PS: Love the universe’s appearance. 😉

    xx Much love.

  99. Does a day job meaning giving up your creative goals/dreams? My take from firsthand experience: maybe. I’m the author of 12 books, and have been a writer/editor for big publications. But I had to take a day job to put my kids through college—I was literally collecting and recycling aluminum cans to pay for textbooks. I’m still there six years later, but am doing my best to maintain my freelance work and squeeze in time for my creative “passion projects.” Unfortunately, it’s almost killing me physically. I work a lot of all-nighters, wrapping up my creative work after dawn, literally 10 minutes before heading to the office at my day job. Also, for naturally independent creative types, being in a cubicle 8 or more hours every day can seem soul-crushing, and can take a mental and psychological toll. This may leave you uninspired and unable to really nurture your creative side even when you aren’t at the day job. So while it can help alleviate some of the financial pressure, it can also have some downsides. I think trying to find some sort of balance is critical, and you also need to find ways to still nurture your creative side, so the daily grind of being in the office doesn’t snuff out your creative spark.

  100. I feel like I’m in the opposite situation. I’ve had a part-time job for almost 4 years while I’ve tried to sell my art and fill workshops and classes as a teacher. The longer I spend at this day job, the worse I feel – it’s not something that I care about, and it feels like I’m using it as a crutch instead of spreading my wings and devoting myself 100% to the work I really want to do. I also feel like I’ve been really wishy-washy about my goals – telling myself that ‘someday’ I would like to work for myself. I’ve decided that in 14 months I’m going to quit this job and make a go of doing this full time – I’m hoping that the mindset shift will help me hustle harder than I ever have before, and do the things I’ve been too scared to do. I know that I need to at least try – and if it doesn’t work out, there’s always more day jobs to be had!

  101. Libby Dougherty

    I know I am not alone, but it is scary how much this relates to me. I am a 25 year old creative professional, and I have been doing everything I can to support myself as a freelance worker for the last 2 years. I have gone through periods where i’m nannying, doing web design, creating web content (blog writing, etc.), and working in a dental office. I recently thought I had finally “made it.” I am working full time from home and have tons of freedom! But guess what. I’m still broke. I am in a ton of debt (student loans, eek), and I rely almost entirely on my fiancé’s income. I literally just decided this past weekend that it was time for me to start looking for a full time job with benefits. This video came at such a perfect time and has offered me such beautiful reassurance. I look forward to a future where I am financially supported and able to create without the stress of making an income. Thank you Marie and team!

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Libby, it really sounds like you’ve arrived at a stress-relieving path to still get you where you want to go — wonderful!

  102. dee

    Wow. The timing of this is incredible. Thank you THANK YOU!!! <3

  103. This is a topic that I think about on a daily basis, I am so glad it is being discussed! I’m a visual artist, and I have held more day jobs than I like to admit, and I often have an internal debate about whether or not I should keep my current day jobs (I have two). I think at the end of the day, having a day job allows one to pay one’s bills. Artists (of all disciplines) throughout time have held day jobs, some jobs being more informative on their careers than others. I think it is important to keep a day job that not only gets you money, but relates to your practice or challenges you in some way that you wouldn’t find on your own time. Being employed is not “selling yourself out”, unless you are actually ceasing to create your personal work. Only you are the judge of that.

  104. I Needed this in My Life right Now!

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      So glad to hear that, Tara!

  105. Yes! I wholeheartedly believe in getting a day job to support your creative ventures, especially in the beginning. I think that doing something in line with your interests and values is great, and allows you to operate at a higher vibration than when you’re constantly worried about money. Freedom is one of my core values, so my side jobs tend to be things I can do from home on my own time. It can still be a little stressful as I have to make the time and be committed to doing the work, even when no one’s there to see it getting done…But it allows me to focus on my bigger vision of supporting entrepreneurs in finding the courage to do what they love. Thank you for asking this question Natalie!

  106. Giovanna

    Hi Marie,
    I think this resonates for all creative types. Even those that are currently graduating high school and considering studying their craft in college. My daughter struggled with the idea of, “will my art make enough money for me to survive or should it just be a hobby?” and ” Will a degree in the arts and money and time spent studying it, prepare me for the work world if it doesn’t?” All valid questions and difficult scenario’s to work through with out the proper preparation, which I believe should start in high school. Valuable lesson here. And yes, I remember Liz Gilbert’s dedication to this topic in her book, “Big Magic” as well as your interview.
    On a side note…..really enjoyed seeing the humor in your interview today! I always look forward to that. Love when you and your crew add the funny stuff. 🙂

  107. Thanks for this! Since I started my intuitive business I have tutored Spanish, and done house sitting, dog sitting and kid sitting. Plus, I have another business that creates passive income every month.
    I have serious resistance to getting a job. It feels so suffocating. But having lots of these little occasional gigs on the side has really helped.

  108. Sara Scheller

    I can relate with Natalie! However, I’ve never given up the day job (night job, etc.). My biggest piece of advice is to never take a job or stay in a job that is sucking your energy and creativity just to pay the bills. Hey, you need the money but if you aren’t “feeling it”, and are working way to hard, you will have nothing left to give to your creative projects. I’ve also found ways to bring my creativity into my projects at my day J-O-B so that it isn’t necessarily that I’m doing more, I’m just that I’m doing the same thing in a different way. I use my primary job to fund all of my creative adventures and outlets which in turn gives me more life balance and makes more more passionate about my work as a whole and gives me a greater sense of overall purpose.

  109. I’m an illustrator. I primarily consider myself to be an illustrator, but I also sought and landed a Day Job to feed myself and my creative business. I won’t lie – there are days on the 9-5 where I feel I’m not being utilized and I’m spinning my wheels instead of working on what I really want to do, but I remind myself that the Day Job is a means to an end that will allow me to keep building my creative business and not have to take money out of it to sustain me until it can stand on its own. It just means I have to be diligent with the time I have left over for my work.

    If that makes me a fake artist in the eyes of some people, they’re more than happy to be my patron and sustain me while I pursue my craft. Otherwise, shutting up is completely free.

  110. Great dilemma for many of us. Here’s how I’ve managed it.
    I have been running my own dream job now for about six years. I have NEVER NOT had another source of income. I am in my studio (I’m an Ayurvedic Yoga Specialist) 3 days a week and the other 2 days I do other jobs.
    Here’s the trick though: the other jobs are all related and feeding into my dream job!
    It works like this: In addition to seeing clients 1:1, I also design make and sell bracelets that help people meditate on empowering thoughts so they can make their dreams happen. The bracelets are sold at stores where I do workshops. The workshops bring people to my studio.
    I also teach a course on Ayurveda to people becoming professional nutritional practitioners. See it? Yes! My students are a potential future sources of referrals.
    So, everything I’m doing is dovetailed to create a fairly steady stream of income. Modest, but steady!
    Good luck Natalie! And as usual, thanks Marie. I love you.

  111. Great conversation. Let’s stop making “jobs” evil. The world isn’t black and white–every job is not soul-sucking and every boss is not a bully. There are lots of ways to be creative, entrepreneurial, and (gasp) happy inside companies–you just have to get out of your head and out of your living room and start exploring. Thanks, Marie!
    Darcy Eikenberg, PCC

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Love it, Darcy.

  112. I’m a HUGE fan of Marie’s work! I LOVE all messages – today’s resonates on a different level… I question myself on the regular. I have been galavanting around the world for the last 2 years. I started coaching earlier this year and not yet consistent with clients. I side hustle making websites (no shame)… I often question jumping back into corporate. Just fix the mind that nothing is permanent. If a traditional pay check can support your dreams then why not… it’s just another tool right? Power to all the movers and shakers! 🙂

  113. M

    Marie, I believe YOU are my sign from the Universe. 🙂 I’m grappling with this very issue right now. On the heels of a job opportunity that would provide for my family in so many ways (and take so much stress off my husband and I) but…feeling like a failure that I couldn’t make my own business what I wanted it to be over the last four years. I’ve been waiting for some sign, some approval, some something…to tell me I’m doing the right thing, to keep going for my dreams and to keep believing. Thank you for always being in my corner!! With so much love and appreciation for you!

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      We’re so grateful to hear that, M — you’re very welcome. XO

  114. Hello fellow entrepreneurs with a day job… Wow this question and experiences certainly resonate with me. I took that plunge 5 years ago and struggled with the decision. What I found was over time ( and without any help from family or husband) I started to lose my passion and energy. My dream started to fade, but that was because I allowed it. Yes I was tired and stressed and didn’t find the extra time or money to keep it going. Let me tell you though the dream faded but didn’t disappear. Even though I didn’t do anything more on the magazine or website, I started to get inquiries from total strangers. How does that happen? Keep thinking about it, keeping the dream alive and work at until you get to where you want to be. I am not there yet, still need to generate more from the website and magazine but it will all work out in the end. Thanks and appreciation to all and everything.

  115. Virginia Reeves

    Everyone has options – try to choose a job that will not add stress to your life. You may want to look outside the ‘normal jobs for me’ arena. Consider a direction that will stimulate your mind and senses in a new way to up your creativity. Also remember that no job has to be looked at as long-term. You have the right to change anytime. Good luck to all in this situation. I’m grateful to be receiving retirement pay !

  116. When I opened Colonial Fiber Arts in 2007, I had a full time job. I would have never been able to open my brick and mortar without that income. For the 3 years I had that store, I NEVER took a salary!! My day job paycheck paid the paycheck of the one employee I had that was in the store while I was at my day job!! WHY? Because I made a lot more at the day job than if I had taken that hourly wage I paid my employee, and the day job had benefits like insurance! Also, that day job helped pay the shops’ bills many times, bought inventory and allowed me to not freak out when sales didn’t carry the overhead. The employee had a job (I was now an employer!) and I had a job, and the Shop had loving care all around. Yes, I would have loved being able to live off an income from the shop, but the shop was like an infant and needed me to provide for it while it grew.

  117. Two things jumped out at me:
    1) get back to JOYFUL writing and illustrating
    2) drop the STRESS that comes from demanding my art to pay the bills

    Thank you Marie (& the universe!) for the clarity!

  118. Natalie Dolph

    This was really great. I personally struggle with question all the time and I know I have sabotaged good jobs because I became worried that the job was interfering with my creative goals. Plus, it’s extra tough when you see so many people making money from their art. I’ve fallen into the “why not me?” head space a lot.

    What I’m currently striving for as a solution to the “starving artist” problem is finding balance between the time I spend at the day job (which really means pushing past to resistance to work on my art in my off time); looking for passive income; AND looking into asking for donations from Art Patrons. That’s kind of a lot, but I believe that with dedication and focus we can make anything happen.

    My biggest take-away from this: “Don’t expect your art to pay you.” Accepting that is a big mental shift and I feel a ton of resistance around that idea… but I also see how it’s very freeing.

    Thanks Marie!
    ~A different Natalie

  119. Tom Rivers

    As important as my artistic efforts are, I have come to realize that my LIFE is the biggest artwork project of them all. I have grown so much as a human being from participating in all the aspects of living that others do as well. I continue to write novels and produce paintings as well as musical projects. Meanwhile I have helped to raise a family and have had my own business – also supporting an important environmental project. This balancing act has proven to be the biggest creative challenge I ever face. Learning to do it all has made my life richer than any single type of artistic expression. Through this, I have come to believe that the universe wants more from me than my ego does!

    • Tom, what you say is spot on! I believe we all have much more in us if we let us be and do it, life is rich. Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom!

  120. Great episode Marie! However, the distraction of working (to pay bills) is so frustrating, when I’d rather be doing what I love (which is not yet profitable).

  121. Hi,
    I’ve been in the computer field for a very long time. I’m working on my second career finding a more artistic outlet as a Raw Food Chef. I find that life takes me to places everyday that I was not expecting, in an amazing way. The journey is not always as we picture it, it’s always as Spirit knows what will make us SING! I am funding my new business thru my current work. I don’t know if I’ll be able to completely leave what I’m doing, but the important thing is the JOURNEY and what I grow into on the way. Time limits on when we are successful in what we are doing right now just causes pain and limits our freedom to change with Spirits direction.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Yes!!! Love your insights and reminders, Teresa.

  122. Great conversation for everyone since we’re all creatives in some way. You know how Einstein worked in a patent office doing routine tasks, which supposedly allowed the rest of his brain capacity to create solutions to mysteries of the universe? That’s my approach. Take the job you can do mostly autopilot so that it demands less of you than a fully engaging job (unless you happen to land that job that allows for expansion of the creative skills you’d like to offer to the world). All my life, I’ve been a multi-passionate creator, musician, poet, writer, knitter, designer, and probably a lot more untapped creative potentials. Yet I’ve always worked 50-70 hours a week doing something that does not involve any of my creative pursuits, especially after I took on responsibility for supporting two people, not just myself. Would I rather be a woman who is supported fully financially by a man, if that would allow me all the time in the world to pursue my creativity? I’ve considered it, but after all the work I’d need to do on my body to attract the man who wants arm candy, heck no. I don’t want to live in someone else’s cage. I believe a mundane day job can be a godsend by allowing a woman to support herself (and/or children) while allowing that brilliant brain of hers to percolate the juicy juice she has to offer the world. Best of luck, Natalie! Check out my sister’s website I’ve linked to my name,if interested, because she has put together a deck of cards called Creative Constellation I am finding helpful to work with that asks the question “How are you creative?” So that you can know how to apply your strengths to anything you do in life.

  123. I am a Medium and spiritual counselor, so I KNOW this dilemma! I, too, struggled with that question but I have come to understand that my day job is very important. For one, I truly enjoy my corporate job because it enlists my analytical skills and left brain ways. I’m grateful that my day job supports me and that it allows me to offer spiritual consultations/readings to people for a very reasonable price! There are many Mediums, psychics and intuitive workers who live off their gifts, which is totally cool but it means their prices are higher. I can help those who can’t afford those prices because I support myself in others ways so I have the peace of mind to do my spiritual work. I’m also happy that I can bridge my spiritual work with my corporate world….that is a thing of beauty, I tell ya! Marie, you rock for offering a platform to voice these realities!

  124. Katy Balthazar

    Hello Marie,

    I have also struggled with this one. I have kept my very part-time job while building my vintage rental business here in northern California. As I only work about 10 hours a week it obviously doesn’t cover all the bill and I work hard to generate enough business from KatyBirds to cover the rest. During the slow season (off wedding season) I fall very short. The problem is that when I do get busy I need to be free to work long, hard hours getting an event together and during the off season I need to be working on every aspect of the business to ensure bookings for the future. Thus my problem. Working any more on a side job for bills takes away the valuable time I need to focus on my business to make it grow and handle jobs when they come in. Humm? It’s quite a balancing act and not easy. Just sharing so that other peeps in my situation know that they are not alone. I find that developing other streams of income in the same related field as my business has helped. I’ve expanded to sell outdated inventory on Etsy, I have developed a new skill in calligraphy and sign making for weddings and that has added a lot of income and I am developing unique wedding favors to sell as well on my Etsy store. It all take time to develop and I hold onto faith that it will pay off one day.

  125. Great message Marie, it agrees with what Gill Edwards writes in her great book ‘Living Magically’

  126. This is THE question and answer on my mind right now. I am in year 2 of building my writing and coaching practice “on the side” while managing an intense day job. What’s most on my mind now isn’t whether the day job is necessary (it is! and it is what allows me to support my creativity and to take the risks I need to take to grow my other businesses), what is on my mind most now is: what TYPE of day job best supports me in building my dream businesses on the side. Right now, I’m in a management/executive role that demands a lot of my weekday time, and a lot of my brain power, and leaves me feeling quite tired. I think I remember Liz Gilbert saying she deliberately chose day jobs that didn’t take up a lot of her brainpower, so that she had plenty to spare for her creative work! This is the scary part for me: abandoning a really “good” day job for a less brain-intense day job to create mental space for my creativity. Marie, I’d love to get your thoughts on this as a part B answer to the questions that Natalie posed.


  127. Marie, you are hilarious and spot on! I love your enthusiasm for this topic. I believed in the “jump and the universe will catch you” mindset for a long time. Now that my dream has been manifested through hard work and getting a job with an organization that has the resources needed to make that dream a reality, I believe in keeping my head in the stars while my feet stay on the ground. While running my own business I felt that getting a job would be settling or a failure, but it’s actually turned out to be the very thing that made my big dream possible.

  128. WOW… talk about timely universal messages (or I believe God) — I have a growing life coaching practice, but due to personal challenges which left me a single mama – I decide that it was ok to take my part-to-full now time job back again for benefits, which are critical with two kids under 7.
    I struggled with feeling like my coaching practice will never take flight, but in all actuality, I work harder because there is less time to mess around or second guess myself. So in a way.. taking back my job has spurned me into really fine tuning my coaching as breakneck speed (which honestly wasn’t happening before).
    It was a blessing.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Kate, it sounds like you have the perfect perspective on how things are unfolding, and all of this will only serve you in some way. I love hearing about how your job has made everything, including your coaching, pick up in speed too!

