Elizabeth Gilbert: On Love, Loss & The Courage To Begin Again

Can we introduce. This is.

Pepita.

So for those of you guys listening on the podcast, you really got to go watch it on the YouTube because Pepita is beyond.

Pepita.

Sitting in my lap right now. Oh my. I know this is mostly an audio format, but for the video aspect of it, for the.

YouTubers, the people who are smart or watching.

My dog, otherwise known as my actual human child. Yes, yes, scientists don't understand how it is possible that this six year old rescue dog was born out of my actual body. But she was.

She was. Oh, I sometimes feel that way about Puma. I'm like, oh, I have never given birth to a human child. But this is my boy.

This is my baby. So she'll be joining us today. Oh, we love that. And I'm so happy to see you. And I'm so happy to be able to talk to you.

And I'm I was so happy to get this book in your hands as fast as I humanly could.

Yes, yes. So we there's so much to talk about. And I love, that we get to go to all the places. So let's set the stage just with the title alone, all the way to the river. What does that mean? And it sort of sets us up to get into all the other juicy ness of of what you've shared with us in this gift.

Well, okay, so a little background about this story. This is a book about my love story and my harrowing journey with my best friend turned partner, Ray Elias. We had 17 years of friendship, and then 18 months of a love story. Toward the end of her life, she was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic and liver cancer. And at that point, I was unable anymore to pretend that she wasn't actually the love of my life.

And so I left my marriage to be with her. And, and I it was my intention to be her caregiver until she died. And we had six months of amazing romance. And then we had we had.

Like, a blind side that was like one. And a lot of this book is about.

How do you survive the blind sides of life, that no matter how well you think you are planning, orchestrating and organizing your life, you get the whiplash of like, oh, I thought this was going to be this kind of story. And it turned into that kind of story. She relapsed back into active drug addiction. I relapsed in a really big way back into, like a most degraded version of myself, of deep codependency and enabling.

And we went to some very dark places. And then she put the drugs down, another plot turn sort of got well, got and then died of cancer.

And then I was left like, what?

Just literally happened. And so the title, the short version of the title is that when she started dying, we started calling her death the River. And she said, I want you to walk with me all the way to the river. The longer version of the title is that all the way to the river is is a term she used to use for the person who knows you the best in the entire world, the deepest intimacy that you can have.

And she based it on the map of Manhattan. So it's essentially she was like, who's your friend? Just going to walk all the way to the East River with you from the center, where things are just superficial to the edges where there's no more hiding, there's no more there's nothing like the deepest level of knowing somebody that can be known.

And and she always said, you're my all the way to the river, friend. And I was so proud of that. But also your New Yorker, anyone who's ever walked from the center of Manhattan to the East River, especially on the Lower East Side, knows it's not necessarily always a very nice walk. And knowing to truly be known and to know somebody at that level can also be harrowing.

And you'll see aspects of themselves, of them and yourself that you maybe wish you hadn't seen. There's it's it's challenging to know, as a human being at the level that I knew Raya and that she knew me. And, and sometimes we know people so well, we have to recover from that.

We have to.

Recover from them, and we have to recover from our story with them. And and that's what the book is about.

Did you start writing this soon after she passed? Because it's been I did some math seven years and eight months and a little bit of change.

I started writing about Raya the minute I found out she was dying. Like the day that she got a terminal cancer diagnosis, I knew that I was going to have to write my way through this horror because the experience that I had and again, this isn't this isn't something that can be escaped. All of us are going to experience this at some point in our lives.

The person okay.

It's okay.

Peter. But it makes sense. You know why? I know it's because we're in New York and there's doors that are closed.

Doors are going to continue to open.

But here's what's great about Pepita. Pepita is like, I'm looking out for I.

Know.

I'm looking out for my crew.

She's just excuse me, miss. That's okay, that's okay. Thank you. Good job. Thank you. The person who you at some point.

In your life, at some point in your life, the person who you.

Love and care about more than anyone else in the entire world. It's it's going to be lost. Yeah. Whether.

You know, if you're lucky, you'll go. You'll die first. Honestly, I mean, I.

I can't remember who the comedian was who had a whole bit about this.

That was like, like, wait, the best case scenario is that one of you buries the other one. You know what I mean? Like, but like, this is this.

Is the contract, here in Earth school, like, this is this is it. And the person who Raya was, the person who I felt like was the ground beneath my feet the most foundational, the one I couldn't live without. I'm like, you know, we're always negotiating with reality, and we're always negotiating with what I call God, which is another word for reality.

And my negotiation was always like, you could take anyone else.

Got a long list. In fact, I've got a long list. God of people. The people you can kind of people you could have taken before you took Raya. You know what I mean? And I bet we all do. Yeah. No. And it's like, wait, this is like, you look at the world and you're like, no, this is the person you're going to take really.

Right.

You know, and the answer is yes, really. And, and that I experienced that news that she had been given six months to live as a kind of existential horror that was, I would say, deeper than any existential horror I have ever felt before. And the only way I know to get out of existential horror is that I've got to write my way out of it.

So I started writing, chronicling, and it wasn't even like I was like, she wanted me to write a book about her, but it was more that I was. I just needed the writing as a way to get through. So the book is a culmination of the notes that I was taking during that time, the notes that I was taking after she died, the poetry and the prayers that I was writing, my journal entries, drawings, photographs.

Like it's almost I wanted the book to feel sort of 3D.

Like that's what it does feel like. I yeah, the poetry I didn't know, like, I don't know how I didn't know this about you, but I was like, wait, where is this coming from?

I didn't write poetry before I got sick. So I also.

Did not know this.

Okay? I was just like.

Because it's.

Stunning. And the drawings, like, I saw it when I got this, golly, it was in the, you know, summertime still now I was on the beach and Josh was like, what? It was like. I was like, I was just so moved that it is not only 3D, but it feels. It feels otherworldly in a way that is. And again, everything I've read of yours is beyond magical and obviously, you know, the world knows so much of that, but this just presses into different levels of the cosmos in such a 3D way, so successful beyond successful in that regard.

And like, this is just me curious because you know me, I'm like a curious cat about everything. Yeah. It's like when you're chronicling or taking notes, do you just always carry around like a little journal, or do you have like journaling time in the morning, like, I know, letters from love and that that kind of personal practice? Yeah.

But how do you approach it? Otherwise voice memos are just like, just scribbling down notes.

Voice memos, scribbling down notes, letters from love journaling. You know, it's when I was writing eat, pray, love. Yeah. I had a little notebook with me all the time while I was traveling, and I would jot down things. And then at the end of the day, I would compile what I had written into my journals. And then when I was done with that, when it was time to write the book, I had like a three foot tall stack of journals, and then I just paged.

Believe it. I only went through it once, but I went through it really fast, and I just felt it's like, you know, The Water Diviner is like somebody who like, it's a mystical ability to find water. Yes. There are people who like. And they take a stick. I think it's a willow stick or willow branch, and they can walk over the ground and they can feel where the water is under the ground.

So that's how I read my journals, what I'm going to write. I'm just feeling for what belongs in a book. Yes. You know, and so when it finally came time to sit down and write this book, I mean, I had thousands of pages of notes, thousands of pages of notes, and also an earlier draft of the book that was written as this weird little novella that was fictional because I was like, maybe I can tell this story fictionally, and I don't have to expose.

Myself for her, you know? And then this other version of the book that was just poems.

I'm like, maybe I can just talk about how.

Things feel without talking about what happened, you know? And it was like, honey, you know, after like six years of that, God was like, girl. Actually, Raya was like, girl. Yes, sit.

Down and write the living shit out of this book. And you have to say exactly what happened. And so then it was just a compilation of everything.

Yes. Which brings me actually to I love how you open with the visitation. Like I loved this and about this, as you had called it, the supernatural Dixie Cup system that you both had right after she passed. Can you just tell us a little bit about that party in L.A., which, again, I'm cracking up where The intuitive came up to you, and then what Reyes said to you.

In the.

Conversation in your head. And I was I.

Got I'm dying.

So much.

The dead die, but they don't always leave. And some people die and leave, and some people die and don't leave. And it's not quite the same thing as a ghost. This is how I've come to sort of understand it viscerally, in my own experience. It's just that in spirit, they decide to stick around and stay close and help, you know?

And Raya stuck around me very closely immediately after her death, to the point that I would say to people, Raya is more vivid and present in death than most people are in life. I mean, Raya was always very vivid and very present, but I'm like, she's still to me, the most vivid presence in this room. And she's not even here.

You know, like, she is still the funniest person in the room. She's still the alpha in the room.

She's still dominating like everybody in this room.

She's talking everybody out. Yeah, you know.

And and she's still in conversation with me, like. And it was direct communion. Like she was talking to me all day. Like, you know, all I had to do is ask her question. She would answer it. She was so vividly present. So one example, and it was like such a comfort because it was like, oh, she's right here.

Yes.

You know, and I was at this event in LA about six months after Raya died and this woman came up to me.

And it's such an L.A. story. Yes. This when we came up to me and she was like.

Hi, Elizabeth. I first of all, I know when someone calls.

Me Elizabeth that they don't know me. Yes. You're like, I'm like, you don't know me. Here we go. You know? And, and she's like, I.

I understand that your partner passed recently, and I'm so sorry for your loss, but I want to tell you that, she's been coming to me recently in dreams and visions. I'm an IT professional, intuitive, and I have an instinct for this. And, she wants, you know, she wants to communicate with you. And Raya said inside my head, tell this to shut the up.

Tell this she can right off. Right. And I was, like, trying so hard not to laugh. And and the woman takes her business card and she hands it to me, and she's like.

You know, here's my business card. If you ever want to jump on a call. Raya would like, if you want to have direct communication.

With Raya and Raya goes, tell this she can jump directly up my dead ass, right? Like it was just so. And I'm, like, smiling it to say thank you. Thank you for your concern. I really appreciate it. But it was exactly like the way that the way. And this just.

Makes me want to cry right now. But I know there are people who get this, like in a crowded room.

Yes, we would just give each.

Other a look and not tiny little glance would be an entire historical story.

Like we'd see somebody doing something. We'd just be like, you get this. Like you say, like you saying this, we're going to check in about this later. Like.

Or Raya would give me a look as my she was always my bodyguard. Where like somebody would be. Especially after we pray love somebody would be approaching me in some and she'd be like, to why?

She's like, do you need me to come over here? It's are we good? Are we like. And she would just, like clock the room and be like, you know who's who's coming for my friend right now, you know.

So that presence got me through. It didn't take grief away, but she she was with me in my grief for such a long time, and I don't I truly do not know how I would have survived it raised to say. And she said this even as she knew she was dying. I'm not going to leave until we're both ready.

And I was not ready when she left, and she wasn't either.

So she didn't leave. Yeah. Yes. Right.

She stuck around and now I feel that she has left. She may still be showing up for other people who she feels aren't ready for her to leave, but with me, that presence is not here. Like it's every once in a while. Now I'll get a moment, a real moment, but for the most part, I'm like, nope, she's not here.

And that must mean that she knows that I'm ready to live. Because I wasn't after she died.

Yeah, I mean, I again, it makes me cry right now because I was actually thinking as I was going through and I was talking to this, I was like, oh my gosh. So this book, because it's it is so gorgeous on every level. I was curious if she, like, came back around, you know, at this moment, just because I have never witnessed a story like this before, you know?

And it is. It's just amazing. Anyway, it's so dramatic. There's so many twists and turns. There's so many like, wait, what? Like left hand side kind of things. And you shared that what you thought would be your most beautiful love story actually turned into your biggest nightmare. So what have you come to understand about this notion that, like sometimes getting the thing that we think we want, like getting exactly what we want is the worst thing that happens.

And I love that you mentioned this several times. It's like the fact that God has jokes. God has lots of jokes.

Listen, first of all, I just thought.

A really great alternative.

Title for this book would be wait, what? Yes. But I actually think.

I mean, I've often said that all of us by the age of 40, could write a memoir called Not Exactly What I planned.

You know, but like, we could all.

Also write a memoir called. Wait, what? Because, like, life in human form. Oh, is that.

Yes.

You know, and and what I feel like my and I, and I believe I live in a friendly universe. Yeah, right. I believe I live in a friendly universe, which I think is a really important question to like, do you believe this is a friendly university? You believe this is a malicious or indifferent universe? I believe I live in a friendly universe.

So the wait, what are like wait, really? Like this is this is the outcome. So one thing there's this great, you know, Richard War, the theologian Richard Burr, he's amazing. Wonderful.

Only from your writing. He.

He has this wonderful line that I think is true. And again, I use the word God a lot, but it can just mean the universe, the Dao, the way. Yeah, the cosmos, destiny, you know, reality, you know, is always another good word for God. But like he said, if there's one thing we can know about God by looking at what's the present, what's what appears to be happening on earth, is that God really seems to love freedom.

Really seems to love freedom because God gives all of us an almost infinite amount of it. You have so many choices, every single minute of the day. It's like choice, choice, choice, choice, choice all the time. And I have a God who doesn't stop me from doing anything that I think is a great idea.

You know, like, I'm like, I've got a good idea and God's like, okay.

Yes, you know, I'm going to let you do that. Yeah, I'm going to let you do that. I'm going to let you get married again. I'm going to let you get married again.

I'm going to let you do that. Yeah.

Like I'm going to let you leave that marriage to go be with your best friend. I'm going to let you do that. Like I'm going to let you keep doing that. I'm going to let you keep doing and fill in the blank in your own life, y'all. I'm going to let you keep doing that thing that you keep doing until you until you're satisfied.

Right? Like until you've done it so many times, you know, and we all know this line about like, addiction is a bad idea. You keep repeating.

Right? Yes. It's such a simple.

Like, it's like you get this bad idea and then you're like, I'm going to do that. Bad idea. Yes.

I you know what? I think I'm gonna do that bad idea again.