  129. Dear Marie, thank you for the great episode!
    And Natalie: I know your feeling … as a singer, it was not obvious to get enough work, so I m doing a training as a kindergarden teacher now (Mary Poppins knows how to sing!) ~ it has been and still is such an enriching and touching experience, eye wide opening and nourishing – and such a release! Why being narrow when you can be wide as well? (I discovered many loveable things which make my heart sing.)
    Besides this, I just read an intriguing article about innovation: Einstein’s most productive time was when he had a day job as official in Berne – in the evenings he would meet friends who were not physicists, they would drink wine, eat cheese and bread, read books, talk and amuse themselves. He himself wrote that this job freed him from having to be productive and that freedom would help this tiny fine plant of a researcher’s curiosity to grow. (his words!) Also Darwin was not biologist in the first place, but his passions were beetles, doves, rain worms and geology. All this qualities allowed him to see biology from a wider angle and find his theory of evolution. There are several other stories like this … and then: You never know who you will meet when you do a day job or what possibilities the universe will present you, maybe because you are a the right place at the right time or maybe because you are more relaxed and you get other resonances … Life is still a mystery after all, but it is short and too precious not to live fully.
    Wishing you all the best from the bottom of my heart,

  130. Tamara

    Sad that the universe is a man… I relate to a twinkle in the sky… Whispers of wisdom not male or female … and both …
    I love your work, honor your influence, ask you to get out of the box…

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Hi Tamara! Thank you for your feedback. The man pictured in the universe spoof part of our episode is a major part of our small MarieTV crew, and he’s always willing to play all kind of crazy parts on the MarieTV set (you’ve probably seen him lots of times now in various costumes). This was just another one of our silly visual moments on MarieTV, and not intended in any way to be an indication of who, what, or how the universe actually is.

      We have a lot of fun creating and filming our episodes, and this was a continuation of that fun and lightheartedness. Thank you for watching, and we hope you enjoyed the episode.

  131. Tim

    Hi Marie, Love your insights !
    As someone who has started multiple businesses in a variety of settings, i.e. FT job with a side hustle, run a new gig FT with no Job etc, I would say in addition to her financial situation, to also pay attention to the emotions associated with each decision as these can definetly derail you if your not aware of them. I’ve found personally that when I took a FT job it left little to no time/energy for my new venture in addition to time for family, hobbies etc. The best solution for me was to take a series of PT side hustles that helps “pay the bills while you learn new skills”! I’ve seen that when faced with this decision most people I know successful online chose this route as it let them FOCUS on their dream, have time for family & keep bills paid and their dreams came to fruition.

  132. Marie, big fat thanks for this. I had to have my butt kicked this year, when I started to fantasize, and secretly bank on, the great auditions I was getting. I’ve totally had the experience of feeling like I’m selling myself short by working day jobs.
    I have a few thoughts on this. First, multiple jobs are a great way to learn about how different people think and work. At least, this is what I tell myself, having worked as a caterer, busser, retail banker, telemarketer, office administrator, children’s program facilitator, senior caregiver, standardized patient and coffee slinger all in one lifetime! I have met SO many people, really wonderful people too. It’s not necessary to have worked a million different kinds of day jobs, mind you, (looking back, there’s value in building skills in one industry too!) but I certainly have gained a lot of perspective over the years having done so. Day jobs don’t only support you, they give you something to write about.
    Secondly, a job is a job. Jobs aren’t always that easy to find, and they can certainly be a pain in the butt, but they necessary, and ultimately empowering. Whenever I find myself despairing over the jobs I’ve worked, I remind myself that I do have some choice in the matter. Choice is a huge privilege and not everyone has it. It helps me to look around at people who immigrate to my country (Canada) to work, or those of us who mobility or health issues that make it more difficult to pick up any old job. I try to remind myself, when I’m feeling like I’ve sold myself short, that I have more choice than I probably think I do.
    That being said, I think it’s important to remember that your primary obligation is to your own creative work- its easy to get caught up in pigeonholing, labelling, comparing yourself to others, and other workplace dramas. Stay focused, respect yourself and try and skill-build with a purpose through your day jobs. At least, this is what I must tell myself, before I bus tables with people half my age in a few hours, which I will do with my whole heart and all the creative, entrepreneurial spirit I’ve got! Thanks for this video! Thanks Marie!

  133. This has been my big question for a while now… thank you for addressing it Marie!
    Love your videos <3

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      You’re so welcome, Ariane! Thank you for watching. 🙂

  134. I just recently left managing my business and the country I was living in because it did not give me enough money to fund my family. When I feel negative, I feel like a sellout. But I try to meditate my way out of it. And today, I just got a referral for a job from a friend we just met. And I just applied to it, right before I got this email video from you Marie. Maybe a coincidence. But it sure feels good to know that I am not the only one who has a day job just to make sure I can continue doing what I want to do … CrossFit.

    Thanks Marie!

  135. bob

    Sylvester Stallone chose to remain homeless rather than accept a check for $250,000 when it meant NOT starring in the movie script he wrote, “ROCKY” . So, there is a lot to be said for brutal diligence and raw tenacity. However, if Natalie is not willing to brave the hard jungle of cement City and live “off the land” erh, uh, “dumpster diving”, then perhaps the Universe would allow any means to reach the intended End.

  136. Dear Marie and Nathalie,

    Thanks for both Q & A!!
    Before, I always quit my job to start my business and lived on the brick-value/surplus of my real estate. Somehow it convinced me, that I was seriously starting up.
    Now, that I have deleoped The Star Path, I give speaches and take clients AND do this straight from my convinced heart – beside my teaching-refugees-job. One fuels the other. Both fuels me! Much love and Godspeed from Siri, DK

  137. Thank you for this episode Marie! I have been struggling with this very topic this week and have the paperwork for applying for a job on my desk! Thank you for the peace I now feel about getting a job before my dream is realized. I will not give up on my dream and in the meantime I will find ways to love the work I find myself doing every day.

  138. OMG this is coming literally as I just had the first day of my new part-time job to help support my dream. Like Natalie, I was refusing to get a job because I so believed that the universe would somehow provide me financial stability through this dream of mine and I still believe that it will but I not right now and that’s okay.

    At first, I felt like a failure for giving in and getting a part-time job to help me out but once I did, the stress just disappeared. I was able to look at my dream job with joy instead of desperation. And knowing that I have money coming in enables me to manifest so much faster because I’m in a mindset of abundance not scarcity.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Wonderful, Zabrina! Love how you’re looking to the new experience with joy. That’s so good.

  139. This was a very timely video Marie, thank you. I was just let go from my job and I’m going through this exact same debate with myself. My dream is to do Cybersecurity consulting and support. I decided to work on my dream just over a year ago and was fortunate to get a job I really liked, which only lasted 4 months.

    Now I’m at this very point of my life where I was asking this question “Do I need a job to follow up dream, or should I do my own business?” Which makes this video is very timely.

    I totally 100% agree that the Universe will give you exactly what you need as long as you are doing the right strategy which I will explain later. Here is a real world example of how I believe the universe keeps delivering for me. I started writing this response at 9:45am on Tuesday November 1, 2016 just after watching Marie’s video. I got interrupted by a phone call from a recruiter who specializes in recruiting for Cybersecurity positions. We had a great conversation and she might have a few positions she would like me to apply for.

    I believe the universe delivers in real time when you are doing the right actions, are in complete alignment and are open to receive.

    Thank you Marie for your great advice and sharing. Keep up the great work

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much for sharing, Brandon.

  140. Ankita

    Wow. This one on a day when i have been in two minds about my job just supporting my dream! Thanks marie for the clarity! Really helpful! But when does it stop being a job and takes over as a full time responsibility?!

  141. Kerri

    Thanks so much for addressing this Marie!! I’ve had several other coaches call these jobs “taxi job” or “boat job” .. the job that fills the financial gap and brings you closer to your end goal, desired state or Core Desired Feeling. One thing I realized is that I’ve been taking on the wrong kind of “side” jobs, where all my time gets taken up with the struggle of learning the new culture, techniques, and procedures of the new job. I tend to be a work-aholic spending every last minute at the job, ignoring the idea of work-life balance. Most work-life balance is a myth, but I feel it is a mental exercise of consciousness. I have to remember that when the going gets tough when I’m pursuing my CDF, I need to make sure I’m not hiding behind the “work” and take the time to acknowledge fears or resistance. Schedule time to achieve certain goals either of the taxi job, or goals of that passion (in Natalie’s case writing and illustrating). Having an accountability partner, or a business/life coach that asks good questions, listens and can “call you on” those subconscious/ subversive actions can be extremely helpful.

  142. Sara Danner Dukic

    As a former-ish opera & performing arts producer, I’ve worked with tons of young artists, almost all of whom had seemingly unrelated jobs that they did while honing their craft. Some were nannies, a lot were waiters, some bartended. Some were still in school, some were not. Those of us on the production team never EVER thought that someone with a day job wasn’t a serious artist. Quite the contrary – we knew they had a really strong work ethic that would spill over into their creative work with us. And honestly, I preferred to work with those artists who knew how to work. Not only were they reliable, but they were really appreciative and gracious because they knew what the alternatives are. They helped set the tone for the whole production. And don’t forget that real life experience feeds creativity. You might (or rather, you WILL) stumble onto something that you don’t get while alone in a studio or practice room. I worked a really strange mix of jobs–some of them great, some of them horrible (dishwashing & floor mopping, anyone?)–while I put myself through music school, and I wouldn’t change it for the world. All of those experiences formed who I am today – how I think, how I work, and how I treat those around me.

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      yes yes yes! Beautifully expressed, Sara.

  143. Marie’s take on this is exactly on target. While establishing my own private psychotherapy practice, I drive a taxicab 36 hours per week.

    I think the bigger struggle has been sustaining financially myself on my day job and keeping my day job from draining me of energy I need to put into my dream business. I am 49, have a few health problems, and don’t necessarily have the energy I had when I was 29. The taxicab job doesn’t pay that well, but the hours are fairly flexible and I enjoy the job. With my Master’s in Social Work, I could qualify for any number of social work jobs, but those tend to be high burnout jobs.

    I would like to hear how other people have navigated the balance between the energy needed to support themselves with side jobs and the energy needed to develop their dream work.

    • Judy Montel

      me too. tnx for asking

  144. Funnily enough, giving up my day job is in danger of killing my creative dreams. I wrote four published novels while working 9-5. Back then, writing was done in this dreamy early morning hours without the pressures of having to support myself by it. Once I started making money, I left the job behind but it was a big mistake. Want to know how many books I’ve published since then?? I have one unpublished collection of short stories and one novel that I’ve been writing for nearly a decade. Granted this book is bigger and more complex than previous but one thing it’s taught me is that I work best when the pressure’s off the writing. In fact, I’m currently looking for a day job so I can have “fun” with my passion again and finally finish my latest novel! Apparently, fun =publication = money for me, because that’s how it once was when I was working!

  145. My experience comes from the opposite side of the spectrum: wanting so badly to pursue an acting career but always thinking “there’s no way this could really be possible for me, so what’s the point in even taking it seriously?” – I’ve been told I have fear of success. I’ve been in a 9-5 job situation for about 7 years, only sometimes doing amateur acting stuff on the side part-time, and not taking it seriously enough to be consistent. I’ve used the type of work I’m in as an excuse/barrier to acting professionally. Finally I’m at a point where I’m fed up with settling for this reality. Living this way drains my spirit. Now for the first time in my life I’m taking real, concrete steps toward manifesting the professional acting career that’s waiting for me. It feels really good. It’s exciting to be in the space of not knowing HOW but just knowing, ya know? (It’s not our job to know how, anyway – that’s Big Magic’s job.) Things can change fast, when we are ready for it. Intuition is my guide.

  146. Yes and no. I’ve done day job and art but with day job I was so tired and stressed that I barely created anything. Life and work just got in the way.
    3 months ago I lost my job. I’m searching desperately and nothing but the silver lining I have been able to create so much art & work on social media connecting etc. the ideas have been flowing I’m constantly creating.
    Severance is done, savings are gone and now I really am penniless. I’m a single parent and have no choice but to work (if I ever find job).
    I think if you can survive without day job then do it. But if your type that can or needs both then that okay too.

  147. Sue

    This is probably one of THE BEST articles out there that has plenty of excellent support in the comments as well. It’s good to know I’m not alone in the struggle for income, balance with artistic pursuits. Motivates me, gives me courage to keep going.
    Great take aways for me:
    • there’s no shame in getting job that will actually Pay bills that isn’t the art dream
    • be your own Art Patron by getting those other jobs to support your dream
    • try to get a job that isn’t so mentally draining so you will have creative juice left
    • be brave – it takes courage to face the questions, stereotype opinions of starving artist
    • stop being paralyzed by fear and get moving, no matter how scarce jobs are!

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Thank you, Sue!

  148. Thank you Marie! This question applies to me 100%. I’m currently building my non-diet weight loss coaching business & working with private copywriting clients (I’ve always been a writer and LOVE it).

    I also work a side job and I often find myself too exhausted to do everything I want to do. Yes, I write a newsletter every week and create time for my current clients, but I feel like there’s so much more I could be doing to expand my business.

    I have a lot of trainings I’ve purchased that I haven’t had the time and/or energy to work through.

    I’m considering taking a two month sabbatical in Florida to reboot and dig into these trainings.

    My cost of living would be MUCH lower (I live in NYC) and I’m super lucky to have a rent-free living situation available down there – nothing sketchy, don’t worry. 😉

    I’m still questioning it though. Should I stay in NYC and keep hustling my ass off or take a breather? I’m super conflicted.

    I would be so grateful for anyone’s thoughts on this!

    Much love,

  149. Marie – I COMPLETELY agree with you on finding a job (or two) to finance your dreams. In today’s world, many of us juggle several jobs/small businesses to create the life we want. With patience & persistence and a clear vision that makes financial sense at any scale…it can happen! True story – I wanted to open my own wellness center for years. But I kept my corporate sales job to create the money I needed, and volunteered one night a week doing massage at a woman’s shelter while taking every lunch hour break to do even one small thing that put me around the type of environment and people I wanted to attract to open my wellness center (walk to a nearby garden, try a new raw food restaurant, go to a crystal shop, browse alternative healing books at the bookstore, etc) Three years later, I had the money to open doors and operate it for well over a year before I had to worry about financial matters. My wellness center was a thriving enterprise for 9 years. Now, I’m manifesting the next step and lovin’ life! PS – Signing up for your B-School was a GREAT investment for me to move onto the next chapter!

  150. Sarah

    Thanks for another great episode. I’m in a similar situation to your artist! I’m a 37 year old woman just starting a career in hairdressing. I know it will take a while to build my book, and my bank account. Question is, what do I do for income in between client appointments? I can’t go to another place to work a second job during salon hours…do I try to find work I can do remotely from my phone or a computer? That doesn’t seem to make sense to me, but perhaps I just don’t know what options in that realm are available. I’ve been using downtime to better my social media presence, watch online tutorials, and bounce ideas off of other successful stylists. This doesn’t pay the bills now, but I have faith it’ll pay off in the long run. Is faith enough to live on for the moment?!?

  151. Laurie King

    I have often thought the same question snd have struggled with following my passion and being able to live. I am a widow and have three children, ages 6, 10 and 11. My husband passed away 5 years ago and now the financial and emotional burden is on me. SO yes I have to work my day job to live, yes I have to work my day job for benefits, yes I have to work my day job to support my family…however I am trying to find other ways to fulfill my passion in other ways for now. I do hope to be able to move in a different direction someday and I do believe the Universe will provide. I believe every day that the Universe will bring me where I need to be. It is difficult some days and frustration does set in and it is at those times that I focus on where I want to be and know that I am headed in the right direction.

  152. Andrea Aldridge

    What a great episode! There’s a lot of skills that people acquire working for others and maybe the universe is trying to point Natalie in the direction of what she’ll need next before it happens. It takes a lot of know how and time in to be really good at self-employed. Greet every new challenge with what can I learn from this and you’re sailing. Remember what Tony Robbins says, when you know life is happening for you and not to you, the jig is up! (paraphrased)

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Absolutely love what you shared, Andrea.

  153. HimMarie and Team Forleo and readers, viewers, listeners
    Interesting one this – I’m wish Shoshana and others who are saying in teh vein of “it depends”.