I'm going to keep doing that bad idea. So, so many times in life I've been given the opportunity of infinite choice. And I'm like, I'm going to make that same decision again, and I'm going to make. And for me, what that looks like. And I do identify as a sex and love addict in active recovery, what that looks like is somebody is going to make me whole.

Somebody is going to love me into wellness, somebody is going to meet me, match me, complete me, see me, save me, fulfill me. Is it you? Is it you? Is it you? Is it you and God's like? Keep. Keep trying. You'll keep trying that. Like keep trying that like, hey.

Try someone else. Try a woman.

Like try try it. Open relationship.

Yeah, yeah. Closed relationship.

Try somebody older. Try somebody younger.

Try somebody who loves you more than you love them. Try somebody who.

You love more than they love you. Try somebody who's really bad to try.

Somebody who's really good to you. Like.

I mean, I have put in the hours. Marie.

I have put in the hours. I have fully done my research on this. I am 56 years old.

And for 35 uninterrupted years, this is what I did. I went from person to person to person to person. And with Ray I was like, but I really know this person. Yeah, this has been my best friend. Like, there's not going to be I can't know anybody better than this. There will be no surprises here.

Yes. That's like, okay, go. Okay. Go ahead honey.

Go ahead and do that. Not so that you can be punished, but so that you can learn. Yeah. You know, because I live by the Earth school motto. This is Earth school.

Yes. So. Which I don't even know how because I never share my questions in advance. But this is exactly where we're going next. So I loved losing my my stuff on the beach. Or perhaps we can see it this way. So the Earth School model.

Yeah.

Which I am aligned with. And I love the question that you have, which many of us can ask ourselves that many points in life, like, why me? Like, what the hell did I do karmically in this life journey? I mean, like, this has got to be punishment, Catholic here. And it's a super un useful question to ask.

And you. Right. Maybe the way more fruitful question again, this issue, your words. How might this terrible situation be perfectly designed to help me evolve? I was like, yeah.

I guess so.

It's share the Earth School model and we can kind of dive into that.

Yeah, I mean, Earth School is a concept that's a that that many cultures have lived by. Certainly in the East. This is definitely considered to just be understood like Earth is a school for souls. You come here voluntarily. So first of all, why me? Because you volunteered. Yeah. Right. So like. And you volunteered for this exact curriculum. Yeah.

Like you designed the curriculum. Your soul designed this exact curriculum so that you could have experiences that could not be had any other way. And when you look around, even at our universe, as far as we know it, like so far, one thing we can definitely know about Earth, it's a very special place like this. Whatever's happening here isn't does not appear to be happening anywhere else.

Like we can all agree on that. Like something very interesting is happening here. Yes. And and the fact that we have consciousness and that we're aware that we're aware, the fact that every parent that I ever know have ever met has said about their child, they were born this way. Yeah. They showed up with this exact personality.

Yes. Like hardwired like the fact that we seem to be hard wired to our talents. We seem to be hard wired to our frailties. Like we show up with a sort of like, this is who I am. This is where my troubles lie. This is where my gifts are. Okay, what's the curriculum? Yeah. No. And and so this idea is like, there's a quote from Mark Twain that I put in the book that I love, which is, a man who picks up a cat by the tail, learn something he cannot learn any other way, like so much of our lives is about just picking up cats.

By the tail and, you know, maybe multiple cats multiple times. Maybe it'll work better if it's a Siamese cat. I don't know anyone. Just having these lessons.

And being like, how can I grow? Yeah, right. And, and then this idea that is repeated through many cultures, too, that you've got these soul contracts with other people who show up, who volunteer to be your challengers. Another word for that is abuser, right? But it's like, oh, you showed up offering to be my alcoholic parent. Yes.

My unfaithful partner, my child who breaks my heart, my tyrannical boss, my awful neighbor like you. You're showing up in these roles. We take on these roles and out of love for each other, we volunteer to do these terrible things to each other until we can change. Yes. All right. Byron Katie, I remember like, one of the last workshops I ever took with her.

At the end, she just said, people are going to grind at you and grind at you and grind at you until you change. They're helping you, until you grow, until you transform that. And she says, everyone in the world is enlightened except me. They're all here to help me get enlightened. Everyone's playing a role to help me get enlightened, right?

But first of all, how much we love her.

I love, love, love, love.

Love.

That the notion of soul contracts. I forget where I first read it or heard it, but I remember distinctly stumbling across that and my whole body resonated. Yes, that there was some deep well of truth that I had forgotten that was so accurate about it. And anytime I just have conversations with people like sometimes like, you know, I feel out a little bit if they're a friend or colleague, I'm like, do you know anything about soul contracts?

And I'm like, no, wait, what's that? And then I just share my understanding and they're like, wow, it really makes a lot of sense. And so in the book, when you talked about your friend Barb's notion and specifically and again, I loved the cinematic nature of this because I love imagery. Greetings from the Cosmic Boardroom. Yeah. And so I love just to like, play with this a little bit more and, and correct me anywhere that I didn't get this right.

But this, this idea that even before a body like we're sitting around a huge boardroom with all of these other souls and with our little curriculums in hand and okay, I need someone who's going to play this part. Yeah. You know, and there's and I loved and again, this is my interpretation of it. But I was like, oh there's all these people like, oh, I'm going to be the loving best friend or I'm going to be the, you know, the neighbor, this, that.

And yet and then someone is really brave and says, I'm going to be the one that abuses you.

Yeah, I'll do it for you.

I'll do it for you, honey.

I'll do that. Yes. Yeah, I'll give you that. I'll give you that.

Gift like it makes you want to.

Cry, you know?

And Barb and Barb and I talk about this all the time, and Barbies talk about this with Reya because they were really good friends. So we were all in agreement that this is what was happening. And, and, and Barb and I will now look at each other when something's going down and go, greetings from the boardroom. Right. Greetings from the boardroom, you know, and and just, you know, and we always talk about that moment in the boardroom where somebody where someone's like, I'm going to need an abuser because this is the lifetime where I'm going to learn how to stop being abused.

Like, this is the lifetime where I'm actually going to find my own value. So I'm going to need some people to push me really hard on this. I'm going to need some parents who treat me like garbage. Yep. I'm going to need partners who constantly tell me that I'm a piece of shit and that I'm unworthy. Like, because there's no other way that I'm going to get this.

Like, I've got like I've done it ten lifetimes and I didn't get it.

Because the other thing is, when you're born, you forget that you agreed to all this, right? So you're like, what's going on?

You know, and like and it's like. And then there's always somebody like in the back at the boardroom was like, I'll do it. I'll do it again. I'll do it. It's going to suck for me and it's going to suck for you. But like, I'll do it.

I'll do it. And and yeah, this is the way to see it. Martha Beck has this beautiful interpretation of like, the three levels of evolution that it starts with.

Why is this happening to me? Which is just.

Panic and victimization. And then as you start to sort of breathe through it, the next level is curiosity. Why is this happening to me. Right. Same words but just a different tone. And then the final realization when you see the gift in it and you see this aura of like the machinations of the universe and all that you have to gain and be given by this, that you feel so humbled and amazed that you actually are like, why is this happening to me?

I'm like, how did I get so lucky, so smart, so many times that you had said, like, you think you.

You think you're going to get something and you get something else. Yeah. So in a way it all circles kind of around itself, where it's like the thing I thought was going to be the best thing that ever was going to happen to me, turns out to be the worst thing that's ever going to happen to me. And that in turn, becomes the best thing that ever happened to me.

Yeah, but when you're in the worst part of it, you cannot see that.

Absolutely not. No. And anyone who says find the gift in this, it's like, I want to punch you in the face.

Yeah, I've got a gift. It's my middle finger in your face.

And yet all of us have been through things where ten, 20 years down the road, you're like, oh, now I see.

Yes.

Why that had to be taken away from me, right? I never would have and I would never wish it on anyone else. Yes, but now I see.

Now I see. So I want to cruise around a brief history of women over giving. You and I share a lot of passion about this particular topic. And I also want to thank you because I had never gone down, the rabbit holes of specific terms around codependency, and I never heard the term larva before. Yeah. So for anyone who is maybe like me listening, tuning in today, share with me what larva is and what have you come to understand around the so many of us women who give of ourselves to death.

Love, approval, validation and acceptance? Larva. It's what a lot of us are seeking. Yes, right. And it's what a lot of us will abandon ourselves for in multiple egregious ways for ever to get, because we have been taught that we actually cannot survive without getting these things from external sources, especially women. Right. What do I have to become?

What do I have to shapeshift into to get larva from you? And the thing that can become really insidious and I've because I did all this research for everyone so that you don't have to.

Although I bet you all did it too. Like.

Sometimes you'll meet somebody who gives you such an incredible dose of larva that it's. I mean, that's my drug that I mean, I've used and abused drugs and alcohol in other ways, but nothing compares to larva. Like, if you can pour that on me. Like infinite love, approval, validation and acceptance. The high, the other worldly high that I can go into is incredible, is the best feeling in the entire universe.

I have been chasing that ever since my first kiss when I was 13 years old. I'm like, this.

Is like this feeling.

Is the thing. And it doesn't help that our entire culture reiterates that with every single cultural offering. Yeah, every single advertisement, every single song, every single movie, every single like piece of.

Technology and.

Everything is like, all about and and every romantic story that you've ever heard is like, we're constantly being told, this is what you're here for is to get this. Yeah, you've got to get this, and you've got to walk it down.

And keep it.

And keep.

It. And if it starts like moving away.

What? Don't. No, no you don't you do not remove the love.

Attention, validation and acceptance from me. Once you've gotten me addicted to it from you. Yes. Right. So once, once. I think you're my source of that. And then you take it away. I'm going to Jones so hard. I'm going to crash so hard, and then my manipulation is going to pop up where it's like, what do I have to do to keep this?

Yeah. Like, what do I have to give you? What do I how do I have to make you see me in a particular way so that I can get even, like a crumb of it back, and that you used to give to me so freely. And that's now we're in hell. That's. That becomes the ninth circle of hell.

It's an incredibly dangerous thing for me to go looking for that outside of myself and outside of what I call God. It is where I get sick and it's where I get lost. And, I'm a pretty tough case of this. Like, I like, as I said, like I fully identify as a sex and love addict. There are people who can navigate that with much less drama and trauma than I can.

But for a multitude of family history.

Cultural history, karma.

Contracts from the boardroom. This is my Achilles heel. Yeah, like, this is where I. This is where I hurt myself again and again and again and where I hurt others. And the need to get that lava from people turns me into a vampire who goes out there and tries to procure that substance that she needs to survive, without which I feel like life has no meaning.

Not anymore, but without which I have traditionally, historically felt like what has no meaning.

And what's that chasm been for you? Like, what time are we looking at now between when you feel rooted in a more free version? Yeah. Of less than you had known your entire life.

It's been six and a half years. Wow. And and I saw you at one of my last rock bottoms. When I first came to do an interview and showed up, and I was a sobbing wreck, and we had to postpone the interview because I couldn't function, and you were like, okay, you're going to we're going to slap on some earrings.

Yes, yes. No. Like, honey, if I give you these nice big earrings to put on, like, do you think we could do the interview, you know, and, Yeah.

And that was like the last. That was my last run.

I mean, I also remember, too, because I was thinking back as I was reading these stories when you invited me to the penthouse party, and. Yeah, you took me in and I was like, wait a minute, where did this apartment come from? And you're like, I just got it. I was like, how the hell did you how did all this happen?

And you.

You.

Your face was so clear, you were like, honey, we don't have much time. Yeah. And I was like. And my heart broke because I was starting to thread all these pieces together. Yeah. Having known you for a while. Yeah. It's just like. I just want to say, though, congratulations. Because it's such a it's so beautiful. How, like the the generous gift that you're giving all of us by sharing these stories.

And then where you are now, it is it's just so.

Hopeful. Thank you. Dear. There's a line. It's in the book and an old timer in 12 steps that it to me and I love it. And they said addiction is giving up everything for one thing. And recovery is giving up one thing. For everything. So routinely in my life, I have given up everything for one thing, that thing being.

I was about to say that thing being a person. But it isn't really a person. That thing being lava. Like a who's embodied in that who whatever put the name and face on whoever it is in any given year. Yep. Who I've decided is my source and I've given up routinely my dignity, my money, my creative path, my friendships, my work where I lived.

Like just, yeah, throw it on it. Like throw it on the fire. I don't need it. Like I throw everything on the fire for that. I came into a contract with that. That God who gave me so much freedom all those years, who gave me enough rope to.

To.

Hang myself and everyone else. Just like. Because that guy was always like, try it. Like, really? And not in a sinister way. Just try it. Like, do you think drugs will make you happier? Try it. Yeah. Do you think shopping will make you happier? Try it. Right. Whatever. Whatever the thing is like, try it. Go ahead and try it.

Like, do you think gaming, gambling, smoking, alcohol, like controlling other people. Try it. Yeah, sweetheart. Try it. Go try it as hard as you can. Try it. And what? I finally heard through all my chaos was this loving, infinite voice that said. I've given you 50 years to try everything that's available and everyone that's available to be happy.

Have you had enough? If you haven't, go try more like go do DMT, go do ayahuasca, go do mushrooms. Go like I don't want there to be any part of you that thinks that there might be something you didn't try yet. Try therapy. Try this. Try like try it. Really, honey? Try it. And when you've tried everything and that ancient ache of emptiness is still there, come to me.

But I want you to come to me voluntarily. I'm not going to make you come to me. Like come to me when? When you're curious about me. And then let me show you what I can give you. But. But come to me empty handed. Come to me without any of your addictions. Put it all down and just come to me open and empty handed.

And then let's see what we can become. Right? And so the giving up everything was like putting. I finally put down my search for lava outside of myself. I was like, I'm just going to stop doing that.

I'm just going to.