    Ok, so I agree with Marie that having a day job doesn’t say to the Universe that you’re giving up on your creative dreams. Of course it doesn’t. And I think it’s hugely unfair and judgemental of the ‘spiritual’ leaders who try to make out that it does. Who needs to be beaten up so ….? We do more than enough of that to ourselves! 😉

    And I will add my voice to the chorus of those who say it depends on what kind of job you get and how much energy do you have. Marie, you seem to have so much energy and stamina. I am always amazed – you are extraordinary!

    You were also young when you started out – I think working bar jobs and teaching dance/fitness are great options for a young 20-something – not so tempting for someone over 40 as many people are when they get round to finally answering the call of their creative urges.

    Also, jobs that are part-time and flexible are hard to find – and are often not at all well paid. And not always especially fulfilling. So they can be a huge energy drain and time sucker.

    I understand the answer in principle – and I feel that the nuances of everyone’s individual circumstances mean that it doesn’t fit everyone comfortably. Some people, especially types who are highly sensitive to their environments, cannot cope with long hours of work even if/when it’s in service of their creative dreams. I do have a day job part-time. Not great pay and it means I have to make many compromises – but I couldn’t do what Marie did. I don’t have that kind of energy or stamina and I need space around my activities and quiet time to recharge my batteries.

    Getting a day job can be a necessity and doesn’t mean that your giving up on your creative dreams – but it can be a depressing prospect. I guess I’d say choose with care if you can and try to at least work with people who you like and who nourish your soul and creative flow in some way or other – bank balance and roof over your head and food in your belly are important – but if the day job makes you financially solvent but spiritually broken, the balance is skewed and your soul with feel screwed!

  154. I agree on the financial side. You have to eat off something and not having enough money to pay the rent doesn’t make you more creative. But I found that the day jobs I managed to get (I have been unemployed for long stretches so far, for Europe I am overqualified (I have a PhD) for the majority of jobs and they won’t take me), drain so much energy, I just don’t get to write any more. They were all 40+ hours a week jobs (the last I had had 60-80 hours per week), not well paid, and totally uncreative. So, I just couldn’t write anything, let alone publish a bit. Having a family with a kid made being creative on a day off impossible, too. So, I do get Nathalie’s fear of giving up on her dream, because, that’s what it was for me.
    I am creative now, I write a lot, published my first book – but I don’t have a day job and so I’m pennyless.
    Can you suggest any way in between?
    And just a side note: there are authors, that can live of their first book. Rowling for example. But, yes, that doesn’t happen very often.

  155. Kelly Saxon

    To be honest, I think I was in a similar situation. I had graduated out of architecture school at a time where the building industry was dead. With no one building, then no one was hiring an architect let alone someone fresh out of school. I used this time to find complementary work. I have always been interested in school design so I did work where I worked part time with children (to understand my client group), I got part time work with a contractor doing office work ( to understand the business of building) and I did research work for a local college ( to connect myself with people I eventually wanted to work with) All these experiences have served me well. All I can suggest to Natalie is what kind of stuff can she do to support her art. Is there part time work in library? Who is client group? Perhaps this a bad advice but once I realized that when I opened up my world and dreams it taught me things that only increased my passions and gave them more depth. What ever happen to the “worldly” person?

  156. Shirlene

    You are a WOMAN, your primary audience is WOMEN, your question came from a WOMAN, the 2 authors you mentioned are WOMEN…why in the heck did you choose to portray “Mama Universe” with a white guy???

  157. I make a point to thank God every day for the roof over my head and food on my plate, the opportunity to provide and also pursue my dream. I consider my day job my venture capital generator so it funds the pursuit of my dreams and pays the bills until I can transition into my dream as a full time adventure. Having a day job you enjoy makes the pursuit and transition to your dream a fun and a learning experience and a marketing opportunity too! Find joy in the journey!

  158. I am an Urban Planning Consulting, and have gone in an out of ‘day jobs’ throughout the last five years, whilst working away at designing and building my business. The ‘day job’ has the following positives for me:
    * routine – keeps me focused and gives me structure;
    *learning new systems/ and as I have worked in different states it is a ‘paid’ way that I can learn different legislation across the country;
    *Networking- meeting different people in different facets of my industry- potential clients; partners and sometimes even new streams of income for the business appear;
    *Socialisation- I get to have work friends!

    Sure, I need to be at a desk for 7-8 hours per day, but usually I have found contract jobs, that also allow work-from-home options; or flexible start finish times so I can still fit everything in!

    I find overall it nourishes me in a different way, and has a positive effect on my confidence, whilst adding to my skill set and expanding my network!
    Thanks Marie for this episode!

  159. Take the job.CREATE the DREAM.The niche is IN the “Becoming”! Until you ARE,you’re NOT. Without Freedom ,theirs No CHOICE ,with FREEDOM “choice”becomes an Illusion.

  160. Yes, I can definitely identify with Natalie on this. I work a full-time job right now averaging about 40 to 45 hours a week, but I use every penny of my discretionary income to fund my BIG dream. This keeps me motivated, I know what I’m doing is only temporary. That it’s ALL a part of my story. So I hustle hard during my off hours, use my days off to go into full-time entrepreneur mode! It’s not always easy, but I keep my mind focused on the BIG picture and make it work!

    Hope this helps!

    Peace and Love

    Trina J
    Pretty Motivated


    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Thanks, Jo — we agree it’s a good one 🙂

  162. Elizabeth

    Thank you Natalie for bringing this up. I currently have a day job that provides me a great deal of balance so that I have plenty of energy leftover to create in my side-gig. I had to adjust my approach to my day job in order to lessen the impact it had on my mental energy. Once I created those boundaries and communicated them with my supervisor, I felt the shift from my job taking all my focus, to it providing the stable foundation from which to build my own creative work. I can now have both the stability of a great job with the freedom to create and serve. Go for it!

  163. Rach

    Am I the only one who doesn’t believe this is the way? I feel that if you don’t manage to make money out of ‘your business’ at least a little in the second or at least the third year then it isn’t a business, it is a hobby. You either need to fund that hobby, by working or reevaluate your approach to make it really a fully functioning business that generates the income you need… and quick.

    • I think that totally depends on your business. If you’re an artist, you’re likely not doing it for the money to begin with. It’s more about finding a way to be able to spend time on it while still supporting yourself.

    • Judy Montel

      I’m not sure that having strict “hobby” and “business” categories helps. I prefer thinking of income streams and in that case, the lines between “day job” and “creative pursuit” begin to blur. I earn money translating, teaching violin, and am taking some time now to develop some additional classes and to see where that leads. The old-timey band I play in rarely makes much, but we get an occasional gig that is real money. Are we hobbyists? Professionals? I don’t really care. Playing regularly and accepting minimal fees for contra dances allows us to stay in (really) good shape when the paying gigs come along.

  164. The struggle is real, as they say. I just went back to my day job a couple days a week temporarily. I miss it, but the job is too hard on my body. I miss the confidence I get in being awesome at my tasks and knowing what to do in all areas. The lack of confidence that can rise when starting something new on your own is new to me and scary. I love photography and will have to keep searching and swimming if I want to succeed.. putting myself out there for The Universe to guide me.

  165. Jennifer

    Great response! All of my day jobs have provided security and support so I can be more joyful and relaxed at pursuing the things I love. And there are companies out there that are completely supportive of your creative endeavors because it brings new lenses and a fresh eye to how things are done. We need all different kinds of talent in workplaces! I think we sometimes hit an all-or-nothing mentality and we are the only ones that really lock ourselves into that thinking. If we think of God as kind and supportive, then He just is, and will always be. All of the sudden a job can become a great gift for things you have always wanted to accomplish! My day job affords me opportunities to meet new people and talk to them, learn about their views, wants, and needs. I get to have great discussions with people while we work on a project, and you can tackle interesting problems and learn valuable business lessons. It has given me the opportunity to serve in my community, which then lead to another opportunity to plan a huge community event and use all my creative juices and organizational skills, not to mention meet and work with interesting and talented people. A job can be fertile ground for networking as well as being a financial means to an end. Actually, today’s episode was a reminder to me of why I love having a day job in my life right now!

  166. Karen

    Thanks Marie! I have been seriously considering getting a day job over the last few weeks (only because of the current CRAZY increase in health insurance costs), which is making me feel like I’m being punished for being self-employed. I have really been struggling and sad feeling like I’d have to give up my dreams of growth for a job with benefits. I was honestly doing fine financially before this whole insurance thing rocked my world. But this post gave me renewed faith. Either way, it’s not giving up. I’m just curious if others are being affected like I am with the health insurance changes. I wish we could all bond together to create a company group rate! (ha, in my dreams 🙂

    • Andrea Dunlop

      Oh man, insurance as a freelancer is the WORST! Sometimes a job with benefits can be less stressful and time-consuming than a freelance gig, just saying. I feel like we all have to find the right balance.

  167. I LOVE this video. I’m a novelist and my lifelong dream true this year when my debut novel came out from Atria AND I sold my second book (coming 2018). Fortunately my day job has been working in book publishing for the last ten years, so I had ZERO expectation that this would mean I could write full time. I did end up going freelance for more flexibility but I’m still working full time. I found Elizabeth Gilbert’s BIG MAGIC to be a super helpful guide for creative living and it dispels many unhelpful myths that I hear from fellow authors all the time.

  168. Kathryn

    I have had the opportunity to save sufficient money to take a year off and focus on art, believing that it was the lack of time that was holding me back. Instead, I frittered away the time and my art practice came to a stop. I had too much time, too many ideas and somehow lost focus along the way. Sometimes a job is the framework that allows ideas to mull and form through random conversations and observations with colleagues and customers and often, the less time you have to get things done, the more focussed and productive you will be. It removes the luxury of overthinking ideas. There is also a Julia Cameron book: The Artist’s Way at Work which addresses the day job issue. I found it very helpful.

  169. Interestingly – once we give ourselves the permission to do and be who we are trying not to be, who we think it’s hard to be, and sad not to be…. things work out like we wish we did.

    Btw – we invest in MBAs over $100,000, with the hope of earning more money on the back end, and you can compare that to a few years of waitressing while doing what you do love. Re-frame! This is note to self, as much as to you Natalie.

  170. Amélie

    I was actually wondering this very question this morning. Thank you so much. Helps a lot!

    Marie, I love your work, you’re an amazing inspiration and a demonstration of authenticity and success. Thanks for being to awesome (and sharing it with the world!) 🙂

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Amélie, thank you so much for your kind words. We love having you tuning in.

  171. Thanks for the video. We sometimes just have to shift the stress, exactly. However, there’s the other side – not to get too deep into doing your daytime job. I don’t know much about the other countries, but, here, where I live, in the country called Belarus, we cannot survive if we only have one job. Most people have 2-3 jobs or work against the clock. Do we have time and energy to create? Not everyone. So it goes very slow. And I respect any creative person cos I know how much we pay for letting ourselves be creative.
    I’d like to share my story as an example. I dance tango and I’m experienced in stage directing, so I decided to make a tango-permormance. With the amount of work I had I only slept 4-5 hours, stopped going to the gym and ate junk food for 2 months. I worked with 8 people. In the end I got an amazing unique theatre piece, but due to the conflict which didn’t depend on me, our performance was cancelled just a week before the announced date. I feel terrible. But I know I’ll rest for a while and start something new, cos creativity is a “virus” you can’t fight off.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      I’m so sorry to hear your performance was canceled, Victoria! Especially after all the work you put into it. I hope it’ll be rescheduled soon. In the meantime we’ll be thinking of you and sending lots of love your way as you’re creating.

      • Thank you so much for your support and positive words!

  172. Day jobs! I’m 56 years old and have been working in the field of equine facilitated psycotherpy for 20 years. Just getting by. I finally took a job that was offered to me for enough money to pay down all my debt in one year. The stress will be leaving home for this time. The reward of living debt free far out weighs the burden I have put on myself. Running from one side of the world to the other just to get by. Your show just made it even more clear for me that I have made the correct choice.
    Thank you

  173. Maureen

    What happens when you hate your day job so much that it gives you anxiety and takes up space once reserved for art? I’m a singer/writer/actress and after I graduated from my undergrad in 2013 I started auditioning and working a day job, which was the obvious choice at the time. But 3 years later I’m so embroiled in my restaurant job that I feel like I’m replacing the fear of artistic “failure” with job stress (in an industry I don’t even want to be in, per se).

    Any advice is so appreciated!

    • Deana

      Been there. Done that. I’m an actress in LA and have had many day jobs. The last job I had paid very well and provided much needed health insurance but it was an all-consuming corporate black hole. My mental space, energy and time were being sucked up by the incessant bureaucracy and office politics. I was good at my job but I hated it, plus it had taken up so much space in my life that I had very little room for creativity like acting, auditioning, classes, writing, producing, etc. The last straw was when I was sitting through another mandatory meeting and had a panic attack. I had never had one before and I thought I was going to die. My heart was racing and all I could think was that I had to get out because “I didn’t belong there.” I quit shortly after. The bright spot in my day job nightmare was I walked away with enough money to finance my short film. Yay!
      Based on my experience, I’ll encourage you to examine your current employment choice and ask “Is this (still) serving me?” Also, it could be helpful to remember your long term goals. What do you really want to do and is this job helping or hindering that? Finally, a fellow artist once advised me that day jobs should never be precious. She said, “Never take a day job you’re not willing to quit.”
      I now consider day jobs to be disposable tools to support my art and I’m determined to never be consumed by one again, even if that means enduring the instability of constant job hunting.
      I wish you the best in your art, artist career and even day job success.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      I’m really sorry to hear you’re in such a stressful place, Maureen! That definitely sounds challenging, especially when you want so badly to create. I know anxiety is a really tough thing, so I wanted to share this MarieTV playlist in hopes it helps: There are some good stress-busting tips in there.

  174. Samira

    I want to become a published writer too. Amazing thing is I got most of the inspiring ideas when I am at my day job. So, I just pick the cell phone and text me those ideas in my 30 minutes break while having interesting conversations with my coworkers, then come home and work on them. So, interestingly enough, my job is not only supporting me financially, it is also inspiring me to do my dream job.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s fantastic, Samira! I’m really glad you’re in a place where you regularly get inspired ideas. Pretty cool!

  175. Jeannie

    In additional to creatives, anyone who has a seasonal business confronts the “day job” dilemma. For me the struggle was not only financial but also but the time away from the craft and business development. Time is such a precious commodity! What helped me is starting with a part time job that was only two days a week instead of one that was a few hours every day. This keeps things compartmentalized, from bleeding over one to the next.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really good tip, Jeannie! I can totally see how not having an every day part-time job is better when you have a business.

  176. Hi Marie,
    Thank you for this episode.
    I do feel that having a job while you are growing your business or product ventures helps to take the desperation out of it. I also started out quitting my job and taking on an adventure of starting a business almost 10 years ago. While I was growing my business, having babies and raising children, I did have to take jobs here and there. I did have this exact fear that it would take a way from my passion to pursue my business ventures. What I found is that when I had a job, and had a steady income, it actually propelled me to grow my business even more for a few reasons. One I had financial means to provide for my family and invest in my business, and second, working for someone only motivated me to continue to grow my business so that I could work for myself. Being a mother of three, it was also nice to be able to take a paid sick day when I needed one to take care of my children. So having a job can sometimes help you move ahead in your business!
    Thanks for the show!

  177. I have seen this a lot in network marketing – where people have the goal of ‘firing their boss’… but quit their day job as soon as they have two or three good months, instead of paying off debt and consolidating that business income. And that’s a recipe for disaster. There’s not much worse than a hungry, resentful salesman at the wheel if your goal is meaningful connection and long lasting financial freedom. Liz Gilbert’s Big Magic covers this idea of laying-expectations-on-something-to-make-money-for-you SO beautifully.