Stop doing that, and I'm going to see what fills that void when I stop doing that. And it wasn't easy. I mean, I went through like a year and a half of pretty severe withdrawal because this, that screaming addict in me was like, are you kidding me? Like, you're going to put this thing down. The only thing that ever felt good.

And I remember an old timer in the room saying one time, you don't think every single one of us in here had to put down the only thing that ever felt good? Like every single one of us did that. So we did it because the thing that felt good was killing us. Eventually. What if you put it down?

And what if you look for something that doesn't end? Because the problem with all the things that we're doing to try to feel good is that they come to an end. And then you have to have the withdrawal and you have to have the letdown and the collapse. And I don't think I can take another one of those, like, I can't do another come down.

I just, I, my system can't take it anymore. Yeah. No. So what do we replace it with the something that doesn't end. And what is that, like love. Real love. The real. The real thing. Like the real thing. The infinite thing.

So women over giving some of the stats around that. Anything you want to share there.

Oh, do you know I do, sister. Oh do you know anything about do.

Anything about women over. Give it.

I can't say this enough.

Yes.

The actual scientific and sociological data is in.

This is not. This is not my opinion.

Tell us the actual facts of the matter are that marriage is an institution that is absolutely terrible for women. It is a garbage deal. A friend of mine said recently if marriage benefited women, they would have taken it from us already, right? Because they're taking away everything else that's good for women.

But they're like, get married. Yeah, you should get married, though. Yeah, right.

Married women do not live as long as single women. They do not earn as much money as single women. They are not as happy as single women. They are more likely to suffer from addiction than single women. They are more likely to commit suicide than single women. They are more likely to die of homicide than single women.

They report themselves in every single way that you can measure sociological data for wellness as being less contented than single women. Interesting. Interesting, given that it's the goal that you are taught, is the thing that if you can achieve, is going to make you happy. Conversely, married men and this is all this research has been done on men and women.

No research has been done on women and women, men and men. I'll get to that in a little bit. But traditional cisgendered heterosexual marriage married men, on the other hand, married to women outperform single men by such a measure that it is perhaps the healthiest thing that a man can do is to get a woman to marry him.

They were married. Men live longer, they're healthier. They make more money. They advance more in their careers. They're more creative. They're less likely to commit suicide. They're less likely to die of homicide. They're less likely to die of car and car accidents in every single possible way. The best thing a man can do is to get married to a woman.

The worst thing a woman can do, statistically speaking.

Is to get married to a man. Because what happens is those it's called the marriage benefit imbalance. Those imbalances are exactly equal, meaning the percentage of herself that a woman gives to a man, she loses and he gains. So she's literally giving her life to him. Literally. Yes. Life force, years of life prosperity. Like, literally, it's a literal exchange.

So this is what is called the marriage benefit imbalance. But it is it is indicative to of just in general, how women are like, it's not just in marriage like companies that have women on the board outperform companies that don't have women on the board by 25%. Yet corporate life destroys women, right? So women come in and they're like, I'll give so much that this entire company is going to.

Benefit, but I'm going to actually go down and this entire thing. Yeah, right.

Like rehab facilities that are coed, the men do better than rehab facilities that are just for men. It's great the men get sober. The women don't, because the women are instantly a woman sees a man and she's like, let me help them.

Instantly.

They're like, let me help him. Let me save him. Let me rescue him. Like I'm going to make it okay for it. Like instantly. It's what women do. In coed schools for.

Children like this, for girls, two girls schools. Send your boys to coed schools and let other people's girls like they don't do as well academically. But the boys do better. It's like every single place.

Where you put women and men together. The men benefit and the women do not.

It's so fascinating everywhere. I feel like like this notion that over giving notion, this is what I wanted to talk about this a little bit because, you know, rather than me, like this, us versus them, it's like, oh, where can I get curious? At least this is my perspective on it. Where can I get curious in my own life?

I have my own program on doing this. Correct.

And why am I doing this act?

And like, you know, the marriage thing and people always laugh and Josh and I always we, we joke about it because we're not technically married, but somebody's like, oh, your husband Josh? I'm like, oh, okay. Like you don't. I mean, it's not there. And I just have always felt for myself personally, I'm like, I just don't need or want that piece of paper.

Like, I love, love, I love being in this relationship, but I the over giving thing, like I have to watch for it at every part of my life. And also to I think there's a lot of law around, especially in like personal development circles and even in like entrepreneurship and creator circles. It's like, okay, you know, this is kind of an interesting, tricky high wire act of like being of service, you know what I mean?

And giving your gifts. And like, I've certainly been a champion of that message, you know what I mean? It's like the world needs that special gift that only you have. Yes, but not at the expense.

Of.

Everything else.

Yeah. You know.

So it's like,

If there's something I could like.

Wave over every woman, over.

Everyone who identifies as a woman. And going back to the question of same sex relationships, you know, trans relationships, the fundamental question is who is playing the traditional role of the woman in this relationship, meaning who is sacrificing of herself so that others will benefit? Right. And that and that's just a great question to ask, because you might not be playing the traditional role of a woman in your relationship.

Your husband might be or your wife might be. Yes. Or you're, you know, but like, who's the one who's giving so much that it's hurting them, which is the traditional role of women, which is how you are taught to be a good woman. Yes. Which is a trap. Yes, a trap. I have a friend and I'm like, we have got to get out of the good woman trap.

We've got to get out of the good girl trap. We've got to get out of the good mother trap. We've got to get out of the good wife trap like all of anything with the.

Word good in front of it. Yes. So sated.

With women. What you were trained is. What that means is that you do not have a self. And I have a beloved goddaughter who just graduated from high school. And I gave her this ring. I collect vintage rings, and I gave her a vintage ring of mine that's called a gypsy ring. And they're from like the Georgian area.

And I think I'm betting I think this is my personal theory about them, but they're meant to signify that you will never get married.

Oh, wow.

I need to get you one, Marie. They're meant to signify that you will never get married. And when you see it's a particular shaped ring, it's very specific. Like, if I see somebody where I'm like, oh, they've got one of those, And I sort of feel like maybe it was code for queer. I haven't seen this in any research, but I feel like what other possible.

How else? Where are you going to get away with not getting married as a man? Even? Yes, men wear them to signify. But anyway, I got one for my goddaughter, who's a big romantic like me, and who I have seen already go through a lot of drama and trauma around romance. Even in her young age, I see a lot of myself in her in ways that make me excited, in.

Ways that make me scared. Yes, yes, yes. And I and.

I wrote her a letter and I said, I told her what the origin of the ring was. And I said, this is, this ring is from about 1880, and this is what it signifies. But here's what I want you to understand about this. This doesn't mean that you can never get married. Obviously. Do what you want. Yeah, but my hope for you as your godmother, who's supposed to help you with your spiritual evolution, is that this ring signifies that there will always be something of yourself that you hold in reserve, that nobody gets to have.

Right. Wear it on your pinky finger to symbolize that you keep a pinky fingers worth of yourself to yourself like it is something held in reserve. They don't get to have all of you.

Yes.

Your children don't get to have all of you. Your partner doesn't get to have all of you. Your work doesn't get to have all of you. And this goes very much against everything that you are taught about, like, and listen, no, there's no fat high greater for me than the high of I want to disappear into you. But underneath that high and that desire is a central trauma that in my life expressed desires.

I don't want to be here. Like, I am so deeply uncomfortable in my body, in my earth school, in my unhealed trauma, in my damage. I don't want to be here. So I want to disappear into somebody so that I don't have to experience myself. Yeah, right. Feels really romantic, but it's actually really kind of tragic. And only now, only very recently, even now, six years into recovery and on this new spiritual journey that I've been on, have I been like, I kind of like being here.

You know what I mean? Yes, I like I'm glad I'm here. Yes.

I'm not trying to escape my day. I'm just having like a Friday morning and I'm happy to be here. Yes. And that is a miracle. Like any day when somebody with a mind like mine is happy where they are, it's a miracle.

Oh well that makes me thrilled because I'm so happy that you're here because I know that the alignments, they're so telling the truth and keeping secrets. It's such a big.

Theme throughout.

The entire book. I'm curious if there were any parts and you alluded to this a little bit before. You like, okay, I think this is going to be a poem book. You know what I mean? I think this is just going to be this verse. And was there any point in the journey where you were like, I don't know if I can share that?

Well, initially. Absolutely. Like in the immediate aftermath of his death, I was like, I'm not writing a book about Ria, ever. Like, I'm never, ever going to do this. I don't want to. I actually just need to move on from what was just the most traumatic thing I've ever been through, and I don't want to kick up any of this.

I also don't want to kick up anybody's opinions about any of this, right? I also don't want to deal with any of the players who were involved. Like I just yes, I want to get as far away from this as I can. And God's like, okay, try to get as far.

Away from this as you can. I mean, again, that God who loves freedom was like, oh, you want to go to India? So I went to India. You know, I fell in love with someone else. I'm like, I'm going to go fall in love with someone else.

God's like, great, why don't you go do that? Like, why don't you do a lot of ayahuasca, go to India and.

Follow someone else?

Fortunately, all of those things collapsed really quickly, you know? And then this story just kept pulsing. Yes. You know, like it. I wanted to get away from it, but it didn't get away from me. And so that's when I was like, well, I'll write this as a novel. I'm a novelist. Yeah. Like I'll write this as, like, a ghost story.

And and it'll be like a short, little brief novella. Very spare.

I'll write this in a very spare way.

And. And I did that in the book is not. It's. I like that book, but I sent it to my agent when I was done with it and said, I just wrote a book, but don't show it to anybody because I don't think this is it. And then, and then I wrote City of Girls. Yes. And then I wrote another novel, The Snow Forest.

And then that didn't get published for other reasons, but it will be someday. And then and then the story still is like.

So it was hanging out. It was like.

It's like you can go write two other books.

Right? Am I next? Oh, not not right now, but.

I'm just going to be as patient as infinity.

Yes. And I'm just going to sit.

Here not going away. And then I wrote it and then I was like, I'll write it as poetry. And then I wrote it as poetry and actually sold that book, and was going to publish that book. And then when it came time to edit it, I looked at it and I'm like, this is such a dodge. Like you're writing about the feelings, but not about what happened.

Like, this is all about how it fell and nothing about what occurred. I had like a two page introduction to the book of poetry that was like.

So this is about like me and my partner and I loved her, but also some weird shit went down. Don't really want to talk about it, but here's the poems. Thank you. I got to make it bigger, you know? And I was like, you can't.

Write about the person who was the most honest person you ever met in the entire world, who constantly said, fearlessly go straight to the white, hot, radioactive center of the truth. That's where your liberation will be found, which was Ray's whole thing. Yeah. And then not go to the right hot radiated, radioactive center of the truth. You just can't.

You got to do it or don't do it. But I actually at one point was like, I can't not do this. And then once I started writing with that sort of spirit. Yes. Which is where we're leaving nothing out. Yes. There were a couple moments in the book where I'm like, are we doing?

Are we really doing this?

And like, yeah, we're really doing this.

Yes. And I just thought it was such a beautiful I felt the immediacy and the honesty in every page of places where you're like, hey, here's a portion. We're not going here because there's certain people involved that like, I'm it's not my story to tell or it's not the details that, you know, they're not the.

Only thing I won't talk about is other people's lives.

Absolutely. Yeah.

But I'll talk about mine and I'll talk about Reyes.

Yes. Yeah. And I think that the chapter like, what day is today? Oh, Gee, I don't want to give it away because I don't want to give away the punchline, but I will just I want to plant that little seed for you all you when you get to the chapter that what day is today? I was like again cinematic.

I saw it on the big screen and I laughed my ass off so hard. So thank you for that. And I'm gonna move right on.

Yes.

To the notion also of running out of road like we're running out of road and, and that was something that I think it's like, I don't know if you said that phrase to me the night of the party at the apartment, but it was it was in that vein that you said, Marie, we don't have much time.

You had to do this fast.

Yeah.

And we're all running out of road, right? And then feeding crackers to lions. I just want to thank you for that gift as well. And if we want to talk about that or anything, it was just like your ability to be so real and transparent and detailed about the actual things that happened when she passed was it was a real gift, and it felt it brought me who I didn't know her nearly as like I only met her once or twice, but it it made me get her on such a visceral and it just I was cheering for her, to be quite honest.

Yeah.

And you know, people at this oncologist that I worked with said people die the way they live. And I'm also thinking about the great Indian sage Ramana. Ramana maharshi, who said, that you should meditate on your death every day. It's a big practice. Memento mori. The idea of, like, looking at a skull. You should. You should be thinking about death all the time.

And and you should be preparing to die all the time. Because we are of the nature to die. So the Buddhists, we are of the nature to live in a body that will decay. We're going to die. And that's something that you should meditate on. But where I think I don't want to say where I was off that night that I met you at the penthouse, when I said, we don't have a lot of time.

We're running out of road. I suspect that you felt energetic. Urgency? Yes, totally. And urgency, I have now learned, is very symptomatic of an addict mind. It's always that. It's always an emergency. With an addict. It's always urgent. It's always. There's always a desperate quality. And I have lived my life with a sense until very recently, of tremendous urgency, where there was an awareness that we don't have a lot of time.

And there's this idea that I've got to fill that time with as much as I can possibly do, because, oh my God, we're all going to die. Which is not, I think, what Maharishi meant when he said, meditate on your death. I don't think he meant get urgent. This is also why I have sort of an issue with bucket lists, because they feel panicked to me.

Right. And like live every day like it's your last. Like that fills me with panic. Yes.

Me too.

Although if it was my last day and I was, I can honestly say if I knew if someone said this is your last day, I'd be like, let's just keep talking, Marie, till the clock runs out. Yeah. You know, and now there's a sense of when you tap into. The eternal the urgency drops. Right. Like the only way for me to drop that urgency is to pull back and just be like, yeah, this human life has an expiration date.