  178. Dear Marie and dear Nathalie,
    here is my experience, that simply matches with the message of this episode of MarieTV: getting a full-time job really took away from me the stress of paying the bills and gave me the freedom to enjoy much more my creative dream 😀 with nice results!
    And much more: I’ve asked for the full-time job of my dreams, and now I have much more to enjoy than only my creativity dream!
    It’s true that now I cannot work full time also for my creative dream, but having a full-time job as an employee doesn’t stop me from developing my ideas and working on them, to make them come true and share them with my Tribe! It’s a matter of learning how to make a better time planning and don’t forget that I’ve also a nice personal life with my beloved to enjoy with 😀 so: my time slots for the creativity are 1 hour per working day and max 4 hours per weekend day, and the rest of the time is for my private life. And it seems to work very well by now 😀
    Having less stress on reaching a money goal, I can really enjoy the creative process itself and let my creativity flow through my real dreams, without the pressure of reaching a minimum incoming. That’s really my freedom and my best time ever!
    I wish all the best also for you, Nathalie, and for all of us 😀

  179. Angelica

    This is by far one of my favourite episodes because it spoke to me directly. I decided to quit my job at a pharmaceutical company 2 years ago and started my own business and it has been great, I have learnt a lot but I am also broke right now. The getting a day job idea has been on my mind recently but I thought the same as Natalie and the idea made me really sad because I thought that I was giving up on my dreams. This week I have been thinking about this a lot, and then this morning I received the news letter from Marie TV and I realised that this is exactly what I needed to hear right now. Thanks a lot for this amazing episode and for all that you do.
    You are such an inspiration for me.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much, Angelica! I’m sorry to hear things didn’t go as planned with your business, though I’m really glad this episode was timely. Your dreams are important and there’s nothing wrong with doing what you need to do to make them happen, even when that means getting a day job. <3

  180. Well especially living in North America, never mind New York, a place that chews you up and spits u out if your not on your A game 24/7, you most definitely need to have multiple jobs– period, because you’ll never survive a decent life in these places! Then there’s the burn out danger, often times most people are in overdrive already, killing all creativity–ha who has energy for that when life is sucking u dry– so yes, many valid points but most of the time people give up on their dreams cuz life today, if you’re not well attuned, will tell you to “get your head out of the clouds and pay ur big ass bills, who do you think u are!” Perhaps moving to the jungles of Costa Rica will provide the clarity we really need in a quicker amount of time;)

  181. The universe must be talking to me. I have been hell bent on quitting my day job as I don’t believe it allows me enough time to follow my goals and dreams. But with two kids it’s a little difficult to just say, hey, let’s go for it. I don’t know how to balance all of this though….it’s really hard… Having a day job distracts you from your goal at times but it’s a necessary evil…..

  182. Great topic. As a performing artist, I struggled with this question for a long time. At times, when I was honest with myself I wasn’t fully going for my dreams and I hid behind day jobs. Other times, it was part of the necessity to live, and when my bills are paid and needs met…I am more productive as an artist.
    I am gifted to be in a place where now I CAN say no more often to non-related performance work and it feels AMAZING. And because I am at peace with myself, my art, and the purpose of day job tasks, it feels all good. Good luck!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s wonderful, Jennifer! I’m so glad you’re doing more of what you love and are at peace with yourself, your art, and your day job. Right on! 🙂

  183. I am a writer and have been a singer and songwriter. For most of my life – and I am 60 now – I have mostly supported myself (and 3 kids at one point) with money from writing and singing. But here’s the BIG BUT(T)! I write business articles, white papers and a lot of corporate stuff. Also, when I sang professionally I sang the jobs that were available – country band to disco band – wherever the work was. Today, I am writing a little bit more of the things that I have wanted to write, and I am singing in a jazz and standards group for fun, not profit. Bottom line: you might be able to do your art for a living, but that might mean doing your art in a mercenary way sometimes. Don’t ever feel like you are selling out. I learned a lot about singing and writing by taking jobs that weren’t “art”, and my art is probably better for it. Good luck! Keep the positive thoughts. Love your art and it will love you back!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really good point, Peggy! Thank you so much for sharing your perspective and wisdom with us. 🙂

  184. Having experience in both working a “day job” and not, while building my creative business, I’ve learned this: I am more creative when I’m not overly stressed about paying my bills. However, I think it’s important to use my creativity to create “work” that provides the most flexibility, gives me the biggest return for my time/energy investment, and (ideally) aligns with or supports my creative work by providing useful contacts, knowledge and inspiration along with a paycheque. For example: My passion is teaching (which is just a spillover from my lust for learning) so I developed some adult interest courses on hobbies I’ve got some expertise in, and I deliver them through my local community center. I get paid to teach AND my students always want to get on my email list to learn more about other courses I offer. I do what I love, make a little side money and build my list. I think we all have skills that we may not realize we could leverage in some way to create another stream of income. I definitely agree that eliminating as much financial stress as possible will actually support the fulfillment of your dreams. I also believe that we are only limited by our imaginations. As Marie says, everything is figure-out-able. Much love to all you amazing beings in Forleo-land. Oh and… why is the Universe male?!!!! 🙂

  185. If I wasn’t working a job, I would have had to quit my dream a long time ago. Getting a job is the start thing to do so you do not get into debt. Stay encouraged!

  186. Melissa

    Thank you, Natalie! I have wondered this as well. I did get a day job, but now my time goes to that and I am so mentally drained at the end of the day that I don’t have the energy to be creative. I feel caught in the middle.

  187. Really good topic as I also have recently needed part-time work to help relieve some financial stress while my business hit some major cashflow shortage. Part of me initially felt deflated and frustrated that I was not able to fully fund myself through my own business but the flipside has been the major relief of knowing my living costs are taken care of and my brain has had a break from thinking about what I do 24/7. Turns out, working for someone else has reminded me of everything I’m good at (and can use to help others) and re-ignited my motivation to sink my teeth back into my biz. I highly recommend biting the bullet and finding work/income outside of your main passion – even if it’s short-term – in order to a) restore your wellbeing and b) relieve financial pressure from your business. And great to read I’m not alone in this experience!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s so good to hear, Danielle! I’m really glad you’re feeling relieved and are reminded of the things you’re good at. Entrepreneurship can be discouraging sometimes when there are bumps in the road, so it’s great that your part time job has been a good thing financially and emotionally.

  188. Well, I kept my day job for 9 years and at the same time nurtured my dream of private practice, aligning all of my actions to make it a reality. I took additional courses and training to expand my knowledge, gain certifications, licensure and to network. Half way through the nine years, I stepped out into private practice part-time with one client.

    There were times that I wanted to move out of employment before it was time. But, I’ve learned to do my part and then wait for the UNIVERSE (GOD) to do the moving. I asked when, when, when so many times, as I was anxious to be in and live my dream. But I also knew that the Universe had not yet made it clear that it was time. When the time came, I was the first to know. Things started happening and within a month I was in practice, full-time. I had a shared space that I’d used to see my client part-time. So, I continued for another few months until it made sense to lease an office full-time. It all seemed to have happened SUDDENLY, when I got the key to my very own office and opened the door. But I knew it had taken 9 years and lot of work, patience, prayer and faith to get there.

    It’s been a year and half since that transition took place. I am growing and so is my practice. I’m a mental health counselor (therapist) and the name of my practice is DreamWell Counseling & Consulting. DreamWell = Hope + Works = Manifestation

    Keep dreaming, working and praying w/patience knowing that what you hope for will manifest. Align all of your actions to support and nurture your craft. Taking a job to provide for the necessities will provide a since of stability that you’ll need to remain focused and is a monetary resource that will support your craft. I hope my testimony helps.



  189. Elizabeth

    Thank you Natalie for your question! I have been battling the decision to find another job for some time now because I do not make enough to pay all my bills; however I am working on building a business. I felt so conflicted in thinking that finding another job means I am pushing my dreams to the side to make more money and in turn will only focus on my new job. Your question was right on time!

  190. Great A to the Q today, as always! Um… all I can say is that as a singer/songwriter, I have never ever never never never ever made a living at my “art.” In fact, I have spent crazy amounts of money on it all of my life – literally since I was old enough to get a job and pay for my own voice and piano lessons. I have paid producers, promoters, other musicians to play my shows with me, in LA you gotta pay the friggin’ clubs MOST of the time. I had a really blessed situation at an LA venue because my friend is part owner, so I got to play and keep the door, but seriously – the Whiskey? Forget it! If you’re just some unknown act, you gotta pay — it used to be $12 per ticket at 75 tickets minimum, so you had to hustle your little behind to sell those puppies pre-sale or pay it yourself — on top of paying your band. Not all clubs are that way, but the Sunset strip venues — yep. The last time I played a live show, I had to fork over $200 to a promoter who didn’t do jack. I work in PR, so I can actually say that in good conscience. And, I just looked at my statement of income from CDBaby, just to see — yup! So far this year… $7.09 — and at $.008 per stream average (Spotify, etc.). Let’s just say that I will most likely always have two jobs — my Survival Gig (a girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do) and my Heart Gig (because if I quit writing music and singing, I’ll dry up and die inside — for like ever even until I’m way beyond senior citizen). Blessings to all of my fellow artists out there doing their thing!! I send all of you big love because I really believe that each of us shining our lights in our own little corner of the Universe make it a warmer, lovelier place as a whole.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Oh wow, thank you so much for sharing this with us, Kellie! This is a really good reminder that often the thing we love costs us money to create and share, which can make doing what you love full time doubly difficult. I’m so glad you’re making music and letting your soul sing its song.

  191. Sometimes we have to get out of our own way. For decades I struggled trying to balance my creative writing with my day job as a technical writer. I hated the day job! It didn’t leave me any time or energy to create. Then somewhere along the way I figured out that the day job was actually helping me in so many ways I never thought of before.

    Technical writing is all about order. After three plus decades writing procedures and manuals, I discovered this transferred to my creative writing by keeping me organized. I could outline like a fiend and I never lost my way in the creation of my novels.

    And, over this past decade as my earning power grew, that day job gave me the money to fund my creative projects. But I had to embrace the day job before I could see this. Sometimes we have to step back to make these discoveries. Allow things to manifest in their own time.

    So, yes… embrace the day job. Let it support you while you create! It is not holding you back, it is keeping you balanced.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s so cool, Dawn! This is such a fantastic perspective. 🙂

      • Thanks, Mandy. You know what? Sometimes we just get so worked up over this subject we can’t function and our brains whack out. We truly believe we’re sabotaging our creative love instead of recognizing that we’re really supporting our creativity with a day job.

  192. Kristin

    One of the things I’ve learned over my short career is that finding a job (or work) is much easier when you have one. When you’re working, you’re out in the world and able to make more connections – maybe one will be the magic one for your art or whatever your heart wants to do.

    I have also found that I can transfer what I learn while working to my personal life. Balancing a full-time job and your passion project can be tough but worth it. I look at it not as selling out, but as a chance to expand my circle – of friends and knowledge.

  193. This is something I’ve beat myself up about my entire life. Though I’ve lived a largely creative life, pursuing my bliss through performing, writing, visual art, etc. I’ve never made a living at it and this has always made me feel like a “loser.” Or just “not talented enough to make it.” It’s the crux of why I give up on my self as an artist time and time again. I love the idea you spoke of Marie, that it is our responsibility to support our arts, not the arts’ responsibility to support us. That it’s what we do to be ourselves and if we don’t support it, if we abandon our own birthright and creativity, we signal to the universe that we have given up. I recently sublet out my expensive digs in the NY Metro area to live with my son for the winter, in Napa Valley, rent free. It’s a gift I’m giving to myself to reduce the financial stress in my life and just work on my creative projects for the next 5 months. I am perhaps teaching myself a lesson here…what I value most is the freedom to create. Do I want a nice apartment? Yes, but not at the expense of my sanity or my freedom to express myself. Today’s video validated this for me…Living within or below my means may not be glamorous, but it reduces the stress to be constantly producing income, and frees me up to be me.

  194. A little over a year ago I found myself in a negative cash flow situation. Not nice. So I got a part-time customer support job in the call-centre of a major home furnishings company. It’s been hard work, learning the job, and keeping on working on my artwork, but now I’m back into positive cash flow, with savings, very good.
    I’ve recently renegotiated my hours with my employer, I’m now working 2 days a week at the job, and 3 days a week on my artwork.
    Which is amazing.
    The unexpected bonus is that I’m learning a HUGE amount about how to plan, make, market and sell in my job. This is stuff I’ve never been good at, and why I was in negative cash flow last year. It’s very, very cool.
    My advice is:
    1. brainstorm / mind map / visualise the perfect day job to support your creative business
    2. apply for jobs that meet the criteria you’ve visualised in step 1
    3. work really hard in the day job to establish yourself and learn it so that it’s easy to do, your creative business may have to be on the backburner while you do this
    4. keep track of your finances so that you can rejoice when you creep back into positive cash flow – hooray!
    5. once you’re back financially, and have established yourself in the day job, readjust the amount of time and effort your putting into the day job versus your business, and go hard on your business


    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s so smart, Lynn! I love that you’re learning things in your job that will help you with your business.

  195. Mia

    Thank you so much for this! I’m 22 and have heard get real and a get job as much as great real and focus on your dreams my whole life. My question now is about getting a full time job. I can live off part time work and random gigs right now, but others tell me since I have a degree I should get a full time job.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really good question, Mia. Success looks different to everyone, so while I’m sure the “get a real job” people are trying to be helpful, it’s important to consider whether that’s what you want. Marie has some really good advice on defining success for yourself, no matter what the world says: I hope it helps!

      • Hi Mandy,
        Thanks for you reply :). I’ll check that episode out!


  196. Oh I LOVED today’s episode! Have the same doubts, just like Natalie. And yes, was amazed by what I read in Liz Gilbert’s Big Magic that she kept her day job for so long.
    Thank you, Marie!

  197. Mary

    The timing of this episode is CRAZY. I’m in the exact same position as Natalie…I’ve started to apply for work doing things I ‘know’ how to do but interestingly I’m not getting any interviews SO I’m now attentively listening and watching for where the Universe wants me to go.
    The last few months have been a HUGE learning curve and now the lesson surrounding lack and abundance is clear.
    Thank you Marie, I felt such relief to watch this. The Universe is speaking through you, I love that 🙂

  198. Great post! If you do go back to work, this isn’t really a setback. I see it as a sharpening period. A period where, if you keep pushing, it will strengthen you. It can be frustrating, but use that as fuel to stay on your path. I believe that heartache can birth many blessings. Sadly, I only realize it AFTER I come to grips with the reality of the situation. It’s never easy when you want it to be.

    I’ve had to “go back to work”, before, to a job where I’m more than capable, but my heart isn’t in it. During this time, my heartaches birth new ideas when I least expect it. My frustration squeezes it out and those moments warrant little bursts of success. Nobody ever wants heartache, but because of it, I’ve created new designs for my brands and ideas for my blog. Although I can’t unleash them all at once (we all would like that), I’m so thankful that the ideas came to me. I pray that it’s helpful in any way! Keep going.

  199. Yay! I loved reading all these comments. Is it bad to admit I’m glad I’m not alone in being broke as I build my dream business?

    For me, it’s a tough line. I CAN make do with less and not have a day job. But sometimes I do get discouraged and stressed. Something to definitely think about… But to be honest, I’m a little worried about my marketability. I’ve been trying to get my business off the ground for the past year in my dream field and I don’t have a ton of experience in my old career so I wonder what type of job is best for someone in my situation.

    Marie, I’d love an episode where you ask the following question: “Are you marketable after entrepreneurship?”


    • Judy Montel

      Thanks, Laura – I second the motion!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really good question, Laura! We’d love for you to submit it for consideration for the show. On this page,, if you scroll down to “Got a Burning Question?” you’ll see a link where you can submit Qs for Q&A Tuesday.

  200. I think multiple streams of income are critical for any business to survive. Whether it’s a creative endeavor or growing a company there’s always going to be time spent doing things that you don’t necessarily love or even enjoy because those things put the cash in the bank. We all wish we could focus on just the parts that we enjoy the most or best suite our skills but I don’t think it’s realistic to expect that of life in general. There are parts of my business that feel like a “day job” mainly because I would rather have someone else do them or I feel I’ve out grown those activities but they generate the cash flow that I need to grow as a whole and so they are necessary if I’m to thrive. I think the day job is much like this.

  201. Dhipa

    Could the universe have timed this message better for me? I was contemplating this exact question this week. I took a career break for a few months to pursue my writing and creative side but it has been nothing more than a stress? Worrying constantly that I should be earning. Which just like Marie said, does not inspire creativity. So I feel like this has given me permission to not feel so bad about doing a day job!! love your videos Marie and thank you!!

  202. Peri Caylor

    Live your day job and your creative one. Each will feed the activities of the other. Try setting a problem from the day job on the back burner when you go to the creative side, or vice versa. Keep a notepad handy, and your mind will start generating solutions to that problem. Why? You’re not working too hard at devising a solution. Also, the more you actually do in a day, the more capacity you build. You become more efficient at your tasks, and you waste less time at things you don’t need to do anyway.

  203. Brandon

    I always say to myself, “I’m working full-time at my JOB while I’m working part-time on my FORTUNE.” Soon I’ll be saying, “I’m working full-time on my FORTUNE and just part-time at my JOB.” Finally I’ll be saying, “Only a FORTUNE for me!” It takes a lot of work and great common sense. You have to pay the bills along the way!

  204. Chloe

    This episode has just come at the perfect time! Having just recently closed a business down I was feeling totally lost, I felt so unmotivated and lacking in purpose, but I was determined NOT to get a job! Then, I was eating out with my brother one night and the restaurant was hiring……out of the blue I asked for the job!! I’ve now been there 3 weeks, it’s super easy compared to what I had been doing and its actually helping me get up each day! Even though I know I don’t want to do it forever, it’s good for me, right now. The owners and other staff are great too, and after having worked predominantly alone for almost 5 years it’s really doing me good. I’ve also realised that it’s giving me the best of both worlds, I get to socialise, make money and not worry about anything when I come and go, AND I can start working on my new business on the side. For so long I battled with the idea of what people would think and how I would feel not being my own boss, but actually I’m still my own boss, I choose to do this in order to give me a better life. Not everything’s about money, sometimes we just need a diversion or even just a break from our own self. Having this job has helped me more than I ever thought it would x

  205. Hi Marie
    Glad I watched this episode.

    However, being (maybe) a lot older than some of your followers, I have found that whenever I have taken a ‘day’ job to pay the bills, I get totally derailed from my dreams / longer-term perspectives and it then takes me ages to get back on track. Mainly because I have a couple of annoying health issues that contribute to this derailment and mean that I can either work – or focus on my dream. Not both together.

    I’d love to break out of this either / or scenario, but haven’t a clue as to how to do so. It also doesn’t help that I’m a ‘jill of all trades’ and don’t know how to monetise what I believe might be the true reason I’m here – this time around..

    • Judy Montel

      I hear you, Inga. I’m also older and without specific health issues, I have much less energy than I used to. Putting together some part-time jobs that are less stressful helps, but I’m at the very beginning of this journey, so I’ll have to keep you posted…. Hang in there!!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      This is a really good question, Inga! You might find it helpful to check out this MarieTV episode on how to turn off your business self when you’re off the clock: That way you’ll better be able to get into a creative mindset when you’re not at your job.

  206. Angela Clear

    Really needed this today. Started a day job three weeks ago and really felt down on myself. Like I was conforming, giving in to fear, and pacifying my family’s concerns about me having a “retirement fund.” Being a creative with a full time job is challenging–how to turn on the creative mind after 8 hours being logical, organized and efficient at a desk and computer screen. But it’s reality! And if that income gives you the peace of mind to be creative even one hour of the day, those single hours will add up to a completed book, work of art, clothing line, or whatever. Thanks Marie for this right on time message! 😉

  207. Riana

    Hi there, it is not easy to live without a proper income. It is also not wise to compromise.

    Natalie can maybe find something to design on the website of 99designs in the meantime. Most other freelancing sites are overcrowded with people offering general services, for example, they would advertise doing general proofreading, but not specify exactly what kind of proofreading they specialise in. I would advise her to indicate what she specialises in.
    She could also post her services on Craigslist etc. and see what response she gets.

  208. Georgia

    Thank God you addressed this. I have struggled with this for decades! So down in the dumps that I hate my day job but not financially able to quit it.
    I just need to re-prioritise! Keep the job, remove the guilt, invest more time in my future creativity while just doing what I have to do to stay alive today. Love you Marie!

  209. Yes, important question Natalie. I have many times felt the same as you. That said, I’ve almost always supported my art through unrelated day jobs. At times, I borrowed money to fund a project and other times, put the project on hold. The key point I wish to stress here is to maintain the balance between working for money and working for art. Stay true to your calling, make time daily for your art, and know the “day” job is an investment in yourself and your art.

  210. Natalie! Natalie! Natalie!
    I also want to be an author and make money off it, but I can’t do it full-time right now…and I’m 49 years old! I’ve had to get numerous full-time jobs (did I mention that I also have two kids and a husband?) but I NEVER STOP WRITING AND PUBLISHING. I made money off it but not enough to support the lifestyle my family is used to. I write because I can’t NOT WRITE, I do not write to earn money. It took me a long time to come to this…almost 10 years. Like you, I wanted to write books and make tons of money. Guess what? The likelihood of that is so small that it nearly never happens so you cannot write for the money. You have to do it because you will die if you don’t. If you need money, get a job but don’t stop writing. I wish there were some magic spell that would make it so you can write and get rich but that only happens stories that people write!

  211. Amy

    I never comment on videos, but this particular episode has been circling my mind all day. On some level, I agree with Marie- if you need money, then take a job. You’re not selling out. However, if you are someone who gives a 100+ percent to everything you do, then this is not the best course of action because it can easily lead to burnout. Taking a job is not always the most productive solution. Instead of immediately taking a job, ask yourself: How can I reduce my stress so I have more energy to focus on my dreams? Also, get clear as to why you want what you’re chasing. If you’re trying to get rich on one book, then that may not be the best use of your time given that many authors are not making a killing from a single book release. In that case, a job is needed while you gain some clarity, direction and a more soulful perspective. Yes, financial well-being is very important and sometimes taking a job can give you immense relief. However, that relief will wane if you’re not consistently working in the direction of the life that you want to live. So realistically dream big, while at the same being aware of who you are and how much time, energy and cash you have to exert. Let your drive fuel your dreams instead of letting your ambition run you in circles.

  212. I hear you Natalie. And I can totally relate to working so incredibly hard, being ‘successful’ and still not having the financial reward to show for it. Congratulations on publishing your first book btw! That’s a serious accomplishment!
    I’m a picture book illustrator, with 13 picture books published world-wide with some very well-known authors and publishers and my last royalty check couldn’t even buy a slice of bread, never mind the butter.
    I loved what Maria said about books being very much like a big business card.
    About a month ago, I decided to change how I think about my creative ventures …I now think of myself as a marketing company first, then an illustrator.
    Social media is my new best friend, I’m teaching illustration classes online with Skillshare, and I also work as a graphic designer on the side.
    I’ve been an illustrator for 16 years, but its not the only thing I do, and that make me, and my career far more interesting.
    Wishing you all the best, please don’t give up on your illustration dream, but do find a way to use your talent to pay the bills…its worth it.

    • Dear Nina, I’m a student on Skillshare and I’ll be signing up your illustration class. (Am a children’s writer and do some painting on my side, too.) So happy to find another of our kind here!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s really smart, Nina! I’m really glad you figured out a variety of ways to use your talents so you have multiple income streams. That’s definitely good advice.

  213. We all have dreams but in order to achieve them we must first supply our basic needs, and that is paying the bills. It can be hard but if you love your creative work that much, trust me, you will always find time to do it. Think about all these amazing people who did it but they didn’t stop hustling. 🙂 Thanks for this episode Marie I just got more motivated to do my creative work.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Exactly, Kate! 🙂

  214. Rosemary

    Agree .Your cash flow really effects how you feel day to day . You need to protect your cash flow at all times to give you head space to be creative

  215. Love Love Love this and totally agree I started a movement called The After 5 Club where I teach women how to start and grow side businesses along their day job! So important to let your day job act like your secret angel investor, sugar daddy and fund your dreams as you get going. This is exactly what I teach in my movement!! And I talk the talk and walk the walk!

  216. Gene W

    I’m doing a day job as a bus driver but this doesn’t mean I’ve given up on my dreams. Not at all? My dream is to create an internet digital information product publishing business. I have done a few courses but they made me realise that to do this business I have to know what I am doing. This means learning! So… I am learning the social networking platforms (Facebook, Twitter, Pinterest, Google +, Youtube etc). I am learning copywriting, content creation, blogging strategies, WordPress website design and I do most of this very cheaply through Udemy courses which cost $10 to $25 each and deliver excellent practical learning. In the meanwhile, because I am earning a reasonable income with surplus left over each week, I don’t create a poverty mindset that keeps saying ‘you can’t afford…”.
    My point is this… if you have a dream, go for it. If you need to do a daytime job to pay the bills until your dream business kicks in with enough income to replace your day job, then do that. However, set daily activity goals and be consistent with your efforts. The time will go by whether you reach for your goals or you give in to fear, doubt, laziness or procrastination. Build you dream one day at a time, one step at a time. Begin it now, be clear about your daily, weekly, monthly and final intented outcomes… and be persistent.

  217. Alma

    I agree so much with you Marie. I have listen to audios and read books about people who have achieved their dreams. And all of them had a job while working on their dreams. Jim Rohn says ” while working your full time job, work part time in developing yourself “.
    And Lisa Nichols said that while she was working in her full time job she used to see as the funder of her dreams.
    I have a full time job and on the side I’m working in learning all I can about my dream and taking the steps I need to fulfill it. Is definitely true what you said that having a job will free you from financial stress

  218. Sael Celly

    I think it is absolutely Ok to get a day job to support you, while you focus on your dreams and what you know you were meant to do. The two are not mutually exclusive but complementary. Thanks, Sael Celly

  219. Thank you so much for asking this question Natalie! (and answering it Marie!) as it’s the exact doubts I’ve been having – in fact, I’m sitting at my desk, in my new ‘day job’ typing this reply! I tried so hard to make something work, to live the dream of ‘mum hours’ and ‘my time’, all the while being a successful ‘writer’…….all great and fluffy in theory, except there were no dollar signs to support this.
    Cue ‘day job’ – but this is where I felt that the Universe hadn’t totally abandoned me – I’m still self-employed, so I can still do ‘mum hours’ #win However, I still felt like I had still let the Universe down as I completely abandoned my writing and it’s been starting to eat at me recently. Cue a meeting just yesterday with my ‘boss’ (of sorts)- and he’s all like, “Why have you stopped writing??” #facepalm
    It’s been a crazy nutty kind of path to get to that moment but I honestly feel, for the first time today, that I have a new space for writing. A new reason to write and share and it’s kind of weird that it actually took removing myself from my writing bubble to find that revelation nugget.
    Much love! xx

  220. Marie how did you read my mind?? This is exactly what’s on my mind this week.
    Teaching (and directing and acting) is my art, and my business is all teaching (Voice Body Connection). And guess what? My day jobs are all teaching too, and I’m totally burning out. The problem is I have no idea what other kind of day job to get that isn’t rewinding backwards to my nannying/waiting tables days. I need a big spike in income and I need it now and OY VEY. Anyway I don’t have a solution right now. What do you do when you know you need to get a job but you don’t know what that job could be?

    • Judy Montel

      I wonder about that, too, Elissa. Marie, maybe an upcoming video could talk a bit about this? Or point us in directions to learn about how to look for one of those jobs or hustles that don’t leave us so drained we can barely think, let alone create?

  221. LOVED today’s video! Just want to add this 2c. I 100% believe in ‘survival jobs’ to keep the bills paid while you focus on ‘the work you’re meant to do’, but I would just say PLEASE do something you don’t loathe..!! I learned the hard way that if you take the high pay high stress roles they deplete you too much to do your craft in the evenings / weekends. Don’t forget to love yourself enough that you find something that may not be a 6-figure salary, but you still have energy left over at the end of a shift to do your thang <3 All Love xoxo

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s an excellent tip, Sarah! I can totally see how doing something you totally hate would deplete you to the point of not being able to be creative. Thanks so much for sharing this important insight.

  222. I’m 41 and I’m a full time artist ~ AND a full time writer. Writing is my day job, and painting is my career. I started writing professionally in ad agencies at age 20, and used the money I made from that to pay for art classes; later I became a writer-newscaster to pay my way through art school, and after that I’ve always been working part-time as a writer to pay for paint. But real life is what it is: I didn’t want to have to go back to writing full-time but full time work means full time money, which (duh) is substantially more than part-time money. But painting also demands eight to 11-hour working hours (because paintings do not paint themselves). So doing both means I do not sleep. It’s no way to live, and I don’t recommend my lifestyle to anyone with a heart problem or something like that. But when I see my work up on the gallery walls, or published in books (I also illustrate for children sometimes), it makes all the stress x sleepless nights worth it. I also dream of having my art support me someday but I have to be realistic.

    There’s also this: recently I met a full-time artist who says he doesn’t mind compromising what he creates so that he can sell it ~ he asked me if I was comfortable doing that and I said, well, as long as YOU are. He sort of retorted that well, -I- have to do that cos I’m painting full time (cos he knew I had a day job). I’m rather kind of glad that I can create whatever I want without “worrying whether people will like it enough to buy it” ~ because I feel I am being true to myself as an artist without compromising “just to make a buck”. I am definitely not dissing artists who sell their work (I have sold my paintings too) or whatever; I am just saying that there’s that angle to it ~ especially since that artist that I met seemed to saying that I wasn’t “legit” because I had a day job.

    Thank you Marie for saying that my work as a writer does not make me less of “real” writer. Though I’ve been a professional writer for 21 years and a practising artist for only 11, art is really what I want to do ~ and if that means that my pen has to support my brush then so be it. Thank you also because I’ve also been wavering (after all this time LOL) on the subject ~ because being Batman (artist) and Bruce Wayne (writer) at the same time is burning me out ~ I’m not getting any younger LOL ~ but what you said in this video kind of put me back on track and reminded me of why I’m doing what I’m doing ~ why I’m busting my hump working as a writer during the day and giving up on sleep (and sometimes food LOL (who has time to eat haha) and putting up with everyone who says I’m wasting time and my hard-earned money painting: because I love making art ^_^** Thank you, Marie ^_^ //

  223. Sophia Martinez

    I actually work in consulting accounting and I write short stories, screen plays and was able to produce a short film and fund it 100% from my day job. Treat yourself like a business, pay yourself a certain percentage of your earnings from your day job to help prosper your true dreams. Many Blessings.

  224. Sam

    Marie, are you in my brain?? Seriously, all of your videos speak to what I am going through at the moment when you release them. This topic is one that is very close to my heart and I’ve been wrestling with this thought for a few months now. Thank you, I feel like I have permission to keep my job and continue creating in all my other moments. Sending a HUGE e-hug to you right now. xoxox

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Marie might be a little bit psychic. 😉 So glad this episode was helpful, Sam!

  225. This time last year, I was like Natalie – near penniless in my children’s writing & illustrating career. (That was the only reason why I couldn’t sign up for B-school. Just didn’t have the sum in the bank.) It was the absolute pits and I knew I had to make a decision: getting a day-job or to keep writing . . . but it’d be for other people. I had similar anxieties: Would I still have the time and energy to write my own stories? Would I have to bend to others’ will and write stories I’m not happy with? etc. etc. (Funny thing was I wasn’t too concerned about what the universe was thinking.)

    The thing I’ve learned is, there is always a choice in how we approach what we do.

    I’m now making a proper living from writing. The bonus is huge — because I really enjoy working on my clients’ projects, too. I’m happy with what I’m writing for others, and I’m happy with what little bit I’m writing for myself. During intermissions of clients’ works, I can pay more attention to my own stories and paintings, without worrying as much about my income. I haven’t given anything up. Not one bit. Instead, I’ve gained so much more.

    So please don’t worry, Natalie. Things can be worked out. The first thing would be to take care of yourself and your immediate needs so that your stress won’t eat away your creative energy. Best of luck!

  226. Chris

    MF, thanks for another great video!
    BTW, if you ever gonna make another video with the Universe in it, may I request for a female Universe ~ I bet she’ll have more attitude than a male Universe! (no offence to the male Universe 😉 LOL)

  227. This video came at THE most perfect time! I am on week two of my new “normal” 40 hour 9-5. I never thought I would be a desk job person, but my family was starting to drown. I run a small jewelry company, and as much as I love it, it was causing so much stress. Some months are amazing and some are not. Trying to help support my family was becoming too much stress and making me despise my biz. Now, I have a great salary, paid time off, and benefits. It has already freed up my mind to be more creative and enjoy making jewelry again. The best part….in this past week, I have been presented with two amazing opportunities with my business.

    I know this 9-5 isn’t my end all, but for now, it provides my family with everything we need, taking the stress off of my business. Now…I just need to figure out how to add more hours to my day and possibly clone myself.

  228. Oliver

    Natalie, get a day job unless u have something brilliant in the oven that u are keeping warm to serve to the right consumer.
    For example, life coach Tony Robbins and the television show Biography explain how Sylvester Stallone had written the screen play for Rocky which he believed in so much that he stood behind it uncompromisingly. He was hungry and managed to succeed with odd jobs. So it is possible to live on the fringe as you pursue success although it depends on the person.
    Becoming organized and productive enough to hone a craft until it’s sensational is a mind blowing transformative process. Each successive improvement in personal growth leads one step closer to success. Knowing where u stand in relation to this process lends u insight as to whether to continue living on a tight budget.
    Once u have undergone the life transformative changes to achieve success u will know it in your gut. At that point it is easier to gauge if u may continue on the current path.
    Personally, I am still in the developmental stages so I am night custodial worker and try to pursue my passion to operate a business during the day. It is not fun, it is just my best option at this time.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s a really good example, Oliver! It seems like a lot of famous people who now get to do what they love full time had to work a lot of odd jobs while they were creating their art in the beginning. We’re cheering you on with your business!