I don't know what that date is. But there's something that doesn't end even if this planet ends, there's something that doesn't end and there's no hurry for anything. You got all the time in the universe. Like when I first met what I call my higher power. That was the message I kept being told, like, sorry, chill.

You got. You got, You got so much time. Yeah. Your soul is infinite and eternal. Don't worry about it. You don't have to get it all in one right. You don't have to get it all in this lifetime. You don't have to get it all done in this week. Like it's good, you know? So my hope is like as I continue to relax into non urgency, into like I may or may not see the seven wonders of the world like I may or may not have another great love story.

Actually, when I hear that I'm like, Please God, I may not have.

Another great love story. I don't know if I can survive another great love story, right?

Like I may or may not have a bucket list where everything gets done. Yeah. You know, but can I, in this moment, not feel urgency thrumming through my body? Because that is an uncomfortable feeling that is another word for that is anxiety. And I don't want to live my life thrumming with anxiety anymore. Yes, I love that.

But Raya died the way she lived. She died. She died violently. She lived violently. She was a, like a homeless drug addict for a lot of her life. Like she died independently. Stubbornly. Like an Aries. Yes. Like not cooperatively.

Like, you know, she didn't make it.

She didn't wake up every day and be like, how can I make life easier for my caregivers?

Yeah. Yeah. She just was like, nope.

I'm going out in flames the way I lived. Yeah. And that was her. And it was very authentic. And I feel like she got to do that. You get to you get to live authentically and you get to die authentically.

The moment of peace and joy at the end, the reflection of the expression that came over her face that brought me to tears when I read that because.

It.

In other accounts, things that I've been privy to, conversations, witnessing, things. There is a little bit of a thread there around some type of momentary shift that is observable to people, and I just felt everything in my body felt like a sense of peace when when you wrote that part too, and I was like again cheering.

Yeah thanks Marie. Yeah thank you. I think to be with somebody when they die is such a sacred privilege. And it was such a mystical moment and it was not how I planned it lol. Yeah. I had, I planned like a real yogi's death. Sorry. She making noises.

Oh, no. I'm also. It's great. She's. Yeah. Do you want.

To come up here and be quiet? I advertised you as quiet.

What's all this camping about?

This is.

Papeete. Is just like wants to be at. Listen, when. When chum is around and there's a conversation. Kuma is like. But why aren't you talking to me? And like, why? Why am I not? So you're welcome.

It's exactly right.

Right. You should be, And when you said there's a shift that happens. So. So, yeah, I've. I had some sort of gauzy idea, like a gauzy, soft lit, Vaseline lensed idea of, like, a beautiful death. Yeah, that I was, I mean, it I was going to orchestrate and that is not what we what we got. Yeah. Because I couldn't orchestrate anything about Raya.

Nobody could. Nobody could control Raya.

Cancer couldn't even control Raya.

They told her she was going to die in six months. And she got 18 months the entire time smoking, doing drugs, drinking and being in it.

You know what I mean? I can't like, can't like not from juicing. Did she get that extra year? Yeah. Yeah. You know, she got that. She got that next year from cocaine. You know like. Yes. And and she. But that was Raya. Yes. You know like that was.

Raised life and that was raised death. And it was beautiful. Yeah. And it was perfect and it was a nightmare and it was glorious. Yeah. And it was a ride and I wouldn't have missed it for anything. And I can't wait to never do anything like that again.

So T am never doing anything like, so when we were texting and then you're like, hey, I just did this retreat in darkness. I was like, wait, what list? Like what? What's going on? I know this is a little bit of a left turn, but I thought that that was really fascinating. And I wondered if you could speak a little bit about what you did.

Like what prompted you? Yeah. To say yes to doing or retreat in darkness and and what that was like for you.

You know, this feeling and I know this feeling. And I bet others do, too. Called a full body.

Yes. Yeah. Oh, apps. A friend, Lolo.

A friend of mine a couple years ago said, oh, I just did this like three day retreat where I went into total darkness in a cave, in solitude, in isolation. And I was like, oh yeah, I'm doing. I'll be doing that. I'll be doing.

That. Now. You're like, May I please have those details? Like right away, where? How?

Sign me up. And I think, you know, with something like that, you either hear about that and you're like, God, no. Or where do I sign up? Where do I sign up? Yeah. And I my body was a where do I sign up to do this? I actually did I did it for five days. Because I'm.

Because that's you. Because you're Liz.

Gilbert. Come on. I still do love chasing intense mag. And.

So what I did it. What it was. It's this place in Oregon called Sky Cave Retreats. And they basically my friend's daughter was like, all year. She's like, what, are they throwing you in the hole again?

They, text Neal, like, how did you poop? Where'd you go to the bathroom? Like, I was like, I want the details. What's going on? It's quite. I mean, it's a very nice hole. It's like, you know, there's a.

Bed and there's a toilet and there's a bathtub, and then once a day, they bring you food through this black box in the wall and check on you to make sure you're not having a psychotic break, okay? But otherwise, you're in complete and absolute darkness. Like you can't see your hand in front of your face and silence because it's underground.

Wow. So there's no way to track time and there's no way to track space. And I was told by by my higher power to do it. And I was scared to do it. And I was told, there's treasures for you in here, and there's treasures. I can't get to you any other way. I'm going to need your full, undivided attention for five days.

We're just going to talk. It's a lot that I want to tell you, and there's a lot that I need you to see, and I need you to. I needed there to be nothing that can distract you, like I couldn't for me to go somewhere without a notebook and not be able to write is, I mean, put me in a room with a notebook.

I'm happy forever. That's where I live, you know? But not even that, you know, like, not even that. So just you can't reach for anything. And what I saw was, we are so not alone. Like, you can't be alone.

Like if you tried because I tried.

Go, go put yourself in a dark hole like the number of entities.

That came to visit me.

My dead grandmother came to visit me. Richard from Texas from eat, pray, love, who died in 2010, came to visit me and coached me through some of the really difficult moments. God was with me the entire time. Like ancestors, angels, presences. There was not a single and it was difficult and it was arduous and sometimes it was boring.

It wasn't that boring, though, that the guy who orchestrated it said, in his experience, people who are capable of feeling do not get bored. Good rule of life in general if you are capable of feeling. But I had a lot of feelings that were really uncomfortable, a lot of grief. Anxiety, fear, anger, you know, like all the big hot feelings came up and there was nothing that came up that wasn't met with love.

There was nothing that came up that wasn't instantly. There wasn't something there that was like, we love you. We've got you. We see that you're in this difficult point and we have guidance for you, you know, and we're with you. So it was an amazing thing to learn. I feel coming out of it more grounded than I've ever felt in my life, like more calm and more just like, oh, it's all good.

You know, whatever's going on here, you are so loved, to quote my sticker that I always.

Give to everybody.

You are so loved. You are not. You are so supported. You are so supported by so many unimaginable souls. So. And I don't ever want to do it again.

And I don't need to do it again. Yes, you did it.