  229. The universe is defjnitely speaking to me this morning in a big way… literally day 1 of my new day job that I’ve taken to support myself while I carry on building my coaching business and this email pops up in my inbox! And there I was wondering if I was doing the right thing….xxx

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Sounds like the universe was trying to tell you something! 🙂

  230. Judy Montel

    Yes, day jobs can and do support creative dreams in lots of ways. Besides the income, a lot of times they provide this contrast with your creative work that stimulates and encourages it.
    I also think we need to beware of thinking “just a day job” – without becoming insanely fussy, don’t allow yourself to be in environments that drain who you are, that feel “off” somehow. Remember – a job has to be something that sustains you in more ways than a pay check, so try to find aspects of your job that bring you joy – the work itself, the setting, the other people working there – and if a job isn’t doing that, look for another one. My 2 cents.

  231. Hi guys ! Such a great community here! I’m in the exact situation, only that writer is replaced by Fashion Designer.
    It is so hard to find the funds to produce my products , and I just got a IT day job , and I constantly wonder if I did the right thing.
    I struggled for three years , with no results. Designing , developing prototypes and making clothes takes time every day , minus the marketing.
    I hope I will not lose myself.
    Thank you very much Marie for the glimpse of hope you give me.
    Greetings for Romania.

  232. Yes! I had needed this insight so badly. Seriously, I felt I had to make a choice, but I can keep doing both, together at the same time!!! Love it

  233. Vidya

    Hi Marie, sometimes I wonder if you are psychic!
    This has happened more than a few times, ‘I am in a dilemma and you bring answers to my confusion even without me voicing it out to you.’
    Watching the above video, I totally agree that , yes , we indeed need financial stability that lets us stay stress free to continually manifest creation in this world.

  234. Chantell

    This was the ABSOLUTE BEST episode of MarieTV I have ever watched! Thank you so much for this, as I am sure there are many creatives out there that battle with this topic.

  235. Ana

    Hi, Nathalie:
    When Liz Gilbert said that she took whatever job she needed but would keep writing because that’s who she was (I’m praraphrasing here), I understood that this was the key.
    The Universe doesn’t think in financial terms, only in feeling terms. Since you enjoy your art, do it, and the Universe will bring to you opportunities to develop and share your art with others, so you´ll get even more joy… catch 22.
    I’d suggest you be thankful for a job that allows you to pay for the bills and to be relaxed when you sit in front of your computer.

  236. Dear Nathalie – and any one else out there thinking about this,
    I found myself at a crossroads at the end of December 2015: should I accept another book contract to write about a topic that didn’t excite me (writer) or take a part-time job in a related field (development editor). I took the second option, and it was the best decision I could have made. Having the steady income as a development editor freed me to write about things that interest me. My creativity has tripled this year, and I became much better with time management. Win-win! It doesn’t have to be an either/or choice and freeing yourself from the worry about your bank account opens the space for creativity.
    As Marie said, many famous, multi-published authors have kept day jobs or taken on teaching roles because the books didn’t pay the bills. You’ll be in good company if you take that day job. Good luck!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s fantastic, Barbara! I’m so glad you followed your heart and made the best choice for you. It’s so good to hear that the development editor position has been a rewarding experience.

  237. I am also a writer with a day job. The exposure to “real life and people” provides the material for my writing. I enjoy the opportunity to be paid for my “research”!

  238. Oh mama mia! This is the greatest video ever! Why? Because I’ve been there! And now I’m in a place of helping myself and what was really holding me back from getting another job – a “real” practical one – was just the fear of accepting all the money that would come. That and the realization that I would have to live on my own. Well, gladly I’m saving my pennies, still coloring up a storm, taking each moment as it comes – writing more actually. Life feels amazing when you’re not strangling your art to provide because it often provides food for the soul and I’m okay with making a way to get physical food some other way! <3

  239. Use something from every day job (besides the paycheck) to serve your art. Business, communication, and organizational skills, contacts, ideas, etc. If you are willing to open up, you’ll find a wealth of resources and support within each one.

  240. Ahhh divine timing 🙂
    Thankyou Natalie for asking the question I’ve been subconsciously too scared to ask , and Marie for laying it out straight and to the point.
    I have recently decided I needed to start the “day-job-hunt” while my passion/art is slowly taking off.
    I was dawdling in really making the day job happen – because I too felt like I giving up on myself and the God given gifts I love and want to share. This email and video was the perfect affirmation that actually it is time to get real and start living instead of ‘surviving’.
    Ahh! So happy I could cry!
    Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou ❤️️

  241. MizM

    I chose my career path later in life and became licensed when I was 35. The pact I made with myself when I started out was the opposite of what Marie is saying – I promised never to work outside of my field, come hell or high water. I decided to immerse myself passionately with abandon, to the point of obsession and nihilism if necessary. People, hindsight is 20/20. Yes, I achieved successes I couldn’t have otherwise imagined possible, but I also failed big time in a lot of ways. I am unemployed, broke and my career has virtually flat-lined in stagnation and burn out. I’m at a crossroads.
    I will say, on my own defense, the reason I had to make this pact with myself was nothing to do with belief or the Law of Attraction. It was simply due to the fact I have a certain kind of brain (diagnosed LD) that does not multitask. I can focus only on the job at hand, whether it is waitressing or rocket science. Knowing this about myself, I decided not to waitress.
    Now I have to open myself up to what will come, embrace my attention deficit and stir the cauldron of creativity once again!

  242. Hollie Laudal

    Thank you for this episode. First of all, so grateful to you Marie, you’re my role model. I’ve always had so many passions and interests and finally I have a mentor–you–who tells me that it’s not only ok, but that it’s something to be celebrated!!! I have been working as a math/yoga/improv acting teacher for YEARS and while I do enjoy this work, my real passion is writing. I have written a book about my work as a hospice chaplain, weaving together the beautiful and absurd stories of my patients with my own journey of getting chronically ill and learning how to live and to heal … and I want to have more and more time to write, but I have to pay the bills! The book is ALMOST done … I write in the early hours of the morning most days. I appreciate what you said about a book being more like a “business card”–helps me be more realistic about what’s ahead. I want to use the book as a platform to develop more conversation about the real dangers of being a caregiver and getting fried, and especially getting fried in the “invisible” realm of autoimmune diseases. So many people suffer silently … I find that if I focus on the “Why” of doing my work, it stays in flow, stays easier. Anyway, this episode was super inspiring … thank you!!!

  243. Lynn

    Dear Marie,
    My dream, at the moment, is to become a life coach. My day job is as a 6th grade teacher.

    What I’ve learned and how I can have the Universe support me with this is that I have started to COACH! my students more and more. I love giving them that kind of support, helping them to become successful, academically and in life, by setting goals, assisting them with positive thinking strategies, heck, just allowing them to think in the first place!

    In this way, I feel I am supporting MY dream, in baby steps, and being of service to my students as well.

    With lots of love and appreciation for you,

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      That’s so great, Lynn! That’s such a beautiful way to get experience life coaching, especially since you see your class often enough that you can track their progress and really check up on how they’re doing.

  244. This was perfect for me right now!!! I am currently working a part time day job while working to build my brand, happy, healthy and hot! Add in personal and family obligations, and sometimes I feel like I am being pulled in so many different directions. But I am confident that one day I will
    look back and see how this made me stronger and more resilient. I am learning at the age of 50 to finally set some boundaries. I’m learning to prioritize, think outside the box, and manage my time in a way that I never have before. I’m planning…no wait, not planning…I’m enrolling in B school this year. It’s finally time, and I’m confident that with the lessons I learn there my day job will become less and less of a necessity. In the meantime, I’m staying dedicated to publishing three posts a week, as well as my email newsletter. I’ve been interviewed for other websites and a podcast, with more on the way. So slowly but surely I’m building my business, but still have the security of some other income. Great stuff in this vid!!! Thanks Marie!

  245. This episode reminded me of a quote attributed to Salvadore Dali that I saw on Instagram the other day: “Freedom of any kind is the worst for creativity. You know, Dali spent two months in jail in Spain, and these two months were the most enjoyable and happy in my life. Before my jail period, I was always nervous, anxious. I didn’t know if I should make a drawing, or perhaps a poem, or go to the movies or the theatre…the people put me in jail, and my life became divine! Tremendous!”

    Freedom to pursue creativity may seem like a dream state. I have it as a stay-at-home mom to a 9-year- old son, but I often feel like I’m staring into the infinite universe. The possibilities are endless, but where and when to start? I have all the time in the world. Perhaps having a job, a lucrative distraction, will sharpen my creative focus even more. I’d have less time to daydream and research what others are creating and be forced to spend my free time doing my best and most urgent work.

    Sorry to make this about me! I guess this topic struck a chord in me!

  246. vujjini sushma

    hello marie maam, this is an inspirational video for nathile and us .. hope she found her answer and starts thinking the other way round than thinking about stress.. well taking up a day job is not letting your dreams go…in my case i’m a student and i’m into baking , where i take up small orders and make little money. I always had days where i could not end up both doing my homeworks or completing my given orders. Now that i know that i had taken much stress then. if we have the will and interest deep down our hearts for the dream we always dreamt to become..a day work, or even a matter of a full time working job ..cannot stop us from reaching and fulfilling our dreams.!!

  247. This episode is just perfect! I felt like getting a day job was the worst thing I could do to my dreams, and sometimes I still feel defeated with the fact that I have to be at the office 9 or 10 hrs a day, and when I get home I have only 2 hrs for my site, but this has also helped to stay focused, and setting this 2 hrs as dead lines have also helped me stay productive. It reminds me why I wanna create my own business, and makes me work harder everyday. Thanks for the inspiration Marie

  248. It is so hard when so much of the guidance online is that you can’t fully commit until you quit your day job. I know that is not an option for me right now but I still feel like I am really committed to my own business. Thank you so much for this realistic advice.

  249. Eeerrrrr mer Gerd I LOVED this video!!!!!!!!!!! So much real world gold in here*** Brava and thank you again and again for your awesome generous work Marie! There is, however, one teeeny weeny oversight ……… the Universe as a Man!!! HA HA HA AHA AAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHA I guess that was meant to be a joke cuz we aaaaallllllll know she’s One Hot Broad!!!!! Thanks again!!!!! Now go get some sexy fun side job Natalie!!!! Yes*** You got this!!!!

  250. Love hearing this Marie. I’ve worked as an artist all my life and have had great peaks and low valleys. As a sculptor and lifec asting artist, I’ve developed my own style of casting bronze (foundry work) and have offered something very unique by taking a mold of someone and creating a bronze sculpture that is worthy of being in a gallery. My clients “experience” become one with the art. They are part of the art.
    The challenge, of course, is to create a large enough market so it will generate new clients on a regular basis. As all artists know, unless you have the ability to wear about ten hats, it’s difficult to be on top of every area to nurture your business.
    It’s become clear to me that teaching allows me to financially support the dream.
    At times, I have felt as though I’ve sold out by doing what every artist eventually has to consider, but realize it’s part of the process. I’m passing on years of experience to others who in turn will cast their own vision and inspire the viewer as I have.
    When you love to do something so much that you will sacrifice whatever it takes to be “in” that moment, you know only one direction.
    And this, from a woman who is now 69. Age does not matter.
    Inspired by love.

  251. There is nothing wrong with having a day (or night job, in my case) to make ends meet. I am an aspiring artist, and work with many other artists and musicians. Of course time management is an issue, but having a job that pays well can lift a great burden. Good luck on your endeavors!

  252. Jessica Dupuis

    Hi Marie! This video was so timely for me. I’ve been hustling hard to try to make a life that I want, and the purse strings have been pulled tight for me since I can remember. Every piece of advice has been “just get a job,” but to me, that’s translated into “get a job that you hate and that sucks your soul dry every day” and “give up on your dreams for the trade-off of (very little) money.” It’s the only thing I’ve ever seen anyone else do. I’m still young and in a way, still just starting out, so I couldn’t imagine living my whole life and career doing something that I hate. It doesn’t help that every “I work my creative dream” story I’ve found is about someone leaving a financially-secure job to do risky creative work: that just doesn’t apply to me! I’d felt locked out of both possibilities – no money, and no creativity. I’ve felt like I’ve had to give up both.

    However, since seeing this, it’s really helped me realize that I can pursue both a financially-rewarding career and a creatively-rewarding pursuit at the same time, and not feel bad about choosing one or the other. I started training for a higher-paying job yesterday that isn’t necessarily my dream, but it can help me pay the bills so my dream gets a little bit closer.

    Thanks for such a rewarding and fulfilling answer!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Yay! I’m so glad this episode was so helpful, Jessica! You can do both, and we’ll be cheering you on as you do. 🙂

  253. Courtney Cowan

    Wow I LOVED THIS! I started my online coaching business and I’m busting my ASS but still not getting much of an income stream. I will NEVER give up on this because I was meant to help people get healthy…but I love this because it is started to cause me more stress than not due to income stress. This makes me feel so much better about getting a job especially because I KNOW it won’t mean I’m giving up, because I never will, no matter how long it takes!

  254. It’s great that so many people are experiencing the same thing I am–trying to navigate the balance between making money with a side job or “day job” and maintaining the energy and creativity necessary to allow our “dream businesses” to take off.

    It’s a difficult balance, and each situation is different. One answer–which I mention all the time in my talks about difficult life transitions–is to always stay in the present and keep eyes open for any opportunity that might potentially take you to where you want to be. In his book, “The Way of Transition,” William Bridges puts forth the argument that it’s this moment of uncertainty when you are most alive and most free. This sounds paradoxical because these are often scary moments, but it is also often a time when you’re free from or able to step outside of the daily routine and able to make choices.

    I’ve come up with another solution for myself: Bookmark this page on Marie’s website and re-read the comments whenever I find myself feeling stuck about my situation! Never have I read testimonies from so many people who are in so much of the same situation as I. That itself is empowering. And after reading how so many people took so many different approaches to the same problem, I find myself able to think more flexibly about my own problems and find another way out.

    In short, a big part of the answer is right here. Thanks Marie and thanks to the 400 or so commenters who have added their experience and wisdom to this great discussion!

    • BTW–when I bookmarked this page, I put it in a bookmark folder entitled “Job Leads.” This will remind me not to settle for less. 😉

      • Mandy - Team Forleo

        Love it, Haven! I’m so happy to hear this episode really struck a chord with you.

  255. Ewa

    Hello Ladies! This is such a timely and timeless topic. I’ve planned giving myself a ‘break’ from the corporate world for over three years. I was able to save enough to sponsor a two year adventure, during which I will pen my second title and continue growing my side content marketing business. The key reasons I’m able to finally do it are: 1) I’m single (no husband or kids), 2) debt free, 3) I’ve put away enough cash to last me 2+ years even if I don’t earn while I travel & write, 4) I have identified places to live OTHER than the US to pull this off. Yep, there is no way I would’ve been able to take two years off from work and still live in the Bay Area. I’d be broke in less than six months. My parents have a home in Poland, where I grew up. As empty nesters, they like having me back. I’m able to pay no rent while I’m here and have the space and time to work on my goals before I venture off to Asia and Greece.

    With planning, I’m certain anyone could give themselves the space to take a few months off and recalibrate. It’s possible to even do it while still paying off debt and working a side job. One of my mentors, Tama Kieves who wrote ‘This Time I Dance,’ a book about quitting law to write, did just that. She was a waitress while slowly getting her coaching career started and writing her first book, which took her 12 years to finish. My point is, everything is possible if we want it bad enough and PLAN it. And here I agree with Marie, that sometimes it means taking a day job. I certainly was there, having to slave away at a company I did not really like. But I learned valuable skills and made great contacts that now allow me to have a marketing contract and write for companies from anywhere in the world.

    Best luck to everyone on their way to living their dreams! It is so worth it!

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Splendid, Ewa! I’m so happy for you that you were able to take off work, spend time with your parents in Poland while working on your dreams, and have more opportunities to travel. We’re super proud of you for planning ahead to better enable you to follow your heart.

  256. Now this is exactly the reason WHY I joined B-school! HOW can I create more revenue out of my books and illustrations! I love the ‘Books are nothing but big business cards’ quote! Soooooo true! But.. B-school taught me how to turn them into online revenue! Still no big business, but I’m getting there slowly but surely! If it wasn’t for my partner I would have needed a side job all this time, and that would have been perfectly fine! XXX

  257. Cherie

    I got a job in the financial industry but my ultimate dream is to become a teacher. My current job is allowing me to save for my year of teacher training so that I don’t have to work during this time and and as I am writing letters I am gaining skills linked to teaching e.g quality checking. Im also making connections with lots of different kinds of people and I am a firm believe that in order to be a good teacher you need to experience the corporate world ?

  258. Crystal

    I work a ‘corporate day job’ – which sounds awful and debilitating – but it is not! I look at it like this: My day job is a blessing. My day job keeps me in financial abundance [yes, FINANCIAL ABUNDANCE! ALL money is financial abundance!], I’m good at what I do [and who doesn’t like being good at something?], I make people happy by helping them [and this makes ME happy in return], I earn vacation time [which I use to expand my horizons and not waste away], I am able to share my ‘side-job’ with others [yes, I am an out-of-the-closet spirit junkie!], and my job has taught me organization and time management skills that I utilize in my ‘side-job’. My day starts with my love, which is my spiritual postings [I read cards and receive messages from spirit], then I go to my financial abundance provider for part of the day [notice I say PART of the day? yeah, my job isn’t my life!], come home to mother 3 lovely, busy teenagers!, and go back to my ‘side-job’. My day is nicely scheduled and routine. When an ‘oops’ occurs and I cannot do what I needed or wanted to get done, I just keep going… I’m not perfect, but I’m determined and focused. I do well with this set up and I don’t beat myself up for not giving up a steady paycheck, health benefits and retirement. It helps me do what I love and be true to who I am on the inside… the job is the outside… it’s not my heart, but I still find joy in it. I can’t imagine depriving myself of ANY Joy I can get in life. So, Natalie – I say get a job. You won’t be worrying over the ‘what-ifs’ and you’ll have more energy, excitement, and pleasure when you sit down to write and illustrate… who knows, maybe your new job will gift you with inspiration in ways you never would have imagined.

  259. Thanks Natalie for posing this question and sharing what is a real conflict for most creatives or changemakers! I founded a non profit Girls Going Global that has taken off in many ways but still not able to provide full time salaries for staff. I’ve always struggled with the idea that working for another non profit will not allow me to dedicate my full self to my own. Financial stress strains creativity. Well here I am about to accept an offer which def makes me nervous but its all towards my greater goal of building my organization so taking this job will allow me to be financially secure! I can’t comment on experience of balancing both or if I feel good doing both but I know for now I’m excited to see what this opportunity can do for me 🙂

  260. Emily

    Today’s email from you couldn’t be more poignant! Struggling to financially survive with my life’s passion. Now being interviewed for a position that also intrigues me. My hope is to make some “bank” and hopefully marry these two into one kick-ass career! Thanks Marie (and Mr. Universe!). ?

  261. Ali

    Natalie! You will make it past this point. Right now things may be difficult so instead of finding a job that you would call a “day job” that might take up too much time, find odd jobs or flexible jobs that you can work around your schedule so that when you are most creative you have that time to yourself. I had a similar issue recently so I took up nannying part time because it enables me to only work 2 days a week doing the nannying and then I can have the rest of my week to work on my creative projects. Plus I nanny for a kid that naps for 2 hours during the day so I get those 2 hours to work on my own stuff as well ;). Try to find something that suits your schedule but still allows you to pay rent!

  262. I am in the exact same position, not so much scared that the universe is going to think I gave up on my goals and decided to take a real job but worried that I will be stuck in this shitty job forever and never reach my goals. I just had to take a job that I hate but pays well in order to keep my house and pay my bills. I feel disappointed that after all the work I put into my business that it hasn’t been able to sustain me. I do believe in what I am doing and I know there is value but I can’t help thinking that I will get sucked in to this job because it makes me financially comfortable and start getting creatively lazy. Even today I crashed my car and its totaled now I have to buy another car…another setback. I am taking it all in stride praying for a break through or a opportunity, I hope some of the hard work I put into my business pays off soon. I am also penniless and I hate it.

  263. Lisa

    This is definitely a hot topic and obviously resonates with a lot of people. I had been concentrating on creative pursuits for over six years, with part time work that did not cover my expenses until this spring, when I decided I was ready to return to full-time work, at least for a while, to build up a savings so I could do what I really want, which is travel. I actually got a job in the travel business and manifested a trip to Ireland. But now I’m feeling closed in, trapped in an office job, and not saving any money at all, as many expenses have come up around my car, which gets me to my job. I suspect I have a strong resistance to feeling a deserve enough money in my life to do what I want. I certainly have been hyperfocused on my expenses versus my income, writing down everything that I spend. This seems to cause more stress than less. But, I have been blogging about my Ireland trip. Still, I know that can lead no where without a plan…Again, this situation with money and work is fraught with fear and confusion and is downright messy!

  264. Marie, I’ve been following you since 2012, and I think this is my favourite video yet. Your energy just made me go all “fizzy bubbly” and gave me a complete shift in perspective about signs from the universe. Thankyou! So good. =)

  265. This comes at a perfect time, Marie. Thank you so much! My brother is a great artist and he is facing this right now. I think he feels that getting a job means giving up on his dream. It’s so not true! I’m going to send him this video! 🙂

    P.S. I love you, brother Jack!

    • Chelsea - Team Forleo

      Barbara, we’re so happy to hear that and appreciate you sharing it with Jack.

  266. I’m a touring musician and songwriter who currently only works 3 day jobs – in the past I have worked up to 6 at a time. Many are here-and-there or from-home freelancing gigs, and I require all my day jobs to have flexible enough schedules that I can leave town for 2 or 3 weeks at a time to go on a tour, come back and pick up where I left off.

    I absolutely agree that getting a day job does not mean giving up on your dream – in fact, I know from hard-earned experience that expecting your art to fully support you and feeling unsuccessful when it doesn’t can be a good way to end up miserable, defeated, and bitter. I do my best to practice deep gratitude for what I have and recognize that I choose the life I am living every day, even when it feels like it isn’t a choice.

    However, my struggle continues to be this: I am one human, and there simply doesn’t seem to be time and energy in most weeks to both work enough to support myself AND have any creative energy left over to make music. I am always trying to find a better balance and always re-evaluating and trying new jobs out, hoping they can be the key to a situation that leaves just a little more energy to do the thing I really want to be doing the most. My solution to this problem at this particular time? Move back in with my folks for a couple months and take rent out of the equation for long enough to write a new album. I am thirty. I could see this as some sort of failure, and sometimes I do, but I reframe it as an opportunity. I am blessed that I CAN do this.

    Always crossing my fingers for a 30-hour workweek and $15 minimum wage…but until then, I soldier on, and I know I’m far from alone in doing so.

  267. I completely get it and agreed on this! however, I think of two things to keep in mind when getting “that job” that it will give you the support you need: first, set a date as to for how long do you want to do it and make a plan to keep “your dream” moving forward. Secondly, it has to be a job that it will give you some pleasure, space of mind, or even adventure, something that will hold you for a long time, earning money and giving you something else then money. The job has to have some kind of congruency with your values, otherwise, from my experience and my client experience, a job just for the “money sake” can kill your creativity and let you “unemployed” very quickly.

  268. Absolutely agree! I was struggling with the idea I have to get back to a daily job and give up on my dreams. But now I am sure about the opposite – Universe can only help you if you help yourself first. It’s like in the story: poor man was praying ”God, please, give me some money I am so poor” …God got tired of him praying and told ”Dear, poor man, maybe you can at least buy a lottery ticket”…what if getting a day job is like buying a lottery ticket?:)

  269. Kate

    Thank you so much for this episode Marie! I currently have a day job, which I’ve had for two years or so. It has given me financial support and less anxiety, however it has taken away a lot of the drive I had to write (time, energy, etc.). I know in my heart I’m meant to be writing, but I’m having a difficult time balancing the two. Thanks again Marie!! You are always inspiring.

  270. Michèle

    Dear Nathalie, I know your problem so well! For years I was making a living with small freelance jobs doing what I like (making customized items) and following my heart. The problem was that most of the time I was broke and that is not very inspiring. At one point my friends convinced me that I had to find a job because I lost my apartment, my independence and owed money to friends and family. I found a job in a callcenter, giving technical support. The good thing was that I was in an International environment with lots of creative people and I learned a lot about technology. But …. I did not touch my sowing machines or drawing books for 3 years! Eventually I couldn’t take it anymore, doing the same boring thing for 40 hours a week, still not earning enough money to make changes and not having enough time or mind space to work on my dreams. So I quit, without having anything to fall back on. I said to my colleague; I’m a free spirit! I can’t take this corporate crap any longer! OMG I was sooo happy to be out of that callcenter and to be free again. I had saved some money, had no more debts and convinced myself that I was ready to set up my own business. WRONG! Again I was in the same awful situation as before: no money, no apartment, no security. Then the most amazing thing happened …. I found a job as a home based agent, still for a callcenter but from home!!! The company provided internet and computers and I need to login on time and work my shift. The great thing about this job is that I’m not losing time anymore, sometimes it’s really busy and then I work the whole 8 hours. But when it’s a quiet period with only a few phone calls a day, I have time to work on my dreams and goals and at the same time have the security that a job offers.

    • Paula Finocchiaro Hill

      Amazing! I started a telemarketing company from home, when my daughter was born. It was exhausting and incredibly stressful but it gave me the gift of being with her, making far more than minimum wage, flexible hours, and freedom.
      Keep it up, eventually, things sort out and you’ll be able to fly with your own gifts.

  271. John Garcia

    This topic, really strikes home! When I was younger I made a living as an artist. In time things changed, I would up freelance, and broke! I had to make the choice to get another job which didn’t resonate with me at all. However, one has to survive …Nowdays,on my spare time, I continue to get back to that world of art!!Most of us have juggle more than one thing at once. Especially if we want to obtain that goal!!

  272. Valeria

    Thanks Natalie for sharing, I feel like you do, because I have a degree in Finance, and I am working as a manager, but I also teach ballet, and it has been very interesting to manage both jobs, because I have to pay the bills, so is been very stressful, because I don’t know if I have to quit my ballet lessons because of the money, or to change jobs and get a job where I can earn more. But somehow I am in the middle cause I am not really satisfied as a manager, nor a ballet teacher, but is getting better, probably I don’t have to quit any, so I keep going. And in my experience before I teach ballet I didn’t wanna to get a day job, for me it was going to be perfect to learn ballet and dance, but I realized I am 31 years old, with two beautiful dogs to take care of, so I have to dedicate less time to ballet, and start making money, so is great because now I teach and I earn some money with that. And I also work in the morning, because I am responsible of my life and to commit with myself, and pay the bills, nobody else is going to do that work for me. So my advice is that you go and get a job, you still can write and be an awesome illustrator, you are an infinite being, so you can do everything you want, you definitely will feel so much better with yourself.

  273. I’m so glad somebody finally said it! Seriously the law of attraction isn’t wizardry!

  274. Timing was perfect! Been contemplating this question for a few weeks now. Feel so much better knowning that this is the best way to support my dream!

  275. Wow. I absolutely LOVE this episode of MarieTV and it hit home on so many levels! I’m a 25 year old with big, big dreams and 2 months ago, I decided to take a full-time job. Like many others, I fell into the limiting belief and cultural zeitgeist that full-time jobs are “prisons” and taking one means you’re not a true entrepreneur/creative. It took me 3 years to overcome this resistance! For the past 3 years, I juggled 3-4 freelance gigs, school AND my creative side hustle. I did this in the name of being able to create my own schedule…but the pay was unreliable, inconsistent and unable to meet my living expenses. This sounds counterintuitive but committing to one full-time job (and in my case, that means 10-12 hour days being at the office) is LIBERATING and has provided the freedom and space for my creativity. Instead of worrying how I’m going to pay this bill, it is empowering to know I can support myself AND my dreams. It’s a complete drain to your creativity when you’re wondering how you’re going to make a student loan payment (at least for me). Plus, a full-time job has also helped to build consistent chunks of time into my day and week to create whereas with a spontaneous, freelance schedule, the time for my art was sporadic and did not yield the best flow. Lisa Nichols said this on “The School of Greatness” podcast: instead of seeing a full-time employer as a “prison” think of them as an “investor”. How would you show up for someone investing in your company (but in this case, the company is you)? Would you have a bad attitude? Be unreliable? Be resentful? Absolutely not! An investor is someone that facilitates your dreams and helps make it happen! This change in perspective has been GAME-CHANGING for me and Marie’s words reminded me of how much growth I’ve experienced in the 4 years of watching her show. Thank you, Marie + to your team that makes the magic happen!

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Oh I love that tip about your employer being an “investor” — what a great way to look at it! Thank you so much for watching and commenting, Alexandra!

  276. So the universe is white & male? LOL

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Thembi, thank you for your comment, and I’m happy to clarify. The man pictured in the universe part of this episode is actually one of our MarieTV crew members who often appears in our episodes. In fact, you’ve probably seen him in all sorts of crazy and silly outfits over the years (he’s been a bear at least twice I think!)

      This is just one of those silly and lighthearted moments in our episode, and absolutely not meant to be a representation of what (or who) the universe is.

      I hope you enjoyed this episode, and thank you so much for tuning in with us!

  277. This is so, so true! I just picked up a side job, and I love it almost as much as my true calling. Amazing that your funding business can be functional AND fun, not drudgery as I always imagined.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Right, Jonesy? It’s so fun when we find a side job that can be awesome too. 😀

  278. Russell

    Yeah, I am already on the way to build my dream. Sometimes I feel dark and frustrated, but I do believe the light will come.
    Thanks to my sweet wife and adorable baby son for supporting me to do this. Without you, I can’t accomplish anything for my own business. Keep moving forward!

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Awesome, Russell — having an incredible family in our corner supporting us is so important. Know that our little team is absolutely cheering you on too!

  279. Jessica

    I’ve struggled with this as I love to work. However, after two traumatic experiences at past work places I took it as a sign to focus on launching my dreams. While I was grateful for this new found time, I spent the majority of it stressing out about money. Which meant I was not focusing on building my business. I decided to make a plan. I moved home to cut down on expenses. Not ideal going from your own one bedroom to now sleeping in my 6 year old brothers room. However, I made a conscious decision that bringing my vision to life is my number one priority. While I dreaded moving home, my stress has dropped immensely and I have time to focus on my vision without the stress of bills, especially rent. I didn’t want to look back years from now and think that paying rent was the factor that prevented me from achieving destiny. I bought B-school in March, but I’m now just spending the time going through all the modules. It feels really good to focus. I’ve always had time to see all the resources that’s available to me. I’ve found there are a ton, from being able to work at a friends office space for free etc. While, my funds are low, I’m very resourceful and I’ve managed to find a resource for every need. Being stressed out about money is such a huge distraction from your vision. I created a new plan for myself, and committed to zero debt and living off a less allowance. While I’m not cashing in yet, I’ve reduced my bills, don’t have any debt and really starting to see the abundance of resources and support from family and friends I never knew existed.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      This is SO incredible, Jessica — thank you so much for sharing. It sounds like you’re making such smart, strategic plans and really thinking ahead, and we’re thrilled to hear you’re diving into B-School too! We’re cheering you on all the way, and can’t wait to hear about the things you create. Please do keep us posted! xoxo

  280. YES YES YES! I have a day job and I have ZERO plans of leaving it. It actually gives me the freedom to take risks and enjoy my photography business in a way that I don’t think I could if it was my sole source of income. The idea that you aren’t “really” building something if it’s not your sole source of income has always really bothered me and I believe puts an immense amount of pressure on so many creatives. High fives for this answer!

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Love it, Amanda!

  281. Valerie Aucoin

    Oh Marie! This is the message I needed to confirm I made the right choice in getting a part-time gig while I build my side-hustle gigs in to real money streams. And get this… the new p/t gig is at a local drug store with a side of artsy flair to it… so I showed my new manager what I create and she offered me shelf space for selling my goods! Can I get a hells ya?!?

    • Congratulations!!!!
      When I got my full-time job, I learned how to incorporate project organization into my creative ideas. This led to an updated take on a long-standing book project.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      That is SO cool, Valerie! Way to go! ♥

  282. This is a great question, but my take is from a different angle. I want to quit my day job and focus full-time on my business, but I cannot seem to release the steady paycheck. I am still just staying afloat, but I work at work, then I go home and work some more, only to just barely get by. I dream of working at home, less than full-time, and making more than my full-time income. I do believe that someday the Universe will show me the way, but I am at a loss now.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Lisa, I absolutely hear you, and I know you’re not alone there in wondering about how to make that transition. We did another MarieTV episode a while back that talks about this, so I thought I might pass that one along in case it’s helpful:

      We’re sending our best wishes your way, and hope you find a way to make that transition when the timing is right!

  283. I fell in love with yoga when I retired from a very stressful job and I wanted to teach so I fronted the money and earned my RYT-200. My dream was to teach yoga to active, older adults. I accepted a job at a local community center and enjoy teaching a few classes there each week. I also accepted a “Continuing Education” job with my local community college teaching yoga for older adults on Saturdays. Both very rewarding and challenging in that I must train, continue learning, prepare, and be on. Not making much money. I still love yoga, enjoy teaching, enjoy my students, and personally receive the benefits.