And I don't need to do it again. But to go as a curiosity for me. Like if you took everything away, what's left is what I wanted to see. And, what was left was love and support. That's all there is. The only thing going on here. They didn't send you here to this earth school. That is a very challenging earth school with no support and no guidance and no love like they it the cosmos knew that what you are about it is so brave to be born.

There's not a single person you're ever going to meet. I don't care how much privilege somebody holds who will get to the end of their life and be like that was easy.

That's so easy.

I don't know what a big deal. Yeah, but I found that to be very straightforward. I found I found this to just go kind of how I was expecting it to go like this. No surprises there. Nope.

And you know what? I was good at everything.

I was just really good at everything. And everything came very naturally to me. I didn't see really just oh, fuck. No.

I didn't experience any particular challenges. Everything was like, just no.

Like straight A's all the way. Whatever. Hashtag overachiever. Yeah.

Nailed it in one.

No one. I said no one ever, ever to quote, you know, like no one.

No one. And they they didn't send you here without support. Yeah. Because they were like, you sure you want to do this? Yes. You know, because this is really brave that there's a, there's a Hindu tradition that says that I studied when I was at the ashram in India that says that. Right. Like somewhere around like a few months into gestation, the because what happens when you gestate?

This is their theory. And I think it's adorable.

And I love it.

Like at the moment that you take form into that cluster of cells to decide to be born, you forget why you decided to do this.

Right? It's told like that, like it's like.

A valid black memory once.

You have the whole thing planned. Yeah. Then. And then it's like, yeah. And you're just like, Just floating around in the void. And I don't know like I'm not a nothing, I'm a nothing. And then right like somewhere along the way essentially and this is an.

Ancient idea long before there was film. But they show you everything that's going to happen.

In your life. And then there's the and then the panic starts and there's the paddock starts. And that's the first kick that a baby gives is like, no, I don't want to do it here. Oh my God, why don't I kill myself? Oh my god. No. You know. And then what this is saying there is that they give you.

And that's why babies are born crying. Yeah. Like I like they. Can I take this back? Like, too late. Like you signed up for the ride. Take it off, take it off.

The ride like you're in. You went on that shoot.

And you're going, you know.

But they, they also say that there's this, there's this one mantra, there's this one meditation that all humans are given, which is the sound of breath, which is hamsa. So it's like.

Inhale out hell. And hamsa in Sanskrit means I am that. So all you have to do is take a breath in and a breath out and remember that you are the infinite, you are the eternal. Like this is a story that you're in. But like your true soul is, is that of the everything. And that's all you're going to need.

That first breath and that second inhale in the exhale and you'll be all right.

Oh it's so sweet.

It's so sweet and it's so fun and love it. And I love you. And I want to I want to thank you. I have like two little quick lightning round questions. But I just to put a button on this y'all. You got to get your paws on all the way to the river. Get it for you and your friends.

It is just so gorgeous. I'm so grateful for you on this planet. And then we get to do this little version of Earth School circling round. And for Pepita, the sleeping princess right there. Who is.

She.

Established? Just like now. I can rest.

Now I can rest. I don't have to defend anybody from the elevator sounds anymore.

We're all good. New York City. So, best life upgrade you made in the past year. Like, it could be something you discovered. Something you stopped doing. A small purchase, a big purchase, something you kept doing. Is there any good life upgrade? I always love asking people this because sometimes folks have discoveries. I'm like, how did you hear about that?

They're like, I don't know. And then it becomes.

That's a good question. I would say I stopped buying meat.

You stopped buying.

Meat. I haven't stopped eating meat because I always want to be a good guest. Yeah. And and if and if a person makes a meal and puts it in front of me, I will eat it because I think it's an act of love to eat whatever you're served. Okay. And I learned that in India, too. It's like food is sacred.

Somebody's offering the food of their culture. Yes. I am never going to say no to whatever I like. I've eaten practically raw frogs in Laos. Like, yeah, whatever. Yes. Yeah. So but I will I will not purchase me any more. Okay. Because I don't want to feed into the algorithm of the meat industry. Amazing. With my money, I love it.

There's no meat in my house. I don't order meat in a restaurant. But last night I was at Margaret's house, and her almost 90 year old Italian mother made meatballs. And there's no way I'm.

Not eating that. I was, and it's also Margaret's coming out.

It's Margaret's mother, and it's like I've eaten at her table since I was a college student. And so I will receive that as a gift.

Yes, but these people are great.

Is no more buying me.

Okay, good. And tell Margaret I said hi. I'm gonna send her a text and send her love. Oh, okay. So you.

And you met.

Palmer? Yes, yes. Yeah. Amazing. I mean, you go into Palmer's house and not eating that.

I was just going to say I'm like, I'm your.

Eat that. No, no, that would get slapped.

Like, you know what I mean? This is going to get a slap. Anything that you are super looking forward to enthusiastic about over, like, the next six months.

Well, actually I'm taking it's actually at the end of the next six months, I'm taking a six month sabbatical, which I have never done, and I will be not writing, not teaching. I'll still do my Substack. And that's it. And I'm going to go to Costa Rica for several months sweep, and I'm going to go with Pepita.

Yeah. And we're both going to learn some Spanish. Great. I'm not going to be Liz Gilbert for six months.

That version of list like that.

I'm not me. Put this way, I'm not going to be Elizabeth Gilbert for. There we go. I'll be like, always. But I'm not going to be Elizabeth Gilbert.

This is so it's actually really, really cool because I've been investigating for myself and I've been having some really wonderful conversations, like just around like, and this is going to sound so maybe who knows what it sounds. I don't care, like Marie Forleo, just because that's been the brand and I'm like, well, it's the one thing about me that's probably never going to change, you know what I mean?

It's like instead of naming it a company is decision I made way back and I've just been poking around like, oh, what what portion of of me is like, you know, your version of Elizabeth Gilbert versus like, this other piece, like the nine year old version of me I was talking to you about off camera that me and my best friend Chris, and we're just like, oh my God, we're like pre-teen girls, you know, running around dancing and playing.

And you know what? Our coloring and cooking and stuff like that. So it's I love that you are giving yourself that. That is awesome. Thank you. That is super.

Super excited about it.

I'm like this for you.

I'm like super excited about it.

Yeah, yeah, it'll be really cool. Great. Anything else that you want to leave us with today?

I love you guys. Oh, and you know what? You really are loved. Like, whatever. Like, you really are loved and you really are possessed of infinite power. Another thing that I really saw when I was in that cave was that what I call God kept saying to me, if you had any idea how much power everybody contains, how incredible people are, how powerful people's souls are, how creative, how resourceful, you would never worry about anybody again.

You would never worry about anyone. Because to worry about people is so degrading to them and to you. And I want you to start seeing how incredible people are and and how much they can handle the incarnation that they showed up for. They really can. You don't have to worry about it. They got it. And so to you.

It's freedom right there. A lot of freedom. I love you so.

I love them I right formulas, things like that.

Thank you. Thank you Pepita and thank you for being here with us. We love you.

She just wants to say you're welcome for protecting her from elevators.

Hey, if you love this video, you need to watch this one next. Trust me on that.

‍