  284. Arpit Kikani

    Hi Natalie,

    Hearing brilliant comments by Marie I am reminded of a wonderful book by Rhonda Byrene – It’s called the Hero and a quote from Paul Colheo’s The alchemiest which quotes – If you really desire something the whole universe will assist you in achieving your goals.

  285. Can’t seem to focus on one thing to try to produce some income, also need help with how to start making some money from the blog, or from writing, or video courses, or whatever? Everywhere I look, all I see is “buy my course for $x00.00 . . .”

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Charles, thank you so much for stopping by and for watching this episodes. We have some incredible MarieTV videos that can help you build a business and life you love, and they’re absolutely free! We have almost 300 episodes now on a wide variety of topics, so you’re welcome to explore those anytime.

      One great one to start with might be this one about starting in business:

      Our team is also happy to share more episodes on a specific topic, so feel free to reach out to us anytime at info AT marieforleo DOT com.

  286. What a timely question! I believe God is showing me the way also. I’ve been unemployed for 3 months trying to get my coaching business off the ground. But nothing’s happening and I got bills to pay. I’m also in the midst of writing a fiction novel. I have a job interview this Tuesday and wondering if I’m giving up. But thanks to this episode, now I know I shouldn’t expect my dreams to fund me. I will work to support them. Thanks, Natalie and Marie!

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      June, we’re so glad to hear this episode was timely for you – that means the world to hear! We’re sending our best wishes for so much success with your job interview this week! xo

  287. Having a day job is the best self-love I know! It means I can afford to pay for one-on-one writing classes with an awesome editor. I’ve wanted to work with her for years…but it took getting an 8 to 5. Because I’m not worried about $, I’m able to focus on writing.

    There were times I didn’t have work, so I cut back in other ways. Once after getting laid-off and my freelance work ended, I put my stuff in storage and did petsit/housesit gigs while I continued to send resumes. In between I couch surfed. I even traded accounting work 12 hours a week for a tiny guest room near the beach. I used this time to finish a book, and close the books on an earlier creative project.

    I was rewarded with landing a paid care taking job on a ranch. By then I had a full-time job, and still had pet-sitting clients. I busted my butt for a year job juggling. Now I feel blessed to have just one full-time job, and one book project.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Dorothy, thank you so much for sharing. I love thinking of a day job as self-love – that’s such a great way to look at it! ♥

  288. Natalie sounds like an awesome writer…that letter was beautiful. I feel and have felt the same way at times. I, like Marie said, decided that multiple streams of income was the message I was sending the Universe.

    I especially believe this if you take a job doing something else that you love. For example, I do Financial Therapy, but I love meditation, fitness, cooking, and tutoring so I could take a job doing any of those things if my practice was slow. The great thing is because I am happy to serve in any of those ways I would be able to continue my purpose outside of work because I would have energy left to do it. The love for the job would help because it would leave enough mental and emotional energy so I don’t feel too empty and drained to do what I love most, helping people use wealth to reach their hearts desire.

  289. Very sensible. Being able to do the work you love and support yourself doing so is the best of all worlds. But it isn’t always possible, especially in the beginning. It’s magical thinking to imagine that the Universe will conclude that a person is giving up if you have to find other sources of income. The arts, in particular, are a difficult way to make a living, but finding related means of earning a livelihood can be quite beneficial. In this realm , some things pop into mind such as writing or illustration for marketing others’ products; editing; teaching. These are just some off the top of the head ideas for work that would actually enhance one’s artistic skills and also sales skills for one’s own art.

    I really liked what you said, Marie, about supporting one’s art, rather than expecting one’s art to support the artist. To me, this is properly putting the vision for what one wants to create in the world in the drivers’ seat, where it belongs –as differentiated from focusing on what it can do for me! Thanks.

  290. This is a very brilliant video. I read something awhile back from an artist saying if you do what you love some of the time, you can be happy. Not doing it at all makes it unhappy.

    I’ve found having a day job gives me freedom to make choices that are more artistic than I would have been able to if I didn’t have a day job. I’ve also found as time passes more of my income can come from my art but at the same time the less it is necessary the better for the art. Thanks for an amazing video. We often tend to think of ourselves as failures as artists if we need a day job. This video is realistic, encouraging and thoughtful. It shows it isn’t an either or.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Yes!! That’s such a great point, David. We’re so glad you enjoyed this video, and we’re thrilled to have you tuning in with us!

  291. Marie:
    Yep, I’m one of those folks who has day, night, and weekend job(s) while working all the “other” hours on my “Got Goosebumps?” Spirituality practice. My head spins out from all of the uniforms, hats, personas I wear.
    A few weeks ago, at Target, I spotted one of my clients from my “legit” business, walking down the aisle towards my food demo stand. I shot down the first corridor, in a frantic pace. Luckily, I didn’t take anyone down in my haste. I hid amongst the bandaids, pain relievers, and birth control options.
    I was totally knee-jerk reactive. What if Mark sees me in my red apron and black cap, realizes I’m a failure, a flop, a measly hourly workerbee? Holy crap. I’m sunk.
    It happened again just last week. My heart rate went up to the point of heart attack levels, I was sweaty and nearly in tears when I saw my client, Maureen. I couldn’t help myself, I was really scared of being found out. A twerp in non-professional attire.
    Then yesterday, before I could bolt, a client spotted me. Pat came up with a huge smile of recognition. She hugged me, hard, since we hadn’t spoken in awhile. The fact that I was a farce, fake, stupid, and inept entrepreneur never came up – not in her words, nor on her face, not even in her body language. She was genuinely happy to have the connection again.
    Does this mean I won’t feel like crap the next time I see someone in my professional clan? Maybe not. But it’s a lesson I can hold close to my heart, knowing that much of what I need to understand and accept about human nature is in my heart, not my flight or FLIGHT response!
    Thanks for bringing this topic to all of us, to grow, learn, share, and be REAL!
    Love to you, Marie,
    Paula Hill
    Empath, Organizer, Dog Walker, Food Demo Worker

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      I love this story, Paula – thank you so much for sharing! There’s definitely never any shame in doing a multitude of jobs, or having day jobs in addition to your business. As someone who has worked several jobs at the same time myself, I know exactly how you feel, but I’ve found that people are typically happy to see you at another job. Many times they are even excited to hear about all the cool things you do!

  292. Cristina

    Dear Marie,
    Thank you for your post! It is always inspiring. However I have unclear thoughts about this topic. On one hand I agree that in case of need we should be pragmatic and get a job, even if it doesn’t fit with our personal realization or our vocation, but on the other hand, I cannot forget this poem (it is in Spanish but I am sure that if you do not understand it, someone in your team will help):
    “Muere lentamente
    quien se transforma en esclavo del hábito,
    repitiendo los mismos trayectos,
    quien no cambia de marca, no arriesga a vestir un color nuevo,
    quien hace de la televisión su guía,
    quien evita la pasión,
    quien no arriesga lo cierto por lo incierto para ir detrás de un sueño,
    quien no se permite por lo menos una vez en la vida, huir de los consejos sensatos.
    Muere lentamente quien no viaja,
    quien no lee,
    quien no oye música,
    quien no encuentra gracia en si mismo”. Pablo Neruda
    I have been always following my passion, my vocation, and now, some circumstances have forced me to be unemployed, and to be out of what I did before. What to do next? Get a stable, well paid, boring job in the public administration and stop dreaming? I see that this is what I have to do, but at the same time I am sooooo scared, I feel I will “die slowly” like Neruda says.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Cristina, thank you so much for watching this episode and commenting. It can feel really disheartening when you need to get a job in something that isn’t your passion, and I absolutely hear you there.

      As Marie shared in this episode, getting a day job or side job to help support a business or passion doesn’t mean you actually have to stop doing your passion and following your dreams. The way I like to look at it is that having a day job can be a source of support for our creativity by allowing us the freedom to worry less about finances.

      That means some people may have a day job for most of their lives, others may never work outside of their passions at all, and many others will have a combination of both. It’s all about finding what works best for you, but know that we firmly believe that taking on a day job absolutely doesn’t have to keep you from doing the things you love!

  293. Natalie, such a great question. And Marie, as always, great answer. Just wanted to leave my own experience here… I just switched jobs because I was sooooo stressed at my old job. And I mean like my health was at risk and I just didn’t enjoy what I was doing at all. You could say that crying in my office on the regular was a freaking sign from the Universe. So I began my search but with an enormous amount of fear. What if I found a new job and it turned out to be worse than this one? What if I can’t find anything else?! Should I just accept my fate and put my head down? It was a long search and at times I wanted to just give up BUT I found a new job. It wasn’t until I started the new job that I realized, it was actually less stressful, meaning I had more mental capacity to work on my blog and explore my interests. I was also making more money than before. All of this finally brought me to the realization that I got EXACTLY what I wanted and needed for that matter. It’s still surprising to me that this is where I ended up when things seemed so hopeless before. I am so thankful that I stuck with it and found a better situation for myself. It has opened so many new doors for me. I hope your new job opens up some seriously awesome doors for you too!

  294. Terrific!!! I agree and enjoyed this Vlog so much. I’m a writer and I can assure you that working a day job doesn’t mean anything; actually, having a day job can benefit your writing (other than the obvious, financial side) by meeting new potential fans, make connections, plus you can get some crazy ideas sometimes from your day job;-) Good luck to this new writer!

  295. Thanks for this perfectly-timed topic (in my life anyway). Marie, I’ve been ping-ponging back and forth with this same issue and your info really helped. I think clarity and making a decision is critical in this situation so THANKS twice now. I DO have one food-for-though observation about your tweet. My learning has included the Universe not hearing negative words like “not,” “never” — that it just erases those, so if one says, “You never have to give up your art to have a day job,” the Universe hears the opposite message: “You *****have to give up your art to have a day job.” Just sayin’… Blessings all around!

  296. Thanks for sharing this topic. I feel the same struggle. I’m currently working my full-time day job, taking care of a home, social life and working on my creative dream. Finding the balance is hard and something I struggle with every day.

  297. This is SO timely. I went thru B-School this past spring and made incredible progress on the re-branding/rebuilding of my business. I’ve been extremely excited about launching what I’ve created, but… I recently took a day job. And, I don’t know that I really NEEDED to, but it has helped relieve a little bit of stress from us financially. My husband tours with theatre and I’ve been an accompanying spouse the past 3 years, which means we funded the ability for me to travel along with him. This new show he started in the fall needed someone to sell merchandise and, in addition to paying me, they also cover all my travel. It’s probably the smallest commitment I could’ve filled on the tour that still pays my travel so it seemed really worth it. I also really enjoy doing it and being part of what he’s doing. However… I’ve really struggled with finding the time to finish up what needs to happen to launch my new business. Plus, once it launches, I need to have the time to take on new clients and I just lost all availability on evenings and weekends, with this position. So this has been a real challenge for me. I have 3 weeks coming up in December where I will be on a temporary layoff and I just the other day decided to use them to finalize everything with the launch and figure out how to make my schedule work moving forward. This episode has given me some encouragement that I didn’t make a big mistake in taking this position, so thank you SO much for this!! I’m also super relieved to know this doesn’t mean I’ve given up.

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much for your comment, Katti. It absolutely doesn’t mean you’ve given up — not at all, and not for a second! We’re cheering you on so much for working toward your launch and digging more into your business in December, and know that our little team is always in your corner! ♥

  298. The mantra “I will never ask you to provide for me financially, I will always provide for you” brought me to immediate tears. Thinking of my art as a human, in such personal terms, helped me put words to why I’m so attached to playing the clarinet. Even though I’m super lucky to have a husband that mostly supports our family, as a classical musician, I’ve found it really difficult to justify continuing to work super hard on my art when I feel I’m not really providing much to our life financially. It’s a really tough balance, especially with 3 busy children and being in school myself, to continue growing in music. I know I NEED to do this work. I stopped doing it for 8 years while my children were really young, but I felt called back to it and the doors opened wide for returning to school for a graduate music performance diploma. I will keep this quote near to me always, so that I can be reminded daily that doing what I love and what I’ve been called to do matters, despite the time it takes away from my family and barely making enough money to support it’s costs. Thank you, as always Marie, for the really important work that you’re doing! With love, Melissa

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much for watching and for commenting, Melissa. As a fellow classical musician, I know wholeheartedly that the work you’re doing matters, and we’re cheering you on all the way! ♥

  299. Thank you Marie! I always enjoy your videos, you are very inspirational and always keep it real:)

  300. For the very first time in my life, I quit my real job to pursue a “hobby” or art or whatever you want to call it. I was fed up with the corporate world and how it was responding to women who were climbing the corporate ladder and I felt inspired and compelled to author a book. I am finishing it now and hope to have it public just after the new year.
    Today this message was the absolute perfect message for me because, now after 6 months of no BIG salary, I am stressing.
    I am committed to publish this book and one day be interviewed by you, Marie! But I can promise you that once this book hits the shelves in a few months I am going back to work. I thrive on the adrenaline of a day job, the success, the paycheck and the sale. Thank you for affirming me that even though I will one day be a full time public speaker and motivator – in the meantime I will be an employee! Thanks – #successwithoutapology

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      Awesome! Go Rachael!

  301. This was just what I need to hear this week! I’ve been struggling with whether to carry on Freelancing whilst I grow my own business. Unfortunately haven’t won the lottery yet, so still need to pay the bills until my business grows to a certain point. I had to pitch for a freelance interview this week, and had to consider how I phrased explaining how running my own business was actually an asset rather than a perceived negative. I’m hoping the former… waiting to get a response!

    • Caroline - Team Forleo

      We’re crossing our fingers for you, Laura! 🙂 xoxo

  302. Appreciate it intended for giving that subject matter. I find myself identical challenge. I’m at this time doing the job the full-time time task, attending to your dream house, societal lifetime in addition to working away at the resourceful wish. Picking out the sense of balance is usually tricky and something When i have trouible with everyday.

  303. Thomas

    Sometimes you can leverage a day job in ways above and beyond being paid, to get your real work done. For example, I used to work for a TV shopping channel. Now there aren’t many Oscars to be won in TV shopping. But at the weekends I used to sneak into the video editing suites to cut together documentaries. Films are like books – very, very difficult to make money from them, but without the day job I probably would not have got anything done at all.

  304. lanie

    Thank you very much for this wonderful episode.

  305. Stacie

    I’ve been following Marie for sometime, and I have thought about contributing to the conversation before. But this one really resonated with me. I was once a traditional age college student who ended up being a dropout (the transition to small fish from big fish can be tough on perfectionists that were once used to the grades coming easily). Years later I returned to college and finished a degree in English. I then started a graduate education until I hit a financial roadblock. Still, I managed to somewhat be grandfathered in to a small but growing university as an adjunct prof for 7 years (until now). Here’s the thing, I initially pursued a career as a writing instructor, with the goal of supporting a writing career. Somewhere along the way I completely forgot about being a writer and researcher myself – I love my students and quickly became a person who was much more interested in the teaching itself. But I knew my time would run out, and if I didn’t get that balance paid, and finish out the MA in comp and rhet my number would come up. And it did.
    But here is the kicker. For the past 7 years I have struggled living on starvation wages, and only recently had opened up my eyes to other opportunities within the field of writing. I have held two to three jobs most of my adult life but during these years I kept myself confined to other positions within the university (research assistant, writing consultant in the writing center, etc.). And when the university made changes that no longer allowed adjunct faculty to also hold staff positions, I was devastated (to the tune of around an additional grand a month income).
    When I first received an email telling me that my course had been given to another instructor, and that I needed to finish up the MA to be considered for any future appointments, I really felt like my world was crashing down. I had recently taken on a part time bartending gig (second run for me as I did this in my early 20’s as well).
    This conversation really appeals to me because the holidays are approaching and I actually have time to enjoy them. I needed to make a move to get out ofthe hamster wheel I had been on for sometime. I make more money bartending than I do teaching and I get to come home and just be myself – a mom, a writer, an artist, a voice, a wife, a foodie, a music lover….all the magical things that make me so very happy.
    For the first time in years I feel more alive. I no longer worry about my electric being turned off, or losing my internet when I have 100 papers to grade. And I have time to refocus and gather myself. I am writing more again, reading more again, painting, serving others…doing all the things that make me who I am.
    At times I feel as though the universe will speak to us or force us to make a move that deep down…we really need to make. I have a lot to give this world and the context of my strained existence was draining me physically, emotionally and spiritually.
    I’m glad this question was asked and you addressed it Marie. I won’t look back but I do wish I would have managed to arrive at this mindset years ago. Although I am sure I was supposed to grow from the challenges I was given.

    • Mandy - Team Forleo

      Thank you so much for sharing your